NBA: Why Ben Simmons is NOT the #1 prospect in teh land ...

[Killakobe81]

DFW is solid. If I move from San Antonio it will either be to Dallas or Austin. More than likely Dallas though, actually having my bachelor party there this week.

Congrats brother!! Still waiting on our bet to be paid off ...i know math wise it's not over but no way we catch the T-pups even though they are fading. Marriage is great, but tough. Enjoy the party. Resist the temptations once you get married especially if you move out here ...so many pretty women. Not cali quality although so many have moved here from there and LA etc.
And a piece of marriage advice even if she trusts you she will look through your phone, email if you leave it open, wallet. They cant help it. A wise woman once told me they are just naturally insecure even if they have no reason to be. If they look and find nothing it re-assures them you are a good man and you can count on her to ride or die. If she looks and finds dirt even something as small as a flirty email or text with an ex ... it will feed that insecurity.

[Killakobe81]

Right now Matthews' contract surely looks bad, and yeah giving him that extra money was ing re ed , but I will wait until next season to call it a failure.

Contracts based on past performance are even more re ed though and that's not what the Mavs did. They are not paying for what he did in Portland, they just made a gamble. Whether he was going to live up to it or not was unclear at the time. With your kirby though everybody knew he was done and was never gonna live up to his contract and all you have to show for it are two season as the cellar dweller of the western conference 48.5 has been far more damaging than Matthews contract can ever be

To your point about Cuban, while I'm not the biggest fan of the guy either, as far as owners go he's still one of the best. I just wish he wouldn't get involved so much in the basketball decisions.

Gamble sure on a guy coming off a devastating injury that pretty much ended careers for players better than Wes. But OK. I get it.
Saying Kobe's was more damaging ...really doesnt help your argument tbh. But I have picked on the Mavs enough today and we surely have our own problems with the Lakers. I actually like when the Mavs are decent cuz I live here in DFW. I think I will attend your own sweep at the AAC vs the Dubs or the spurs if the Mavs make the playoffs which I expect. Good luck either way.

[JMarkJohns]

Curry is ball dominant because he can shoot from anywhere and has proven able and willing to make the right pass. Simmons cannot/has not.

I wasn't comparing the two in skill. I understand the differences. The point is, Simmons isn't a finished product by any stretch. He already has demonstrated some level of ball handling, vision, and facilitation at age 18 that suggests as skills develop, the concerns people are over analyzing now will seem pretty silly.

Give him his rookie contract, then complain.

But to basically say, as some are, that you wouldn't take a 6-10 athlete with a quality PG skillset because at age 18 his college team sucks and he's ball dominant and he can't shoot is foolish.

Ingram is good, but he's as much of a prospect for different reasons and he's more traditional in position and overall skillset. Simmons is that quirky talent with the potential to impact a game uniquely, creating mismatches.

Eye of the beholder, but there's an Ingram type in almost every draft.

Simmons, not so much.

The real reasons all of you hate him is he's been promoted ad nauseam. If his skills had been celebrated organically, and his talent caught you all by surprise, he'd have more fans.

But he's been stuffed down your throats and so you want to see him fail.

Which is fine, but that's a silly reason to belittle someone.

Now, is he a perfect prospect? no.

I don't expect transcendence. But he could be a very special player.

But whatever. I was one of, if not the first to break down his game for everyone on this board. I've watched his games for a while now. He's a very intriguing talent. I'd really like to see him with a coach like Brad Stevens.

[JMarkJohns]

Being an LSU alumni, I watched just about every game Simmons played this year. The kid has raw talent, but not once did he take over a game down the stretch. He has no killer instinct. It didn't help that LSU's coach is possibly the worst one in college basketball. Such a disappointing season after such high expectations.

This is very true. But maybe he simply doesn't know how to take over games yet? Properly taking over a game isn't having the mentality that despite being a bad shooter, that you're just gonna keep shooting until things change.

Maybe what many consider a weakness is actually a strength in that he is self aware, knowing his own limitations and not dominating to them.

Get him some sort of shot-Doctor and give him a few years.

With all of the zones allowed in college, it's not always the best place for a non-shooter to shine. Especially one with mediocre teammates and a crappy head coach.

[MultiTroll]

In the Mathews / Jordan / Cuban / Kobme debate.

1. Mathews signing was re ed, but is at least salvageable next few seasons.
2. Jordan bolting, nothing mereticious about it at all. Spineless.
Does not make Cuban an idiot, makes Jordan a jellyfish.
3. Kobmes contract still among the WOAT, if not the worst. From a basketball point of view. However, Lakers Inc is not about basketball, rather it is an entertainment / religious cult business. With empty seats such as had not been seen since 1993, the Fakeshow and Kobme had to go with the *Farewell Tour*.

It worked, seat sales to cultists shot up after LakerKobme Inc announced the tour.

[140]

Gamble sure on a guy coming off a devastating injury that pretty much ended careers for players better than Wes. But OK. I get it.
Saying Kobe's was more damaging ...really doesnt help your argument tbh. But I have picked on the Mavs enough today and we surely have our own problems with the Lakers. I actually like when the Mavs are decent cuz I live here in DFW. I think I will attend your own sweep at the AAC vs the Dubs or the spurs if the Mavs make the playoffs which I expect. Good luck either way.

Thanks, good luck in the lottery

[140]

In the Mathews / Jordan / Cuban / Kobme debate.

1. Mathews signing was re ed, but is at least salvageable next few seasons.
2. Jordan bolting, nothing mereticious about it at all. Spineless.
Does not make Cuban an idiot, makes Jordan a jellyfish.
3. Kobmes contract still among the WOAT, if not the worst. From a basketball point of view. However, Lakers Inc is not about basketball, rather it is an entertainment / religious cult business. With empty seats such as had not been seen since 1993, the Fakeshow and Kobme had to go with the *Farewell Tour*.

It worked, seat sales to cultists shot up after LakerKobme Inc announced the tour.

Multi

[Killakobe81]

This is very true. But maybe he simply doesn't know how to take over games yet? Properly taking over a game isn't having the mentality that despite being a bad shooter, that you're just gonna keep shooting until things change.

Maybe what many consider a weakness is actually a strength in that he is self aware, knowing his own limitations and not dominating to them.

Get him some sort of shot-Doctor and give him a few years.

With all of the zones allowed in college, it's not always the best place for a non-shooter to shine. Especially one with mediocre teammates and a crappy head coach.

great points. you taking ingram if Suns win lotto and you are GM? I am leaning the other way but Simmons is in the clubhouse ...Ingram can change perspectives if Duke makes a deep run.

[JMarkJohns]

I'm taking Simmons at #1 and have no reservations.

I think he alongside Booker in a pic/roll with Knight spotting up could be crazy good in time.

I will happily take Ingram if they get #2, or ecstatically take Simmons if someone at #1 is an idiot.

But I'm planning on Dragan Bender at 3/4/5.

[Killakobe81]

I'm taking Simmons at #1 and have no reservations.

I think he alongside Booker in a pic/roll with Knight spotting up could be crazy good in time.

I will happily take Ingram if they get #2, or ecstatically take Simmons if someone at #1 is an idiot.

But I'm planning on Dragan Bender at 3/4/5.

I worded the above wrong im leaning Simmons but open to Ingram changing my mind. Last year pre tourney most were saying oakafor and kat was the better choice ...can Ingram do the same?

[JMarkJohns]

Ingram isn't Durant. Right now he's more of a finisher, and I've not seen that much to suggest he's going to be a #1 on a team. Whereas Simmons may not be the #1 scorer, but he's so unique he can have same impact without excessive shots.

Pair him with someone like Booker, who is an elite passing SG, and has possible #1 scorer mentality, and that could be a damn scary combo.

But for just any team? 76ers need so much help, and have already take. So many bugs, I just don't know.

[DPG21920]

Simmons for the Lakers is way different than Simmons for other teams. LA's young guys aren't really shooters (Russ is solid I guess) and Russ has the look of a ball dominant guard. So you are either relegating Russ to a spot up off the ball guy or Simmons who can't shoot.

[RsxPiimp]

Simmons for the Lakers is way different than Simmons for other teams. LA's young guys aren't really shooters (Russ is solid I guess) and Russ has the look of a ball dominant guard. So you are either relegating Russ to a spot up off the ball guy or Simmons who can't shoot.

+1. though you always take the BPA, i think given the opportunity, the lakers should draft ingram. plus he has intangibles simmons seems to lack.

[DMC]

Not an interesting story unless you're a perpetual lottery team.. oh wait.

[Killakobe81]

Simmons for the Lakers is way different than Simmons for other teams. LA's young guys aren't really shooters (Russ is solid I guess) and Russ has the look of a ball dominant guard. So you are either relegating Russ to a spot up off the ball guy or Simmons who can't shoot.

I think sixers and Lakers are in a similar boat. The question is should Oak (or Noel/Embiid) stop them from taking Simmons and for the lakers it's Randle/Nance. Russ doesnt change the needle either way tbh. Russ and Simmons already played HS ball together and remain close. I doubt they would have a problem playing together since Simmons only really likes to handle the ball in the post and in transition. Now that may be the coach's fault ...but he is no problem for the Suns and less one for the Lakers than the sixers. but I am not sure how you play Randle and Simmons together if neither improves significantly from outside. But if I was pulling the strings for the Lakers I take Simmons and you build up Nace or Randle for a trade if simmons cant play SF you take BPA unless it's close then you go for fit and or big as the tiebreaker. It would definitely take a better coach than Byron for it to work though ...

[DPG21920]

+1. though you always take the BPA, i think given the opportunity, the lakers should draft ingram. plus he has intangibles simmons seems to lack.

Lakers need a ton of stuff, but IMO, high character guys are a must. I know many Laker fans won't admit it, but what Kobe and Byron are doing is toxic especially for younger players. Yanking them around, making things a circus, building losing habits, making it all about one guy, etc..

They also need talent and fit and they have to decide who they are building around. Another thing is Randle. They seem to use him like a Simmons-lite. If you bring him in, where does that leave Randle and his one skill that sort of stands out?

[JMarkJohns]

Simmons for the Lakers is way different than Simmons for other teams. LA's young guys aren't really shooters (Russ is solid I guess) and Russ has the look of a ball dominant guard. So you are either relegating Russ to a spot up off the ball guy or Simmons who can't shoot.

That makes sense. Similar for Philly.

But I'd say those teams rather than draft Ingram should explore trade options for Simmons, as I'm sure a team like Boston or Phoenix would be willing to part with quite a bit from their surplus.

Right now I'm sure only Booker and Len are untouchable.

Warren/2016 Suns 1st/2016 Wizards 1st (both lottery)?

I'd happily include Knight or Bledsoe but that's probably not happening.

[DPG21920]

That makes sense. Similar for Philly.

But I'd say those teams rather than draft Ingram should explore trade options for Simmons, as I'm sure a team like Boston or Phoenix would be willing to part with quite a bit from their surplus.

Right now I'm sure only Booker and Len are untouchable.

Warren/2016 Suns 1st/2016 Wizards 1st (both lottery)?

I'd happily include Knight or Bledsoe but that's probably not happening.

We all know, especially for teams like LA, they can't take short cuts. They have to learn how to draft and value the draft especially since they no longer appear to be a FA destination. They aren't going to get good over night unless things REALLY break their way which is highly unlikely.

I would only consider trading the pick if they can get a very young talent that they have already seen have some success. Drafting is risky for sure and even with high picks. But you better be damn sure you don't pass on a young, cheap franchise cornerstone just to get a guy who doesn't move the needle short/long-term because of name value.

But it's obviously something LA needs to consider depending on their goal (get to playoffs as quickly as possible or build a team over time) and on how FA goes

[Killakobe81]

The question is Simmons truly better than Ingram? or Bender? I say yes. but I feel less sure after the way he finished the year. and it wasnt all LSU like Wiggins a few years back you are waiting for this dude with all this talent to take over and it did not happen enough. Great that he is unselfish but as the best player you have a responsibility to your team to exert your will on key games.

Still taking him regardless of fit.

[DPG21920]

The question isn't as much of "is player x better than player y" but "how good is the best player available that we can pick". If the best you get is a Wiggins type, that's not bad, but if that's the case IMO you look to trade if someone is paying superstar price.

If it's a Duncan/Shaq/Bron/Durant level player, then you can't trade them.

[Killakobe81]

We all know, especially for teams like LA, they can't take short cuts. They have to learn how to draft and value the draft especially since they no longer appear to be a FA destination. They aren't going to get good over night unless things REALLY break their way which is highly unlikely.

I would only consider trading the pick if they can get a very young talent that they have already seen have some success. Drafting is risky for sure and even with high picks. But you better be damn sure you don't pass on a young, cheap franchise cornerstone just to get a guy who doesn't move the needle short/long-term because of name value.

But it's obviously something LA needs to consider depending on their goal (get to playoffs as quickly as possible or build a team over time) and on how FA goes

Why would Laker fans defend Byron? He has been terrible. As for Kobe even the most supportive of Laker media and SOME fans have said the farewell tour has been a blessing (they see what hard work can bring) but more of a curse (no chance to develop fully while Kobe is adored) for the Lakers youth. The shaky mins etc. But as I said when russ started playing well Lou Will is more a detriment because he is even more of an iso player than broken down Kobe at this point.

I posted this article but it's still just one side of a story. SI posted an article about him and Porzy and also mentioned the reality film crew but they did not destroy his character like YAhoo did. Either way it will be interesting to hear what more scouts think as the draft approaches.

As for the Lakers I agree they should be patient and build the right way. I also agree Deeps they shouldnt trade until they have a chance to see what they have. Randle is basically a rook and I wouldnt trade simmons unless it was a for young proven star but not one like cousins because that would be worse for this young core than this season has been.

[Killakobe81]

The question isn't as much of "is player x better than player y" but "how good is the best player available that we can pick". If the best you get is a Wiggins type, that's not bad, but if that's the case IMO you look to trade if someone is paying superstar price.

If it's a Duncan/Shaq/Bron/Durant level player, then you can't trade them.

realistically the only somewhat superstar on the market is maybe Cousins?
Out of the guys you mentioned only Shaq was ever truly traded (lebroin was Heat sign and trade but that was for cap reasons and so that Cavs could get SOMETHING instead of nothing) Most true superstars do not get traded until they are past their prime ...

I have been preaching patience for the past two years.

Mark this down. Lakers please just say no to:

DeRozan, Barnes etc. at max money. If they want to take a below max but still significant deal to help be the face of the Lakers cool. If not let some other squad waste the money. No matter WHO the Lakers sign they wont win a chip next year even if Russ /Randle take a leap in the off-season and we get Simmons and he devlops a jumper..
SO ... no need to to be in a rush to pay non franchise guys max dollars. Keep building around young guys and eventually the right FA will come. but the lakers and their fans need to be patient.

I have seen some homers dream about:

Russ
Clarkson
Durant
Simmons
Randle

Sure that team can score but it STILL wouldnt win without more defense and a better coach. Great passing, scoring and rebounding though.

[DPG21920]

realistically the only somewhat superstar on the market is maybe Cousins?
Out of the guys you mentioned only Shaq was ever truly traded (lebroin was Heat sign and trade but that was for cap reasons and so that Cavs could get SOMETHING instead of nothing) Most true superstars do not get traded until they are past their prime ...

I have been preaching patience for the past two years.

Mark this down. Lakers please just say no to:

DeRozan, Barnes etc. at max money. If they want to take a below max but still significant deal to help be the face of the Lakers cool. If not let some other squad waste the money. No matter WHO the Lakers sign they wont win a chip next year even if Russ /Randle take a leap in the off-season and we get Simmons and he devlops a jumper.. SO need to to be in a rush to pay non franchise guys max dollars. Keep building around young guys and eventually the right FA will come. but the lakers and their fans need to be patient.

I'm not even saying trade for a superstar. Something like 2nd pick for really solid young player and the 8th pick. Probably can still nab a good player and get another too. If you can't land a star, might as well cash in as much as possible.

[Killakobe81]

I'm not even saying trade for a superstar. Something like 2nd pick for really solid young player and the 8th pick. Probably can still nab a good player and get another too. If you can't land a star, might as well cash in as much as possible.

I would rather have the Wiggins type personally. a good #2 is hard to find. If both Druss and simmons are #2's that is fine we will have a great third option when we can finally get a true#1. No deal.

[DPG21920]

It will be interesting to see how Simmons ends up. Is he Lebron? Lamar Odom? So much depends on his drive and work ethic (and coaching/player development environment). Big year for LA.