Tough Personal Summer for Pop

[mbass]

Okay, just stop. The main reason why cancer is more common is actually due to how much better our health care is. We are living longer, and cancer drastically increases the older we get. That is your answer, right there. I am sure things like regular use of alcohol increases the chance of cancer. But the real reason is we living longer, and diagnosing it correctly and quickly.

Correct - cancer is really a disease of aging. However, certain chemicals in the environment probably contribute to the onset of the disease - as does heredity.

[Slomo]

Yes, you get assigned to your local clinic and a doctor within that clinic. I guess you could ask for another doctor in that clinic, but you can't go to another clinic. That is socialized medicine. You go to the clinic in your neighbourhood and only the clinic in your neighbourhood. Unless you have a referral. From the clinic in your neighbourhood.

Only true in UK?. Elsewhere (continental EU) You are free to chose your doctor and/or clinic. People do tend to stay with their appointed personal doctor, but are free to change that. In case of dissatisfaction you can ask for a second opinion by a doctor of your own choosing. I have a hard time believing that it is not the case in the UK.

Most healthcare systems in Europe still allow for private, paid-for medical services. But state systems establish the universal baseline and quite of few of them are pretty good.

Define quality. Waiting a month to get an appointment for a sinus infection? Wellness visits are unheard of, along with the majority of preventative care that we expect in the States. They hand out canes like they are candy because it's useless trying to get into a podiatrist or knee/hip specialist. Thankfully my company provides private insurance for those times when I can't wait a month or need to see a specialist.

Over dramatic (and limited to UK?)
For life threatening diseases and painful states you don't wait.
My daughter broke her left forearm with a compound fracture of both bones and was in front of a doctor within 20 minutes (including transport to the hospital). She was stabilized and checked in immediately. Surgery took place the next day because she had eaten that evening. All that on basic free healthcare in a system that I will be the first to admit has room for a lot of improvement (and to be fair some are happening - maybe not fast enough).
It is true that for less urgent stuff you get bumped but with every effort made to minimize life quality impact. Not ideal but in the grand scheme of things acceptable.

When you say Sweden and Norway have better healthcare, you need to be more specific. Norway specifically has a worse cancer rate than the US and neither lead Europe in life expectancy. They have a substantially higher suicide rate than the major countries in Southern Europe like Greece, Italy, France and Spain. I think a lot of people buy into those memes floating around about how free and happy everything is there.

You are generalizing just as much as the guy you are accusing of doing it. The higher cancer rate in Norway is more a result of their lifestyle than the system. The suicide rate in Scandinavian countries is a well do ented phenomenon and has little to do with the health care system.

I have lived and worked in many countries on 3 different continents and my purely subjective opinion is that the majority of EU health systems should be improved and have room to do so. They should follow the examples of the more successful ones too.

Pre Obamacare health system in the US was a disgrace "for the greatest country in the world" and is now marginally better. Obamacare (or a similar system) would do wonders for the health of US citizens if developed and improved further - but since so many people are dead set on destroying it for the wrong reasons (Own personal wealth&interests) I don't see it improving. Some of the arguments against a universal free health care system in the US are frankly just re ed.
I don't care what you've heard but affordable universal healthcare =/= Communism (actually the opposite could be argued).

I'm glad I'm not a citizen of South east Asia or Sub Saharan Africa.

Middle East is bad too, with some notable exceptions.

You might not like the above and I certainly will not Google meaningless stats to prove my points - as I said those are real life personal observations. Full disclosure: While I have worked for UK companies twice I have never done so in the UK, so I have not enjoyed the benefits of their system (according to you I should be glad I haven't).

[spurs10]

Only true in UK?. Elsewhere (continental EU) You are free to chose your doctor and/or clinic. People do tend to stay with their appointed personal doctor, but are free to change that. In case of dissatisfaction you can ask for a second opinion by a doctor of your own choosing. I have a hard time believing that it is not the case in the UK.

Most healthcare systems in Europe still allow for private, paid-for medical services. But state systems establish the universal baseline and quite of few of them are pretty good.



Over dramatic (and limited to UK?)
For life threatening diseases and painful states you don't wait.
My daughter broke her left forearm with a compound fracture of both bones and was in front of a doctor within 20 minutes (including transport to the hospital). She was stabilized and checked in immediately. Surgery took place the next day because she had eaten that evening. All that on basic free healthcare in a system that I will be the first to admit has room for a lot of improvement (and to be fair some are happening - maybe not fast enough).
It is true that for less urgent stuff you get bumped but with every effort made to minimize life quality impact. Not ideal but in the grand scheme of things acceptable.



You are generalizing just as much as the guy you are accusing of doing it. The higher cancer rate in Norway is more a result of their lifestyle than the system. The suicide rate in Scandinavian countries is a well do ented phenomenon and has little to do with the health care system.

I have lived and worked in many countries on 3 different continents and my purely subjective opinion is that the majority of EU health systems should be improved and have room to do so. They should follow the examples of the more successful ones too.

Pre Obamacare health system in the US was a disgrace "for the greatest country in the world" and is now marginally better. Obamacare (or a similar system) would do wonders for the health of US citizens if developed and improved further - but since so many people are dead set on destroying it for the wrong reasons (Own personal wealth&interests) I don't see it improving. Some of the arguments against a universal free health care system in the US are frankly just re ed.
I don't care what you've heard but affordable universal healthcare =/= Communism (actually the opposite could be argued).

I'm glad I'm not a citizen of South east Asia or Sub Saharan Africa.

Middle East is bad too, with some notable exceptions.

You might not like the above and I certainly will not Google meaningless stats to prove my points - as I said those are real life personal observations. Full disclosure: While I have worked for UK companies twice I have never done so in the UK, so I have not enjoyed the benefits of their system (according to you I should be glad I haven't).

Brilliant post! Just for the record- I was just in the UK and a friend of mine needed help for a "sinus infection." I went to a pub while he went without an appointment to his clinic. I hadn't finished my pint before he had come back with his prescriptions filled without any expense. And yes people certainly can spend to their heart's desire on private care. It is indeed true our "pre Obamacare health care system was a disgrace" and would be a lot better if not for the relentless attacks he has faced by the right-wing. Well said "just re ed."

[tmtcsc]

zPharma may fund some clinical trials but most of the research is done by university consortiums. Are you suggesting that the findings from clinical trials are biased against finding solutions to medical problems?? Afterall, most of our treatments come from the results of clinical trials - this is what is meant by evidence based medicine/

I think there's much more research dedicated to treating diseases rather than curing them. It's not just cancer either. To this date, there is no cure for post herpetic neuralgia (nerve damage resulting from shingles). Why is that? There are no less than a dozen pain management options to treat the pain but no cure. You can use anti-depressants, anti-covulsants, pain patches, and various opioids to treat the problem but you won't find anything that fixes it. Money keeps pouring in to find pharmaceutical treatments. Why not fund research for cures that directly fix the nerve problem?

[Dingle Barry]

Yeah... no. McD's, Burger King, KFC, Starbucks, Coke, Pepsi are everywhere over here in Europe and the locals line up to eat/drink that just like Americans do.

I said they have fewer lardasses, which is a fact. Nothing you wrote refutes my point.