Spurs are victims of the Golden Age of basketball

[ViceCity86]

How would the 99 Spurs fare in today's NBA with a perimeter cast of A.Johnson, Elie, ******, Kerr, Daniels, Kersey, Jackson?

FTR, 2014 Spurs would mopped 2005 Pistons seven man bandit off the floor. Superior roster and style of play.

Current Spurs roster 10-13 is better than Bulls 72 win team 7-10 players.

[james evans]

It's an efficient shot. It takes skill to shoot well. It spreads the defense. Teams play way harder defense now than they did in the 80s and 90s, and defense in the 90s was made easy by hand-checking and offenses were terrible. Both were pretty ugly until the mid 2000s and even then there were only a few teams who had consistent systems.

Basketball has never been a sport of consistency. You're just now seeing teams that are consistent two-way squads and play for a full 48. Just in the past half decade or so. Compare that to football, where players on 3 win teams play hard for pride for the most part, or basketball, which embraced advanced analytics long before the NBA ever thought about doing it.

It's not a coincidence that efficient, complex offenses are on the rise at the same time in-depth stats started being taken seriously in the sport. For too long it's been about individuals and 1 on 1 play.

you guys really don't know what handchecking was. You're under the impression, because you heard one person say it and it began to spread through the internet community, that handchecking meant grabbing and holding your opponent. NO!! It simply means what the name is. "handchecking". Handchecking will not keep your from getting crossed over. Handchecking will not keep you from ge ing dunked on. Handcheckign will not keep you from hitting a 3. It just means you could put a hand on the defender. Dale Ellis hit a lot of 3s int he handchecking era. Jordan averaged 37 a game. So did Nique. When they got rid of handchecking(during 94--95 nba season), you could only use your forearm in the paint when defending and no longer the palm of your hand. That didn't stop Hakeem from tearing Robinson a new asshold that season in the WCF. Didn't stop Shaq from tearing thru the east. So in the future, please do some researching before you go around repeating you hear others say online to prop up these pussified players of today.

When I was growing up, if you went to a basketball try out and was on a fast break but stopped at the 3 point line to shoot a 3, more than likely, you wouldn't have came back the next day. Now you have centers pulling up shooting 3s. Multiple 3's per game and it's celebrated

[tbdog]

Just remember there was no zone defense of any kind back in the days. A defender must be defending someone, not sure if it was arms length or not. So there was no doubling off ball, no loading up one side. So the game was very two-man games and iso's.

[james evans]

Just remember there was no zone defense of any kind back in the days. A defender must be defending someone, not sure if it was arms length or not. So there was no doubling off ball, no loading up one side. So the game was very two-man games and iso's.

there were also shot blocking centers in damn near every game. On the worst night, you were seeing Duane Causwell with the Kings in the middle during the 90s. Every game a 7 foot center guarding the paint challenging you coming in. Now, you have teams playign small ball in which the tallest player on the floor might be 6'9 at times and then he's shooting 3's.

[Kidd K]

Golden Age of the Western Conference*

Let's not go including the east because it doesn't deserve a mention. East's Finals berth has been in question maybe 3 times in practically the last decade and a half and they rarely ever won until LeBron and Bosh went to Miami to play with Wade.

Spurs would have beaten the best east team in a series probably 15/19 times during Duncan's career.

[Cry Havoc]

you guys really don't know what handchecking was. You're under the impression, because you heard one person say it and it began to spread through the internet community, that handchecking meant grabbing and holding your opponent. NO!! It simply means what the name is. "handchecking". Handchecking will not keep your from getting crossed over. Handchecking will not keep you from ge ing dunked on. Handcheckign will not keep you from hitting a 3. It just means you could put a hand on the defender. Dale Ellis hit a lot of 3s int he handchecking era. Jordan averaged 37 a game. So did Nique. When they got rid of handchecking(during 94--95 nba season), you could only use your forearm in the paint when defending and no longer the palm of your hand. That didn't stop Hakeem from tearing Robinson a new asshold that season in the WCF. Didn't stop Shaq from tearing thru the east. So in the future, please do some researching before you go around repeating you hear others say online to prop up these pussified players of today.

When I was growing up, if you went to a basketball try out and was on a fast break but stopped at the 3 point line to shoot a 3, more than likely, you wouldn't have came back the next day. Now you have centers pulling up shooting 3s. Multiple 3's per game and it's celebrated

I was alive and watching the NBA during the hand-check era, and what I said was mostly over-simplification, but I was echoing what the others said about how "impossible" it is to play defense today by comparison.

So in the future, please refrain from assumptions just because you think you're the only OG on the forum.

None of this changes the fact that after hand-checking was eliminated, NBA defenses evolved and they eventually had to change the rules again because defenses (without hand-checking) were too good and were shutting down opponents. That's the reason for the modern NBA rules, not that players have "become pussified".

[$pursDynasty]

The Spurs aren't "victims" of anything. They won a championship during the time frame you cited.

If you're gonna talk about victims, use a team that hasn't won as your example. Such as...the Thunder! They're victims, not us.

seven year period, Spurs have been in two finals and have won one, the only team during that stretch that did better was the Heat that were in 4 and won 2. We have done equally as well as the Dubs and the Cabs over this golden age so I agree with Arc.

[r0drig0lac]

you guys really don't know what handchecking was. You're under the impression, because you heard one person say it and it began to spread through the internet community, that handchecking meant grabbing and holding your opponent. NO!! It simply means what the name is. "handchecking". Handchecking will not keep your from getting crossed over. Handchecking will not keep you from ge ing dunked on. Handcheckign will not keep you from hitting a 3. It just means you could put a hand on the defender. Dale Ellis hit a lot of 3s int he handchecking era. Jordan averaged 37 a game. So did Nique. When they got rid of handchecking(during 94--95 nba season), you could only use your forearm in the paint when defending and no longer the palm of your hand. That didn't stop Hakeem from tearing Robinson a new asshold that season in the WCF. Didn't stop Shaq from tearing thru the east. So in the future, please do some researching before you go around repeating you hear others say online to prop up these pussified players of today.

When I was growing up, if you went to a basketball try out and was on a fast break but stopped at the 3 point line to shoot a 3, more than likely, you wouldn't have came back the next day. Now you have centers pulling up shooting 3s. Multiple 3's per game and it's celebrated

That makes a big difference, and it's not necessary to be as smart as you to understand.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you guys really don't know what handchecking was. You're under the impression, because you heard one person say it and it began to spread through the internet community, that handchecking meant grabbing and holding your opponent. NO!! It simply means what the name is. "handchecking". Handchecking will not keep your from getting crossed over. Handchecking will not keep you from ge ing dunked on. Handcheckign will not keep you from hitting a 3. It just means you could put a hand on the defender. Dale Ellis hit a lot of 3s int he handchecking era. Jordan averaged 37 a game. So did Nique. When they got rid of handchecking(during 94--95 nba season), you could only use your forearm in the paint when defending and no longer the palm of your hand. That didn't stop Hakeem from tearing Robinson a new asshold that season in the WCF. Didn't stop Shaq from tearing thru the east. So in the future, please do some researching before you go around repeating you hear others say online to prop up these pussified players of today.

When I was growing up, if you went to a basketball try out and was on a fast break but stopped at the 3 point line to shoot a 3, more than likely, you wouldn't have came back the next day. Now you have centers pulling up shooting 3s. Multiple 3's per game and it's celebrated

Handchecking will help you when someone crosses you over. You can reach out and impede their progress if beat. Now its a foul It is really useful in going over screens where you can again impede their progress. Mario Elie used to maul people going over screens and he sure as grabbed guys. It was the difference between a guy like Jaren Jackson being able to defend at the NBA level and its why Gary Neal has no shot despite his size.

I have no idea what point you think you are making naming big guards and forwards from 20 years ago. The point to be taken is that guys like Curry and Westbrook would not be able to operate like they do now because big guys could just reach out to push/grab them to impede their progress. The only analog from that era was AI and he was extremely physical and still got hammered regularly. That was so impressive about him: he kept getting up and going back for more.

Who gives a what it was like in your HS basketball team? You obviously didn't play at anything resembling a high level.

[james evans]

Handchecking will help you when someone crosses you over. You can reach out and impede their progress if beat. Now its a foul It is really useful in going over screens where you can again impede their progress. Mario Elie used to maul people going over screens and he sure as grabbed guys. It was the difference between a guy like Jaren Jackson being able to defend at the NBA level and its why Gary Neal has no shot despite his size.

I have no idea what point you think you are making naming big guards and forwards from 20 years ago. The point to be taken is that guys like Curry and Westbrook would not be able to operate like they do now because big guys could just reach out to push/grab them to impede their progress. The only analog from that era was AI and he was extremely physical and still got hammered regularly. That was so impressive about him: he kept getting up and going back for more.

Who gives a what it was like in your HS basketball team? You obviously didn't play at anything resembling a high level.

that is bull . if someone had you beat on a cross over, you could not reach out and grab them to stop their movement. you would have had to have your hands in position from the start. Stop deceiving people with nonsense . If it truly was that simple, then Tim Hardaway or Mahmoud Abdul Rauf wouldn't have every drove past anyone. Handchecking was NOT, and i repeat, NOT, sticking your hand out, holding your defensive assignment in front of you. You could touch players here and there even touch them on the hip and force them in a direction, but you couldn't just grab and hold. outta here with that bull

[FuzzyLumpkins]

that is bull . if someone had you beat on a cross over, you could not reach out and grab them to stop their movement. you would have had to have your hands in position from the start. Stop deceiving people with nonsense . If it truly was that simple, then Tim Hardaway or Mahmoud Abdul Rauf wouldn't have every drove past anyone. Handchecking was NOT, and i repeat, NOT, sticking your hand out, holding your defensive assignment in front of you. You could touch players here and there even touch them on the hip and force them in a direction, but you couldn't just grab and hold. outta here with that bull

This is amusing.

So you think that you cannot reach out and block someone with your arm or hand when they are trying to pass you particularly if you already have your hands up? This notion that the refs didn't allow grabbing and holding is also amusing. They allow it from time to time now when they decide to let players play.

No one is saying it was foolproof, couldn't miss, or the like but if you didn't notice the grabbing, pushing, and other malfeasance back then then you weren't paying attention. The SPurs in particular used to do it a lot under early Pop.

Abdul Rauf

You're a maroon.

[HarlemHeat37]

I hate yesterday's NBA, it's absolute garbage to watch and doesn't hold up today, tbh..too many goons, white American players(nothing against them being white, but there's a reason they have been phased out of the NBA), etc..

However, I can't imagine anybody arguing that handchecking doesn't have a major effect on an offensive player..have you ever played basketball against handchecking? There's nothing I hate more on a basketball court than some out of shape or unathletic putting his hands all over me and/or impeding my progress because he doesn't have the athleticism or lateral quickness to keep up, tbh..having a defender put both his hands and weighted force on your body absolutely affects your game(impeding progress, forcing you off balance, frustration, etc), especially if he's bigger/stronger..

You can call it "soft", but handchecking alters the game to the point where it essentially becomes a contact sport(considering you need to be physical in return to combat the handchecking defender)..it creates hideous basketball..

[james evans]

I hate yesterday's NBA, it's absolute garbage to watch and doesn't hold up today, tbh..too many goons, white American players(nothing against them being white, but there's a reason they have been phased out of the NBA), etc..

However, I can't imagine anybody arguing that handchecking doesn't have a major effect on an offensive player..have you ever played basketball against handchecking? There's nothing I hate more on a basketball court than some out of shape or unathletic putting his hands all over me and/or impeding my progress because he doesn't have the athleticism or lateral quickness to keep up, tbh..having a defender put both his hands and weighted force on your body absolutely affects your game(impeding progress, forcing you off balance, frustration, etc), especially if he's bigger/stronger..

You can call it "soft", but handchecking alters the game to the point where it essentially becomes a contact sport(considering you need to be physical in return to combat the handchecking defender)..it creates hideous basketball..

In the handchecking era, there were things you could do and things you couldn't do. Of course it's harder to score under handchecking rules than today, but the game was more physical back then. The pump fake, jump into the defender for 3 free throws wasn't a big thing because 3 freethrows off a 3 pointer didn't even get to the NBA until 93(pippen fouling Hubert Davis in the 94 ECSF was the first big play that helped an opponent benefit from it in the playoffs.) Waht these mfs do in the gym is just straight grabbing and using their arms to stop you. I just hate when people try to talk bull about something they know nothing about to prop up their favorite players. For example, curry fans will claim that after handchecking, Gary Payton's career was basically over while not being aware of Payton winning DPOY AFTER handcheckng was banned haha