Why Manu Ginobili Should've Been The 2005 Finals MVP

[Mikeanaro]

Exactly. Much of Manu's success was due to defenses focusing on Duncan. And despite those ankles, he still outplayed Wallace & Wallace.

And Duncan´s success at winning the FMVP was a hot Manu covering his bricks and making possible a championship, and a FMVP.
Much of Kobe´s success was everybody ting their pants because Shaq was there playing Godzilla, nice logic.

[Arcadian]

That's one of the biggest bull arguments that has ever been created and people just repeat it without thinking. And I'm not even talking about Manu in particular, I'm talking about any secondary option in the history of the sport.

How the can Manu success come from the attention Duncan got when pretty much all of Manu's damage came from plays where he was the ball handler on pick and roll situations? C'mon sons, stop repeating outdated takes like mindless parrots and start thinking for yourselves.

And if you're thinking for yourselves, start thinking right. Bull XX century comments don't fly anymore on the year 2018.

Jesus...relax. I'm not saying that Manu was incapable of playing that way without Duncan, or that he was merely made to look good by Duncan. Manu was still a legitimate All-star and top 10 player in the league. But he definitely benefitted from playing with Duncan, the most selfless superstar ever, who anchored the team on both offense and defense. They both made each other better, no doubt. It goes both ways. My argument is simply that Duncan was the centerpiece of the team system, he made everything run as smoothly as it did, and he led the Finals in more statistical categories...so that's why he was MVP.

[DAF86]

Jesus...relax. I'm not saying that Manu was incapable of playing that way without Duncan, or that he was merely made to look good by Duncan. Manu was still a legitimate All-star and top 10 player in the league. But he definitely benefitted from playing with Duncan, the most selfless superstar ever, who anchored the team on both offense and defense. They both made each other better, no doubt. It goes both ways. My argument is simply that Duncan was the centerpiece of the team system, he made everything run as smoothly as it did, and he led the Finals in more statistical categories...so that's why he was MVP.

No son, you said:

"Much of Manu's success was due to defenses focusing on Duncan"

And that's utter bull . I can assure that when the game was on the line and Manu had the ball on the top of they key, the main focus of the Pistons' defense was Manu, not Duncan. That's why Timmy got the chance to finish the game on regulation on a tip-in on game 5 after Ben Wallace left him all alone to try and stop a Manu drive.

What's with posters quickly changing their tune after I call them out on their original comments? It happened like 5 times today.

[Arcadian]

No son, you said:

"Much of Manu's success was due to defenses focusing on Duncan"

And that's utter bull . I can assure that when the game was on the line and Manu had the ball on the top of they key, the main focus of the Pistons' defense was Manu, not Duncan. That's why Timmy got the chance to finish the game on regulation on a tip-in on game 5 after Ben Wallace left him all alone to try and stop a Manu drive.

What's with posters quickly changing their tune after I call them out on their original comments? It happened like 5 times today.

That statement can be interpreted in different ways. You interpreted it in the most negative possible way. It needn't have the entailments you seem to think.

If it makes you feel better, I'd probably use different words to make my point.

[daslicer]

Only Manu s would be upset about Duncan winning Finals MVP.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Going 4down for Duncan in crunch time game 7 kinda sealed it for Timmy, tbh

[DAF86]

Going 4down for Duncan in crunch time game 7 kinda sealed it for Timmy, tbh

Manu had 11 pts on the 4th, Timmy 5. The game was tied after 3.

[weeks]

Duncan led the team in points, rebounds, and blocks (actually led both teams in points and rebounds, with Ben Wallace leading in blocks)...that gets you the MVP every time.

[DAF86]

One things is for sure: In today's NBA where Iggy wins FMVP over Curry, Manu would have won it.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Manu had 11 pts on the 4th, Timmy 5. The game was tied after 3.

Yeah I watched it live. We went 4 down in that 4th quarter in the clutch.

[DAF86]

Yeah I watched it live. We went 4 down in that 4th quarter in the clutch.

I watched live and then I watched like a thousands more times on the Spurs championship DVD. On the clutch it was Manu with the ball on his hands at the top of the key.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I watched live and then I watched like a thousands more times on the Spurs championship DVD. On the clutch it was Manu with the ball on his hands at the top of the key.

Okay we didn't go 4 down and the offense didn't revolve around Duncan. It's literally ST 2006 again.

[DAF86]

Okay we didn't go 4 down and the offense didn't revolve around Duncan. It's literally ST 2006 again.

I just re-watched the las 4 and a half minutes of the game which is when Manu came back to finish the game. From that point onwards untill the end of the game, the Spurs possessions went:

-Duncan 4 down: brick.
-Manu pick and roll: Wallace switches into Manu, Manu attacks, draws the double team and finds Duncan alone for a long two.
-Duncan 4 down: Manu 3.
-Manu pick and roll: draws foul.
-On the inbounds another Manu pick and roll: again draws double team and finds Duncan all alone. Brick.
-Duncan 4 down: miss.
-Duncan 4 down: foul. Makes 1 of 2.
-Manu at the top of the key: dagger.

Plays count: 4 for Tim, 4 for Manu. But yeah, it was all Duncan on the block.

[daledondale]

I know I've argued for this on other threads, tbh. What I recall being my main reason for the case is Manu #'s vs. TD #'s in Spurs wins. There was a definite chasm IIRC.

I think one poster (whom I don't recall) nailed it: Stern wasn't going to let Manu win after he embarrassed USA basketball in 2004.

Truth. I thought the same when tim was elected MVP.

And in fairness, he was going up against an absolute beast of a defensive front court.

Well, Prince guarded Manu, and he was a tough defender. Manu put big dunks and layups over Wallace brothers too.

[diego]

I don't particularly care about the Fmvp, Duncan is an all time great and he was injured. Over the entire playoffs, he was 1a and Manu was 1b

It just sucks that Manu never got more recognition, he started and kicked ass that year then pop turned him into a bench player and a lot of people dismiss him for that.


And it became especially annoying after that when Parker and then kawhi did win fmvp for one good series, when manu's 05 run was superior to eithers fmvp playoff

Playoff runs with 24+ per, 4+ ws,. 250+ ws/48, 8.5+ bpm, 2.0+ vorp:

https://www.basketball-reference.com...=2&order_by=ws

[DAF86]

Damn. Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Timmy and Manu. Exclusive list if I ever saw one.

[Phenomanul]

Damn. Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Timmy and Manu. Exclusive list if I ever saw one.

and no Kobe.

[DAF86]

and no Kobe.

How can you say that? Kobe is so much greater than Manu. You must be a homer argentinian fan.

[spurraider21]

How can you say that? Kobe is so much greater than Manu. You must be a homer argentinian fan.

lol defensive

[Phenomanul]

lol defensive

nope... it was pretty much stated verbatim earlier in the thread.

[diego]

Damn. Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Timmy and Manu. Exclusive list if I ever saw one.

I probably put too many qualifiers, but if you compare manu's 05 run to Wade in 06, kobe in 09, dirk 11 it's a favorable comparison in terms of the above advance stats, but Manu never gets the recognition those guys do

[cd98]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers...htmlstory.html

Kobe Finals Runs.

[DAF86]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers...htmlstory.html

Kobe Finals Runs.

So?

[diego]

The real problem is that finals mvp doesn't include the other 3 rounds. For many of the last 18 years or so the toughest matchups were before the finals

[cd98]

So?

Mil just trying to find a run where Manu was on Kobe’s level.