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  1. #51
    MORE LIFE SOON COME 313's Avatar
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    Raptors are playing much better without him to this point in the season, but the "beautiful game" doesn't win playoff series as we've seen over and over. They'll have to live or die by KawhISOs, whether they like it or not.

  2. #52
    Believe.
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    Raptors are playing much better without him to this point in the season, but the "beautiful game" doesn't win playoff series as we've seen over and over. They'll have to live or die by KawhISOs, whether they like it or not.
    They practiclly iso kawhi in end game situation. Nurse lets him handle all decision making in the 4th. Durant was just playing like a DPOY candidate in the 4th.

    He was clutch defensively tonight and just moved the ball.

  3. #53
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    Definitely not back to 100% of his peak.

    Either physical or mental, but he is 90% at best. More like 85% to me.
    Passing up shots he would have definitely dunked in his peak.
    3 on 2 bread on after a Golden got turnover and he slows down, pulls up and passes it. Had drive/dunk written all over it.

  4. #54
    Believe.
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    I've been to all their home games but one, you'd have to be quite the homer to claim that he's been anywhere near unstoppable

    Also, his teammates have been doing great even when he doesn't play..

    Kawhi has looked subpar compared to his last healthy year, not sure what this dude is talking about. The Raps are loaded with talent and as HH said above, have won without him. Of course, his worth will come playoff time, but MVP is a regular season award and he's not even in my top 5.
    If they were losing without him, that's one thing. It's not happening. That really s on any MVP consideration when a dude can miss half the games and the team not falter.

    Raptors were a 60 wins team last season without Kawhi. Why should we give Kawhi extra credit for their record? Specially when they have been killing it on the many games Kawhi has sitted too.



    Here we go again with the "Raptors won a handful of games without him so he's not that good", people were saying the same thing with the Spurs, "Do you know what the Spurs record without him is? 7-0 blah blah blah" and we see how that's turned out. They've only beaten 3 current non playoff teams without him and he's been responsible for beating the Dubs, Celtics, 76ers, Memphis, and many others.

    As if Leonard is the only star not allowed to have good teammates, Harden won MVP playing next to CP3, Capela, Gordon
    The Dubs with all their injuries last night still had as many all stars as Leonard
    Lebron has been paired with the likes of Love, Bosh, Wade, Irving,
    Durant was paired next to Westbrook and Ibaka early in his career etc.

    At some point you just have to acknowledge their 19-4 record is largely due to Leonard and it's not like Leonard's even in game shape or the Raptors for that matter.

  5. #55
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Here we go again with the "Raptors won a handful of games without him so he's not that good", people were saying the same thing with the Spurs, "Do you know what the Spurs record without him is? 7-0 blah blah blah" and we see how that's turned out. They've only beaten 3 current non playoff teams without him and he's been responsible for beating the Dubs, Celtics, 76ers, Memphis, and many others.

    As if Leonard is the only star not allowed to have good teammates, Harden won MVP playing next to CP3, Capela, Gordon
    The Dubs with all their injuries last night still had as many all stars as Leonard
    Lebron has been paired with the likes of Love, Bosh, Wade, Irving,
    Durant was paired next to Westbrook and Ibaka early in his career etc.

    At some point you just have to acknowledge their 19-4 record is largely due to Leonard and it's not like Leonard's even in game shape or the Raptors for that matter.
    Kawhi was so good last year that the spurs won 47 games with him only playing 9.

    Nobody is saying Kawhi didn’t make a difference. You can even say that he turn good teams into elite teams. But that has not yet happened. I want to see good basketball and parity so I’d root for the raptors to do well and actually chanllenge the warriors despite the backstabber but the facts remain that he’s not as great as people make him out to be.

  6. #56
    Believe.
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    You can even say that he turn good teams into elite teams. But that has not yet happened.
    2016 up 20 WCFs and imo very well would have gone on to le given the weak minded Durant etc.

  7. #57
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Here we go again with the "Raptors won a handful of games without him so he's not that good", people were saying the same thing with the Spurs, "Do you know what the Spurs record without him is? 7-0 blah blah blah" and we see how that's turned out. They've only beaten 3 current non playoff teams without him and he's been responsible for beating the Dubs, Celtics, 76ers, Memphis, and many others.

    As if Leonard is the only star not allowed to have good teammates, Harden won MVP playing next to CP3, Capela, Gordon
    The Dubs with all their injuries last night still had as many all stars as Leonard
    Lebron has been paired with the likes of Love, Bosh, Wade, Irving,
    Durant was paired next to Westbrook and Ibaka early in his career etc.

    At some point you just have to acknowledge their 19-4 record is largely due to Leonard and it's not like Leonard's even in game shape or the Raptors for that matter.
    This dude starts the argument dismissing win and loss record but ends up using it as a reason to prop up Kawhi. It doesn't get much more re ed than that, tbh.

  8. #58
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    2016 up 20 WCFs and imo very well would have gone on to le given the weak minded Durant etc.
    I thought we are talking about this year.

    He clearly was elite pre uncle.

  9. #59
    Believe.
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    Its ironic because he might win MVP this year even though Embiid is probably more deserving simply because he will end up averaging career highs. He should win it though. Media screwed him once.

  10. #60
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    ^^ if you saw last nights game, he clearly is not the same as his peak.
    After a steal he got the ball passed to him and dribbled past half court 3 on 2. Prime Kawhi is dunking that or at least getting fouled during the dunk attempt. He pulled up and passed off. More plays like that. 85% at best whether its mental of physical.

    But ya corrupt / incompetent media who knows. It's gonna be Durant again regardless. i hate that got.
    ESPNs had 4 headers after the game last night.
    Durant drops 51 in loss.
    Durant makes game tying 3.
    Two more Durant slobbers.

    The NBA is heavily influenced by Disney ABC and that is a got organization at the top 100%. It's gonna be Golden Showers until the torch gets passed back to the LA Flamers. Book it.

  11. #61
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    ^^ if you saw last nights game, he clearly is not the same as his peak.
    After a steal he got the ball passed to him and dribbled past half court 3 on 2. Prime Kawhi is dunking that or at least getting fouled during the dunk attempt. He pulled up and passed off. More plays like that. 85% at best whether its mental of physical.

    But ya corrupt / incompetent media who knows. It's gonna be Durant again regardless. i hate that got.
    ESPNs had 4 headers after the game last night.
    Durant drops 51 in loss.
    Durant makes game tying 3.
    Two more Durant slobbers.

    The NBA is heavily influenced by Disney ABC and that is a got organization at the top 100%. It's gonna be Golden Showers until the torch gets passed back to the LA Flamers. Book it.
    indeed

  12. #62
    Believe.
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    This dude starts the argument dismissing win and loss record but ends up using it as a reason to prop up Kawhi. It doesn't get much more re ed than that, tbh.
    Kawhi was so good last year that the spurs won 47 games with him only playing 9.

    Nobody is saying Kawhi didn’t make a difference. You can even say that he turn good teams into elite teams. But that has not yet happened. I want to see good basketball and parity so I’d root for the raptors to do well and actually chanllenge the warriors despite the backstabber but the facts remain that he’s not as great as people make him out to be.

    Going from winning 67 & 61 games to just 47 is such a massive drop off, that is no achievement.

    Aldridge+Green+Gasol actually showed up in some of the best shape of their careers last year due to being lambasted by the media for poor play the year before, the Spurs also gave Murray minutes, signed Rudy Gay, and in the end it was barely enough to sneak into the playoffs and win 47. That's bad, that's really bad.

    This year they're playing like a lottery team, the evidence is right there smacking you in the face and people can't see it?

  13. #63
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    ^^ if you saw last nights game, he clearly is not the same as his peak.
    After a steal he got the ball passed to him and dribbled past half court 3 on 2. Prime Kawhi is dunking that or at least getting fouled during the dunk attempt. He pulled up and passed off. More plays like that. 85% at best whether its mental of physical.

    But ya corrupt / incompetent media who knows. It's gonna be Durant again regardless. i hate that got.
    ESPNs had 4 headers after the game last night.
    Durant drops 51 in loss.
    Durant makes game tying 3.
    Two more Durant slobbers.

    The NBA is heavily influenced by Disney ABC and that is a got organization at the top 100%. It's gonna be Golden Showers until the torch gets passed back to the LA Flamers. Book it.

    I think he's just not in game shape yet, which is to be expected considering he's played a handful of games in the past 2 years, he fatigued after like the 3rd quarter started looking very slow but still managed to take the game over.

  14. #64
    Believe. Rusty's Avatar
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  15. #65
    5 Bill_Brasky's Avatar
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    Maybe if he starts freezing out his teammates, stealing rebounds, and passing up good shots to out assists he'll get more MVP love.

  16. #66
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Going from winning 67 & 61 games to just 47 is such a massive drop off, that is no achievement.

    Aldridge+Green+Gasol actually showed up in some of the best shape of their careers last year due to being lambasted by the media for poor play the year before, the Spurs also gave Murray minutes, signed Rudy Gay, and in the end it was barely enough to sneak into the playoffs and win 47. That's bad, that's really bad.

    This year they're playing like a lottery team, the evidence is right there smacking you in the face and people can't see it?
    This Kawhi was an mvp candidate two years ago.
    Aren’t we talking about this year with the raptors?

  17. #67
    6X ST MVP
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    Maybe if he starts freezing out his teammates, stealing rebounds, and passing up good shots to out assists he'll get more MVP love.
    Will it greatly improve his stats? Then, yes.

  18. #68
    6X ST MVP
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    Kawhi must've read this thread and decided to do something.... He still only gets 5 asts or more once in a blue moon though.

  19. #69
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    This year's MVP is Giannis' to lose, although he has gotten extreme hype to start of the past 2 seasons as well and ended up fading. AD started off strong but the Pelicans are back to a team.

  20. #70
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Kawhi must've read this thread and decided to do something.... He still only gets 5 asts or more once in a blue moon though.
    His passes are typically bailout passes, meaning he drove to the paint into double or triple coverage and kicked it out. I wouldn't be too concerned about his assists right now, he's got good handles but he's not even close to point forward capability.

  21. #71
    6X ST MVP
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    His passes are typically bailout passes, meaning he drove to the paint into double or triple coverage and kicked it out. I wouldn't be too concerned about his assists right now, he's got good handles but he's not even close to point forward capability.
    Which isn't good concerning his MVP chances. James Worthy may have been the better player between him and Earvin Johnson; but it was the latter stuffing the stat sheet and getting a couple MVP's.

  22. #72
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Which isn't good concerning his MVP chances. James Worthy may have been the better player between him and Earvin Johnson; but it was the latter stuffing the stat sheet and getting a couple MVP's.
    I don't see Kawhi getting an MVP with his restricted minutes and how well the team holds up when he's out. They had the best record in the East last year with DeRozan. I don't see how Kawhi's impact can be measured in the RS based on team record since he's averaging near the same PPG as DDR did last year in Toronto and just below his pre-injury average in San Antonio.

    It's too soon to know, too much can happen between now and then, however it would be hard to deny him if his team finishes head and shoulders above the field. If the Lakers even make the playoffs I don't see any way in Lebron doesn't get it since he's basically carrying them.

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