Grades: Spurs vs. 76ers - Dec. 17, 2018

[weeks]

Wonder would Raptor trade Green for Dante and Pondexter

[playbonner15]

Tbh Spurs are one decent 3nD away from a compe ive playoff team, albeit not a championship.

Cunningham? -

[Fusternino]

I still think we can bring back Green next year with the MLE.

[dbestpro]

Would like to see Pop start giving White the Parker treatment. He makes too many repeat mistakes. It's the only way to get him to clean up his game.

[DAF86]

Lebron had great numbers in 2014 against the Spurs. It was still obvious that Leonard defended him really well. James can score 50 and make guys foul out. That isn't a big deal to him.



I think the Spurs would have had a much harder time on D if Bertans guarded him, because they would have helped a lot more. Davis physically can't guard James. He can't even guard him enough to force him into certain places like DeRozan did. Well, I don't necessarily know that he CAN'T, but the way he defended interior guys this season suggests it wouldn't have worked. Gay is an interesting case. I'm not really sure he can defend anyone consistently at this point in his career. If he is moving better now, he wasn't in most of the LAL/SA match-ups.



Again, games aren't won on paper. Having a high stat doesn't mean anything within an individual game. That's why the Spurs haven't had much of a problem beating offenses who are on paper more efficient. That's why Aldridge playing well changes the Spurs in a way that DeRozan playing well doesn't. Things like match-ups and the defensive breakdowns that cascade from those match-ups matter. It's not quantified well with most stats, but it's not just an opinion. I'm not saying that in a potential Spurs/Lakers series that Cun has to be a regular starter for the team to win. I'm saying that for the Spurs to win such a series someone has to step up and play great one-on-one D against James. The 2012-2017 Spurs had great team defenders and great man defenders. Last year's Toronto team just had the former, and James wrecked them by himself. Obviously, you don't defend Lebron one-on-one. But the help has to be part of the gameplan (like doubling or shading), not the result of a guy getting beat constantly and others having to rotate.



It's going to depend on how guys play going forward. There's no reason why the defensive effort can't be there every game, especially by the role-players. But half-assed D isn't getting it done against good teams.

I remember when you used on/off stats, with like 5 games played , to make the point that Bertans wasn't being a positive contributor. Now that, in a bigger sample size, the on/off stat suggests that Bertans is indeed a positive contributor on both ends of the floor, you are trying to dismiss it? C'mon dude.

But, anyway, if you want to go by eye test; how can you watch Dante Cunningham and think "that's a good defender", or even a better defender than Bertans? He's slow as , can't keep in front of anybody, misses rotations and is constantly commiting dumb fouls.

[Chinook]

I remember when you used on/off stats, with like 5 games played , to make the point that Bertans wasn't being a positive contributor. Now that, in a bigger sample size, the on/off stat suggests that Bertans is indeed a positive contributor on both ends of the floor, you are trying to dismiss it? C'mon dude.

I used on/off stats to show his D hadn't had the impact you said it did. I am the guy who thinks the team's D is tied to their effort or than their talent (and you're the opposite given your obsession with wings), so when guys start trying harder, I am the one who thinks that makes a noticeable difference. Go back to the Bertans thread and look at my argument. I am the one who said Bertans just needed to play better, especially defensively. Now that he has, it's not vindication for you for "believing in him" like you think it is.

A guy having good defensive stats doesn't mean he's a better choice in all defensive situations. Bertans could be a legit DPoY candidate and still not be able to execute a gameplan against James better than Cun could. In the WCSF against Houston, Nene was the much better LMA defender even though Capela had great metrics. Against a team like Minny going forward, the Spurs are going to have a real problem on their hands with their forwards, because Gay and Bertans can't guard Gibson. No amount of switching or help will make a difference if you're the initial cause of the breakdown.

But, anyway, if you want to go by eye test; how can you watch Dante Cunningham and think "that's a good defender", or even a better defender than Bertans? He's slow as , can't keep in front of anybody, misses rotations and is constantly commiting dumb fouls.

Cun doesn't have a problem keeping PFs "in front of him". He doesn't the mobility to play the three, but he's been fine as a mobile four. Everyone on the team commits stupid fouls; it's the biggest problem with how they guard anyone this year. I don't disagree that he can't be mentally disengaged from that end of the floor if he's going to get minutes, but I don't think it makes sense to argue that he's particularly bad at that.

[DAF86]

I used on/off stats to show his D hadn't had the impact you said it did. I am the guy who thinks the team's D is tied to their effort or than their talent (and you're the opposite given your obsession with wings), so when guys start trying harder, I am the one who thinks that makes a noticeable difference. Go back to the Bertans thread and look at my argument. I am the one who said Bertans just needed to play better, especially defensively. Now that he has, it's not vindication for you for "believing in him" like you think it is.

A guy having good defensive stats doesn't mean he's a better choice in all defensive situations. Bertans could be a legit DPoY candidate and still not be able to execute a gameplan against James better than Cun could. In the WCSF against Houston, Nene was the much better LMA defender even though Capela had great metrics. Against a team like Minny going forward, the Spurs are going to have a real problem on their hands with their forwards, because Gay and Bertans can't guard Gibson. No amount of switching or help will make a difference if you're the initial cause of the breakdown.



Cun doesn't have a problem keeping PFs "in front of him". He doesn't the mobility to play the three, but he's been fine as a mobile four. Everyone on the team commits stupid fouls; it's the biggest problem with how they guard anyone this year. I don't disagree that he can't be mentally disengaged from that end of the floor if he's going to get minutes, but I don't think it makes sense to argue that he's particularly bad at that.

Metrics say he's bad at defense, eye test of people with two functional eyeballs say he is bad at defense. You are the only one claiming otherwise. It's obvious you're not going to change your stance no matter how many stats I present so there's no reason to keep this argument. We'll just have to agree to disagree, tbh.

[slick'81]

Metrics say he's bad at defense, eye test of people with two functional eyeballs say he is bad at defense. You are the only one claiming otherwise. It's obvious you're not going to change your stance no matter how many stats I present so there's no reason to keep this argument. We'll just have to agree to disagree, tbh.

Dont you know cunningham is our x factor broski

[Chinook]

Metrics say he's bad at defense, eye test of people with two functional eyeballs say he is bad at defense. You are the only one claiming otherwise. It's obvious you're not going to change your stance no matter how many stats I present so there's no reason to keep this argument. We'll just have to agree to disagree, tbh.

The metrics you're citing don't say anything about if Bertans is able to guard a guy like James. All you're doing is ignoring the actual conversation and continuing to cite his general stats when we're talking about specific situations. If you presented stats that say "against Lebron and these other big offensive forwards, Bertans grades out better than Cun" then that'd be one thing. But you're not. You're saying that because Bertans has a better rating, he'd automatically be more helpful there. Bryn Forbes has a better on/off too. Do you want him defending James?

I've obviously changed my stance on Cun, especially in relation to the team. I think his defensive floor is higher than most of the rest of the team and that his role is important. But I don't think his ceiling is as high or that he shouldn't be upgraded. When you have a stretch like they'd had recently when the defense kicks up and guys play with more heart, the limitations Dante has are much more apparent. But yeah, trying hard when no one else is actually pretty important.

[Duncan(DonPerro)]

I disagree with Houston rising in the standings. Unless Harden averages 47 points the rest of the season they're screwed

@Nivek: It was not expected the problems in Houston. But it's been a good season,
with the teams that move from below going up. Greetings friend.