Grades: Spurs @ 76ers - Jan. 23, 2019

[Kobe'sAchilles]

A trade doesn't have to be 1-for-1. And it might have to involve a third team. But I would start by offering DeMar and Toronto's first to Minnesota for Robert Covington and Taj Gibson and the Wolves' first.

Thats only bc you've never actually seen Covington play. He's horrendous. He plays great in little games and disappears in the big ones. And he does this with absolutely no pressure on him at all. I'm too lazy to look it up but he shot something like 25% from the field and 12% from 3 in the playoffs against Boston. And all that is expected from him is to be a shooter! Taj Gibson is like David West to me. A horrible fit for the team. Why do we want an undersized power forward with no jumper? Especially in 2019! The dude is useless. The only thing of value is the pick and my point about that is that nobody comes into the NBA ready to play. It takes years to develop. We might be stuck in a Phoenix or Sacramento or Minny situation. You basically want to tank and I'm not so sure that's the best option. What if we draft a SF this year and he shows promise at a young age like Kawhi did (am not saying he will turn into Kawhi) and we have Murray back and white gets playoff experience and LMA and DDR are still our stars. Well all of a sudden we are a contender again in the west. I mean honestly this is the weakest the west has been in 20 years. We don't need to tank in order to get good again. We are on the cusp.

[tbdog]

No point in Robert Covington if DD is out. Covington covers DD weakness.

[sasaint]

Thats only bc you've never actually seen Covington play. He's horrendous. He plays great in little games and disappears in the big ones. And he does this with absolutely no pressure on him at all. I'm too lazy to look it up but he shot something like 25% from the field and 12% from 3 in the playoffs against Boston. And all that is expected from him is to be a shooter! Taj Gibson is like David West to me. A horrible fit for the team. Why do we want an undersized power forward with no jumper? Especially in 2019! The dude is useless. The only thing of value is the pick and my point about that is that nobody comes into the NBA ready to play. It takes years to develop. We might be stuck in a Phoenix or Sacramento or Minny situation. You basically want to tank and I'm not so sure that's the best option. What if we draft a SF this year and he shows promise at a young age like Kawhi did (am not saying he will turn into Kawhi) and we have Murray back and white gets playoff experience and LMA and DDR are still our stars. Well all of a sudden we are a contender again in the west. I mean honestly this is the weakest the west has been in 20 years. We don't need to tank in order to get good again. We are on the cusp.

I am not making a suggestion that I believe will result in our tanking. When you feel like looking up Covington's numbers, look up DeMar's while you are at it. He has been a net negative on/off his entire career. We probably would have been better off if he hadn't played the last couple of weeks. I do not believe we would miss him much this season, and certainly not at all next season when Dijon returns, and LWIV, hopefully, proves himself.

The sample size is pretty small for Covington; if you want to see a guy who disappears in big games and plays big in small games, then don't take your eye off DeMar. I do covet Covington, and I believe he is just the ticket for this team. I also like Taj, but that doesn't really matter since he is on an expiring contract anyway. For the record I liked DWest even when he was a Spur. I believe that Pop set him and the team up to fail because of his refusal to split Duncan and LMA and pair one with DWest and the other with Boris.

DeMar is not the "star" I want to pay $28MM and build a team around.

[spurs10]

It's been approximately 926 minutes since it happened . . . and, honestly, it hurts. It's a pain deep in the soul that I probably won't ever shake. To be that close to such a great moment -- only to see it slip through the fingers -- is still devastating. Somehow, it seems to have hurt more and more as the minutes progress as the realization set in regarding what exactly was at stake.

Sure, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't mean much. It's not something real. It's not a death or some other sort of real life tragedy. But given that following the Spurs is my only hobby in life, it's painful. I'm not going to even try to lie. It hurts.

I've tried getting away from it all to try to forget about it. But here I am, in the middle of my lunch break trying to eat, and all that I can see are memories of Red getting a 4-point play replaying again and again.

Logically, I know the pain doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's just a basketball game. And the Spurs already have five championships. And going into the game, going toe to toe with a team that just annihilated HOU would have been seen as a great success. , after the way the Spurs looked on the road early on, just not losing by 30 would've been a job well done.

Logically, the Spurs' turnaround has been a great accomplishment. A year ago, if you told me the Spurs would be a playoff team without Kawhi, I would have been thrilled.

But damn.

This pain doesn't compare to anything else I've experienced in my Spurs fandom. Yeah, .4 sucked. The foul was tough to swallow. The no-look pass was unpleasant. The backdoor sweeps weren't fun. The frontdoor sweeps weren't enjoyable. But all of those don't even register compared to this.

I've had an extremely busy summer. Life is solid -- could be better but can't complain overall. But it will continue to haunt me.



Hopefully the the trade deadline will provide some sort of relief. The great thing about sports is there is always tomorrow. For now, at least, the pain of yesterday outweighs the excitement of tomorrow. I'm hoping that changes. Starting tonight.

I take it you're paraphrasing timvp from summer of 2013. That being said this was a bad loss, but we can move on Saturday.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Apples to oranges in those playoff comparisons tbh. Teams actually game plan to shut down Demar since he's the number 1 option. Nobody cares about Covington and he still sucks. There's nothing to suggest he will play any better. And Gibson is a waste of a roster spot and money. We have enough of those.

I I agree ideally that DeRozan isn't the player to build around. I have seen him in the playoffs ( I actually like the NBA for some reason and watch every team play). He sucked in the first round and they were bounced a couple of years in a row. Then his team carried him to the conference finals where he played decently. Then he sucked again the next year against Lebron. Playoffs get into his head and affect his game. But on the flip side, we have nobody else that can be the number 1 option as a guard. Nobody else that can consistently create his own shot. Nobody else that teams game plan for. Derrick White could be that but it's too soon to know. Same with DeJounte and Lonnie is seriously a project. Like a 3 year project. He plays so stupid that it's almost comical. But he's going to be a stud if he doesn't get injured again. I have a lot of faith in our young guards.

But if you take away DeRozan we don't make the playoffs. If we trade for Gibson and Covington we don't make the playoffs. We risk rushing our younger players into roles they aren't ready to fill and that could backfire and damage them long run. Teams throw their high picks to the wolves and don't take their time with them and build them from the ground up on fundamentals. There's a reason why Spur draft picks (a larger amount than we admit) get second contracts in the league. I don't want Lonnie to be like Booker and never learn how to play defense. Or be like Wiggins and sulk in the corner bc he doesn't have the ball. Ideally Lonnie would learn how to move off the ball and cut and set screens.

DeRozan can't carry a franchise. We agree on that. but he's better than Covington and Gibson. What would Gibson even do on the Spurs? Seriously. And Covington is as useless as Danny Green offensively. He needs others to create for him and you want to get rid of our best play maker. Is Forbes going to create for him? Patty? Marco? Rudy and LMA aren't creators either. I could be wrong but I think we are best suited to just be patient.

[mkurts]

Too generous with the grades.

DeFrozen, Aldridge and Forbes all should have gotten no more than C+

[tonski17]

Thanks timvp! spurs should limit their turnovers. Is there a chance that we could acquire kanter? I heard he was upset for him being benched. Does he fit the system?

[sasaint]

Apples to oranges in those playoff comparisons tbh. Teams actually game plan to shut down Demar since he's the number 1 option. Nobody cares about Covington and he still sucks. There's nothing to suggest he will play any better. And Gibson is a waste of a roster spot and money. We have enough of those.

I I agree ideally that DeRozan isn't the player to build around. I have seen him in the playoffs ( I actually like the NBA for some reason and watch every team play). He sucked in the first round and they were bounced a couple of years in a row. Then his team carried him to the conference finals where he played decently. Then he sucked again the next year against Lebron. Playoffs get into his head and affect his game. But on the flip side, we have nobody else that can be the number 1 option as a guard. Nobody else that can consistently create his own shot. Nobody else that teams game plan for. Derrick White could be that but it's too soon to know. Same with DeJounte and Lonnie is seriously a project. Like a 3 year project. He plays so stupid that it's almost comical. But he's going to be a stud if he doesn't get injured again. I have a lot of faith in our young guards.

But if you take away DeRozan we don't make the playoffs. If we trade for Gibson and Covington we don't make the playoffs. We risk rushing our younger players into roles they aren't ready to fill and that could backfire and damage them long run. Teams throw their high picks to the wolves and don't take their time with them and build them from the ground up on fundamentals. There's a reason why Spur draft picks (a larger amount than we admit) get second contracts in the league. I don't want Lonnie to be like Booker and never learn how to play defense. Or be like Wiggins and sulk in the corner bc he doesn't have the ball. Ideally Lonnie would learn how to move off the ball and cut and set screens.

DeRozan can't carry a franchise. We agree on that. but he's better than Covington and Gibson. What would Gibson even do on the Spurs? Seriously. And Covington is as useless as Danny Green offensively. He needs others to create for him and you want to get rid of our best play maker. Is Forbes going to create for him? Patty? Marco? Rudy and LMA aren't creators either. I could be wrong but I think we are best suited to just be patient.

I thought Pop wasted a year of DWhite in the G League last season. I think he is being reined in this season because of DeMar. I think he is ready and perfectly capable of filling DeMar's role. Moreover, hanging onto a guy who soaks up 34 minutes a game doesn't help our young guys to ripen in their time. He prevents it. We have a surplus of backcourt players, and DeMar is the guy I think will reap the highest return and be missed the least.

I value Covington for his 3 and for his D, and I think he can stand out with the Spurs. I don't mind having a tough-minded Taj for a year, either, and gaining his salary following this season. Being first-round playoff fodder isn't a goal of mine, however, I believe we would not be any less likely to make the playoffs or worse off if we did make them. Building a solid foundation for a team is a lot like building solid fundamentals for an individual player. DeMar is not a solid foundation piece.

[timtonymanu]

this team is two wings away from being an elite team, this is really clear imo

but we have enough depth

[duncan2k5]

Well you said we were elite when we had Kawhi and he is only one wing player so...
You make it sound like we are the Cavs or something. We have a good young core of guards in White, Murray, and Lonnie. We have a stretch 4 in Bertans and Rudy Gay. We have good 3 point shooting in Patty and Belli. Honestly if we could replace Forbes with a 3 and D player, I think we are right there with Houston.

If Durant goes east, then the west becomes wiiiiide open for anybody to win. That includes us if we draft our future SF this summer. We really are one wing away from contending for these reasons: Draymond Green is done. Physically and mentally plus the Warriors would still be on the hook for Iggy so they can't re-sign Boogie. Golden St will collapse without Durant. Chris Paul barely plays 60 games a year and is always hurt in the playoffs, add on Harden always chokes in the playoffs, I don't see any reason to fear them. Lebron is now getting old man injuries and will start missing games. Plus I don't trust Magic to get him the adequate help he needs to contend. Denver can't defendy shadow. NO is trash. OKC isn't going to get any better with the way that Westbrook is aging. Dude never learned how to shoot and his athleticism is failing him. Really who is there to fear?

Kawhi is an elite player... U expect to get two elite wings?? Lmfao

[duncan2k5]

Well you said we were elite when we had Kawhi and he is only one wing player so...
You make it sound like we are the Cavs or something. We have a good young core of guards in White, Murray, and Lonnie. We have a stretch 4 in Bertans and Rudy Gay. We have good 3 point shooting in Patty and Belli. Honestly if we could replace Forbes with a 3 and D player, I think we are right there with Houston.

If Durant goes east, then the west becomes wiiiiide open for anybody to win. That includes us if we draft our future SF this summer. We really are one wing away from contending for these reasons: Draymond Green is done. Physically and mentally plus the Warriors would still be on the hook for Iggy so they can't re-sign Boogie. Golden St will collapse without Durant. Chris Paul barely plays 60 games a year and is always hurt in the playoffs, add on Harden always chokes in the playoffs, I don't see any reason to fear them. Lebron is now getting old man injuries and will start missing games. Plus I don't trust Magic to get him the adequate help he needs to contend. Denver can't defendy shadow. NO is trash. OKC isn't going to get any better with the way that Westbrook is aging. Dude never learned how to shoot and his athleticism is failing him. Really who is there to fear?

Golden state was an elite team without Durant... Won 73 games...

[duncan2k5]

Well you said we were elite when we had Kawhi and he is only one wing player so...
You make it sound like we are the Cavs or something. We have a good young core of guards in White, Murray, and Lonnie. We have a stretch 4 in Bertans and Rudy Gay. We have good 3 point shooting in Patty and Belli. Honestly if we could replace Forbes with a 3 and D player, I think we are right there with Houston.

If Durant goes east, then the west becomes wiiiiide open for anybody to win. That includes us if we draft our future SF this summer. We really are one wing away from contending for these reasons: Draymond Green is done. Physically and mentally plus the Warriors would still be on the hook for Iggy so they can't re-sign Boogie. Golden St will collapse without Durant. Chris Paul barely plays 60 games a year and is always hurt in the playoffs, add on Harden always chokes in the playoffs, I don't see any reason to fear them. Lebron is now getting old man injuries and will start missing games. Plus I don't trust Magic to get him the adequate help he needs to contend. Denver can't defendy shadow. NO is trash. OKC isn't going to get any better with the way that Westbrook is aging. Dude never learned how to shoot and his athleticism is failing him. Really who is there to fear?

Denver can't defend what?? Do u even watch basketball?? They're the best defensive team in the league... Plz stop

[duncan2k5]

Danny fell off a cliff and really never played well after the 2014 season. But sure we had Danny. I didn't bring up Demar and LMA bc 2k5 hates both of them and bringing them up would only make his response "we won't win anything with LMA. We won't win anything with Demar." Never mind the fact that literally only Golden St has won "anything" in the West since we got LMA. For some reason he's got this mindset that other teams have been doing any winning. Idk y.

If golden state didn't exist, we still wouldn't win with them... Not sure what about that is rocket science

[duncan2k5]

This is DeMarr's first season in San Antonio. He's adapting to the system and vice versa. I'm very optimistic about him after one summer working under Spurs guidance. I bet next season he will start scoring from three in certain spots and he will play better defense as well. Pop could run more P&R actions for him ala Parker/Ginobili. DeRozan has the correct at ude, I can only see him getting better in San Antonio.
I really trust our player-development coaches, commanded by Chip. Year after year they do an amazing job, there are a lot of examples on the current roster. Damn, even Patty Mills is scoring in penetrations nowadays!

Trust the process.

I mean, KEEP POUNDING THE ROCK.

Lol... Sure worked with Richard Jefferson and Hedo...

[monty4329]

[QUOTE= Jrue Holiday and CJ McCollum make roughly the same and I rather have Demar than them. Mike Conely, Blake Griffin.(...). These are all worse players that are in the Demar salary range. .[/QUOTE]

What? All of them are better players than DDR.

[tbdog]

Disagree. Conley and Holiday are nice players and all but they don't win 60 games in the east in Tor.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Denver can't defend what?? Do u even watch basketball?? They're the best defensive team in the league... Plz stop

I mean why do you say stuff like that? Clearly that's false. Like what is the thinking process for making that up? Plus you didn't respond to anything I said really. I mean yes Golden St did win 73 games without Durant but they aren't the same as they were on 2016. They have no bench (iggy and Livingston are washed) and Draymond Green has lost like 4 steps. Dude barely grazes rim when he shoots. I guess you can be scared of all these West teams but I'm not. Just like I won't be scared of the clippers when they get Kawhi.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

What? All of them are better players than DDR.

Jrue Holiday is so good that he can't even sniff the playoffs while playin with the 3rd best player in the league. He's so good that AD is probably not going to re-sign in NO lol. And Blake Griffin failed to make the postseason carrying a franchise as well. He can't even lead a team in the East to the playoffs and you don't even need a winning record to get the 8th seed. I get that people hate DDR (I'm not saying he's great or anything) but he also isn't as bad as you think.

[FkLA]

I get that people hate DDR (I'm not saying he's great or anything) but he also isn't as bad as you think.

Yeah, if you compare him to the great Timothy Theodore Duncan or even Nephew you are always going to be disappointed. He's an all-star level guy not an all-time great. That's not too shabby especially when stars aren't exactly flocking to come here and we just had one bail on us. ST has always lacked perspective though, tbh.

[DAF86]

It's not that he isn't an all-time great, it's his style of play. A guy like a Bradley Beal, for example, isn't an all-time great either. But his style of play is so much more palatable and conductive to winning when it matters. Neither guy is a top 1 option but you can win with Beal as a complementary option, I'm not sure you can win with a guy that can't shoot threes as complementary piece, tbh.

[monty4329]

Jrue Holiday is so good that he can't even sniff the playoffs while playin with the 3rd best player in the league. He's so good that AD is probably not going to re-sign in NO lol. And Blake Griffin failed to make the postseason carrying a franchise as well. He can't even lead a team in the East to the playoffs and you don't even need a winning record to get the 8th seed. I get that people hate DDR (I'm not saying he's great or anything) but he also isn't as bad as you think.

With your "logic" Cousins sucked because the Kings didn't make the playoffs with him. And Jokic sucked last year, but this year doesn't. A flawless logic, for sure.

[Spurs da champs]

With your "logic" Cousins sucked because the Kings didn't make the playoffs with him. And Jokic sucked last year, but this year doesn't. A flawless logic, for sure.

What's funny too is he is either ignorant or purposely forgetting Holliday and NOLAP made the playoffs last year and he locked down Blazers backcourt of Dame & CJ McCollum .

[Kobe'sAchilles]

What's funny too is he is either ignorant or purposely forgetting Holliday and NOLAP made the playoffs last year and he locked down Blazers backcourt of Dame & CJ McCollum .

So that's the standard? Winning one playoff series? Going to the playoffs once? In that case, Demar has won more playoff series in one year than Holiday had his entire career. Maybe you're too ignorant or purposefully forgetting that. I mean the level of stupidity is shocking here. Demar sucks Let's trade him for other players who are worse than him bc I've never seen them play before Jrue Holiday won an entire playoff series guys! Let's forget that they suck now though and have sucked basically the entire time Holiday has been a Pelican!

[Spurs da champs]

So that's the standard? Winning one playoff series? Going to the playoffs once? In that case, Demar has won more playoff series in one year than Holiday had his entire career. Maybe you're too ignorant or purposefully forgetting that. I mean the level of stupidity is shocking here. Demar sucks Let's trade him for other players who are worse than him bc I've never seen them play before Jrue Holiday won an entire playoff series guys! Let's forget that they suck now though and have sucked basically the entire time Holiday has been a Pelican!

Do you view AD in the same light as you do Jrue? Your standards are funny btw seeing as LMA only won one playoff series prior to joining the Spurs. Also Jrue's 76ers beat the Bulls after Rose got injured just saying.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

With your "logic" Cousins sucked because the Kings didn't make the playoffs with him. And Jokic sucked last year, but this year doesn't. A flawless logic, for sure.

Cousins is the poster child of empty stats on bad teams. Bad leader. Bad teammate. Bad locker room presence. The Kings are playing better now than they ever did with Cousins. If you would rather have Blake Griffin then I can't help you. Detroit doesn't even want him. The Clippers got rid of him. The bleeping Clippers who haven't won squat. And they didn't get a top 5 player in return like Toronto did when they shipped out Demar.

BTW with your "logic" I can make up words that you never said. With your "logic" I can make up an argument centered around something you never said. Bc I never said that that Blake or Cousins or Holiday suck. I just said that I rather have Demar over them. Nice try though