The fact that is often ignored by most people when discussing negotiations with DRob two years ago is how low the Spurs' initial offer was. DRob was made out by some to be too greedy, but the Spurs' initial offer to him was to the tune of $2 or $3 million per year. They took advantage of DRob's generosity in the past and expected him to play for peanuts, and it backfired. Although $10 million or so was about DRob's market value two years ago, I feel confident that he would've signed with us for significantly less than that had the Spurs not presented him with such an insulting offer to begin with.
your analysis is based on this years result dumb ... which had nothing to do with how they treated DA and the fact they went after players who'd still be under contract... and how they treated david... why don't you just go back and read the posts. (then if you come up with a different spin - maybe you can use a no limit name)
i knew a girl named no limit amy once...
Come on kid, bring something more than that drivel.
you've been hittin' that pipe too hard?
maybe its time you changed names again?
imafrontofficehorry?
popismydaddy?
iwantkiddwaitnoidont?
"no limit"
Yes, you are a dumbass.
awww whats the matter? baby gonna cry?
go check on what the front office's ass is doing... i'll bet its been 20 seconds since you've kissed it. (they miss you)
Cry about what? You've proven you cannot respond to my points in this thread so you resort to acting like the child you are. That's not surprising given your inability to substantiate your points. Call up the Spurs if you have a problem with them. I could give a F less.
i've proved all my points... and there's even other threads out there now that are questioning the same thing. (how we treat our FA's) you smokeweed... get a f'ing clue.
You've yet to prove a single thing. Most of that is due to your inability to make even a coherent point. When presented with facts you call me a "homer."
ok.. one more time with feeling:
go back and read what i wrote about derek anderson and how they treated him... go back and read what the admiral wrote on it... go back and read what i said about how they flubbed davids contract...
then go back and read what you said about derek... that homers are sad to see their favorite players leave... but its a business... it wasn't cheap, it was smart not to invest that money in derek.
...especially when they offered the same contract guaranteed to christie... and mckie... who turned them down. and then when they turned to derek, he shot them the finger and forced a sign and trade.
do you get it?
DA would've cost more than Christie and McKie. It was not the same money. Both offers to the latter two were for $4 mil or less starting in 2001-02. For DA it was $6 mil. DA also has a major injury involving both knees.
Beyond this the central question in this thread was that the Spurs were being "cheap" by not bringing back Stephen Jackson. Given the situation I would say no. I've pointed out their current obligations and gave a breakdown on that. I've pointed out the potential obligations to Parker, Ginobili, and Turkoglu and gave detail on that. In light of what other NBA teams have done carrying 6 major long term deals is itself somewhat a question mark for this franchise going forward. Apparently the Spurs have decided that since they could make the deal for Turkoglu and Mercer, Jack was expendable. It sucks, but it's a business not whatever else you seem to think it is.
the offer for christy was the same deal they ended up extending to DA... you're point was that they couldn't afford DA and thats wrong. besides we ended up trading kerr in that deal and getting steve smith who was on the books for close to 9 million. (you're wrong)
the central question was the reason the topic changed from sjax to DA... sjax would have never been a starter had that whole deal never happened. we had virtually no talent at alot of spots... we were left with a broken down steve smith, and forced to play sjax at shooting guard last year.
sjax was not a starting quality guard for half or more than half of last year's western conference playoff teams. if he was asking for what is being reported, the spurs probably saw no point in resigning him... making them more flexible to trade offers like the one for spree... and the one that eventually netted hedo and mercer...
Was not the same deal.
Yeah Steve Smith was on the books for two seasons at $9 mil. Six or seven seasons guaranteed is greater than two the last time I checked.
SA had both Ginobili and Jack to play at the two in addition to SSmith. Ginobili probably would've been the starter if not for his ankle injury which was sustained in the WBC last summer.
it was the same deal... in fact, it was more because it was for the full contact. (at six years) but christie turned them down and mckie was offered less... after robinson had already agreed to 10 million per for 2.
and sjax was the only one on the roster then... and he played limited mins that year. it was only this last year when we were forced to start him... and bring in manu from overseas. (passing on GG and letting him go for nothing - over capspace concerns for this year)
A contract for six years starting at $4 mil is going to be less than one starting at $6 mil. McKie ended up signing a 7 year deal with the Sixers starting at $4 mil in 2001-02. Christie? 5 years starting @ $5.2 mil.
DA? Six years starting @ $6.5 mil with Portland. The offers reportedly made by SA to DA were in the low 40s over six years (ignoring the fact that the last two years were almost entirely nonguaranteed.) A contract starting at $4 million is not going to be worth $40 mil over 6 years.
You said that the Spurs were "forced" to start Jack last year. Ginobili was on the team then, but his recovery from the ankle injury was slow.
oh my god... you're still on this? christie was offered the same contract DA was offered, not the one that he signed and was traded for... both christie and mckie turned down the spurs offers. either way, just quickly figure out in your head what a 6 year contract starting at 5 million would be worth right now... and then ask me about capspace. (if we had signed either christie or mckie)
the spurs were forced to start sjax because of steve smith, the guy we signed and traded DA for... and manu was brought in (buyout) because of the weakness. (GG was let go for nothing because we couldn't afford to keep both he and manu and keep our capspace)
Figure out in your head that the Spurs did not offer DA the same deal as they offered Christie. Sacto gave Christie a shorter deal starting at a higher salary.
And yes, the Spurs certainly didn't want to match Portland's offer.
Ginobili was brought in because of his performances in Europe. It was anticipated that he would be a part of the rotation. Had he been healthy I don't think it's a stretch to think he could've challenged for the starting spot early on in the season.
”SA never offered DA 7 years guaranteed. Or 6 years for that matter. Portland straight up offered 6 years. DA was willing to sign with Portland for 6 years at the MLE and that was more than SA was offering guaranteed.” — Marcus
espn.go.com/nba/news/2001...30547.html
Friday, July 27, 2001
Steve Smith sent packing to Spurs
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press
        Anderson
        Smith
PORTLAND, Ore. -- Derek Anderson says the San Antonio Spurs lied to him. The team said he broke his word about re-signing with them. No matter what was promised to whom, Anderson is now with the Portland Trail Blazers.
Anderson was traded to the Blazers on Wednesday for Steve Smith in an exchange of shooting guards, a deal brought on when Anderson rejected a six-year, $42 million offer from the Spurs last week and immediately committed to Portland.
"My loyalty is with the people who are going to be loyal to me," Anderson said during a news conference at the Rose Garden.
The Spurs also included guard Steve Kerr in the deal, which will pay Anderson $48 million over six years.
Anderson signed a one-year deal last season for $2.25 million, with the understanding that he would be rewarded with a long-term contract starting in the $8 million range. Team officials said they had a verbal agreement from Anderson to accept their offer last week.
Anderson, however, was insulted that the deal wasn't fully guaranteed in the final season. When team officials gave him a deadline of 2 p.m. Friday, he and agent Tony Dutt committed to Portland.
"I just think they're in a situation where they have to look at themselves in the mirror and say, `What in the world were we thinking?' Because I did nothing negative to them," Anderson said of the Spurs.
"I don't buy into the `Aw, it's a business, people lie to you.' You don't have to lie to me; tell me the truth and move on."
In a separate news conference in San Antonio, Spurs assistant general manager R.C. Buford responded, "Contract negotiations in team sports happen all the time, and I'm not sure that anything here happened differently than they would most places."
Before the sign-and-trade deal was struck Wednesday, Anderson was prepared to accept the Blazers' mid-level salary-cap exception, which would have paid him $33.8 million over six years -- far less than what he stood to earn with the Spurs.
San Antonio reportedly didn't want to make the trade but risked getting nothing in return for Anderson.
Now they get Smith, whose knees are questionable and who lost his starting job to Bonzi Wells last season. Smith also had been pushing the Blazers for a contract extension, on top of the $19 million he's due to earn over the next two years.
When he heard that Blazers general manager Bob Whitsitt was courting Anderson, Smith demanded to be traded.
"I'm happy to get the chance to go to the Spurs," Smith said Wednesday. "When you get traded or ask to be traded, you never now where you are going to end up. If you had to pick an organization or a team that fits for me and what I stand for, the Spurs were right there on the top of my list."
Buford added, "We're thrilled that this has happened. It's another piece that puts us right back in contention for a championship."
Smith averaged 13.6 points last season and seemed to play better after going to the bench. He regained his starting spot after Wells injured his left knee late in the season, but the Blazers stumbled to an 8-17 record in the final six weeks, capped by a three-game playoff sweep by the Los Angeles Lakers.
Anderson nearly became a Blazer last summer, when he was leaving the Los Angeles Clippers as a free agent. But the deal fell through and Anderson signed with the Spurs. Anderson said he didn't forget how honest Whitsitt was during their talks.
"He was very up-front and stuck by me, and I think that's why I came," Anderson said.
He averaged 15.5 points last season, and his outside shot improved. A career 28 percent shooter from 3-point range before last season, he made nearly 40 percent of his 3-pointers in 2000-01.
Anderson likely will start at shooting guard for the Blazers, with Wells backing him up after he recovers from surgery to repair a torn anterior cruciate ligament.
Kerr, who has two years left on a contract that pays him $2.4 million a year, will be the third-string point guard, behind Damon Stoudamire and Erick Barkley.
The Spurs wouldn't have traded for Hedo and Mercer had they intended on re-signing Jackson. Hedo has a big upside, but I think the Spurs are making a mistake by not retaining a graduate of the SPURS BASKETBALL system, like Malik Rose.
Jackson became a real by paying his dues with the Spurs. His "no fear" at ude and shooting saved the Spurs a couple times in the playoffs, most notably in the Suns and Mavs series.
I think the Spurs are lacking in mental toughness for next season with the subtractions of Claxton and Jackson.
GW,
I see it slightly different, than you. The Spurs would not have traded for Hedo and Ron, if Jax had lived up to his word that he was willing to play for the Spurs for a reasonable contract. Unfortunately, Jax sealed his own fate by letting his agent talk him into chasing the money.
Let's use Malik as the case study of how the Spurs reward their players. Malik comes in for a small contract. He shows hustle and is rewarded with a larger contract for a couple of years. He contiues to improve his skills and is rewarded with a MLE type contract for many years. This is how it SHOULD work for small market to avoid JJ type situations.
I have a feeling that Jax's agent convinced him he didn't have to wait for the short term deal at decent money and deserved the long term high dollar rate right now. As much as I love Jax, he is dictating his future. It's fine to want the money as long as he realizes it comes with going to a price that is NOT tied to money (playing time and winning les).
I agree that the Spurs will not be the same without Speedy and Jax. But Speedy was never coming back, unless Tony was gone. And I would prefer my starting PG to be over 6 ft. I was never a big fan of AJ. As for Jax, he sealed his own fate. Like it or not, that is what happened.
Go Spurs...
Jackson's agent wanted 5-year/$28M, plus some sort of clause that he would start.
The Spurs aren't being cheap. They are being smart. You don't lock in a guy, who has a clutch but erratic game, for five years.
Plain and simple.
Ghost you need to learn how to read:
So that wasn't a 6 year, $42 million guaranteed offer. Just like I said.Anderson, however, was insulted that the deal wasn't fully guaranteed in the final season When team officials gave him a deadline of 2 p.m. Friday, he and agent Tony Dutt committed to Portland.
I was supporting your take, Marcus. Chill, man!
Ok. That would've been more clear if that section was highlighted.
Apology given.
I dropped the ball on that one. My bad.
Apology counteroffered.
P.S.
I concur on your thoughts in dealing with Anderson in the past and Jackson in the present. I would be so bold as to add that the Spurs would've taken both of those guards back in their own time and on their own terms.
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