Reply With Quote
Right now, it's the Pistons - by far.
Clippers are playing well too.
they(Detroit) don't play against defense minded teams until they play the Rockets and maybe,maybe Mavs.December they play vs the Spurs and Heat.I would even include Chicago,GS,and LAC as minor tests for this Detroit team.
We could be talking about peaking but the season is to young.Detroit is actually on of the teams that is playing the front 5 and has almost everyone from last year.
Right now, it's the Pistons - by far.
Clippers are playing well too.
Teams will hope that that happens. But, all of those starters except Rip were defensive minded players before Larry Brown, before Rick Carlisle. Would Bruce Bowen not be a good defensive player if Pop wasn't coaching him? Would Andrei Kirilenko stop playing all out on defense on a different team?
And, how does anyone know for sure that those same defensive schemes and habits are not being reinforced under Flip?
I think it's just a hope by fans of other teams ...
Like I have said before with the Pacers and now I will say it with Pistons.They beat the Suns barely w/o Amare. So far they have beaten weak teams or without their full team.
I was actually sort of hoping the Spurs would get such a break when playing the Rockets but it looks like Tmac will be back on the 17th.
The Pistons. They are not only doing on defense anymore. They are scoring a lot more than before. That's right now though. Who knows about a month or two months from now.
Pistons.
But it's really too early to judge the best team yet.
The Pistons are definintely playing the best ball right now. I have been watching a lot of League Pass and they are a notch above everybody else right now.
TD will be back and carry this team on his hulk back, when the good fellas return from injury, this team will continue to put the W's on the standings
The Pistons played a very tight, playoff-style rotation against PHX. Starters played 188 mins out of 240.
All 5 starters scored 15+ points, but only 17 pts from the bench.
The only nit on the Pistons right now is whether they're going with a playoff rotation in the first month of the season because they have to (due to a weak bench, like PHX last season), or because Flip is just indulging himself with a team more successful and talented than he ever had @MIN.
Whatever, the DET@PHX game was a playoff level of basketball.
I'd sure like to see the Spurs play/win a few games like that before next April.
I like detriot
If all the Pistons are self-motivated to do the little things that go into team defense, like the constant communication, and knowing which side of a player to guard when a certain pass is made, and thus and such, and don't need coaching to point out when things are getting out of kilter, then you are right.
However, that's very unlikely. I've never seen it before. My experience with the Spurs is that if Pop stops screaming at them for any length of time, their defensive intensity languishes, and that's even given the defensive mentality of so many of the players.
Well, we don't. But it was sick's assertion, based upon a decade of observation, that such attention is not part of Saunders' coaching philosophy.And, how does anyone know for sure that those same defensive schemes and habits are not being reinforced under Flip?
Your response to that was that it didn't matter because the players wouldn't forget what previous coaches had taught them. You did not respond by saying that Flip Saunders is still riding them hard to keep up their defensive effort. I believe the former point is invalid. I have no opinion about the latter point because I have no knowledge. You are the Pistons fan and would be in a better position to enlighten us whether that is in fact how Flip is coaching the team.
The scenario sick was laying out was one where all the newfound attention to offense translates into big wins early, but over time the lack of attention to other parts of the game, and Saunders' deference to his players when things aren't going right, catches up with them.
I don't think that is wishful thinking; I think it's plausible. Not certain by any means, but plausible.
I go thru this conversation alot in hockey forums, but at least there 15 games have been played (which is still a very incomplete portion to prognosticate).
Sure, Pistons look real good right now. I dont think its a stretch to say that they are playing this season like it actually means something.
But its 5 games in. If/when its 25 games in and they are 20-5, I will be right with the sentiment that they are the best team in the league.
But its 5 games. 2 reeeeeeeeal close games against a mediocre team (Boston) and an injured team (Phoenix). Granted, both games were on the road, so there is defiantely some solace to have in that.
But its 5 games...
You are right. Five games is too small a sample size to give a reliable extrapolation out to 82 games.But its 5 games...
However, this stretch has been impressive, and if it continued, the Pistons not only would be the best team right now, but the best team ever.
Unfortunately, the schedule-makers don't let them play Philadelphia and Toronto in 40% of their games.
As an aside, how long do you think it will be before the Raptors relocate? That franchise is completely dead.
I don't know what Flip's practices are like, or how much he emphasizes defensive intensity, schemes, or techniques on this particular team. I know what he says to the media, which may or may not be true. And, he says he will not slack on the defensive emphases that this team has been known for these last three years. Adding a defensive zone does not make this Pistons team a zone-oriented defense. If you watched last night's game, it was implemented last night in the second half after the Suns obviously exploited the middle with penetration. I think this Pistons team will still heavily rely on man-to-man zone.
When I say that these players won't forget the defensive principles and style of the previous coaches, it's not to say that they will be just as good as the last two years. But, it is to say that these players won't all of a sudden turn into the Phoenix team of last year. A few lapses on defense, a few more transition buckets allowed, should hopefully be offset by better offensive sets in the halfcourt and a few more transition buckets on offense themselves. Will they be a better or even equal defensive team as they were under Larry Brown? Probably not. Will they have a better offense? Probably. Finding that happy medium which will result in success is as good as we can ask for.
As for Flip as a coach in general, perhaps he'll have similar problems here in Detroit as he did in Minnesota. All I was intimating was the fact that people and coaches can learn from their past mistakes and improve from them. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Again, I remind you all that Larry Brown was considered a great coach who was unable to win the big series until he came to Detroit. Flip may or may not be the best fit for Detroit. I'm willing to see how things work out. ANd, if the Pistons stuble along the way this year, I just hope Flip learns from those obstacles so the team is better when the post-season comes around.
I'm not so unrealistic to think the Pistons are clear and away the best team in the league. I would be happy if the Pistons got anywhere close to 60 wins and have a high seed for the playoffs. I realize it's a long season and injuries, suspensions, slumps are all possibilities. I do know that if the Spurs, Pacers, or Heat were 5-0, there would be plenty of fans from those respective teams that would be really excited, and some that would be puffing their chests out claiming invincibility.
Right now it has to go to the Pistons. They are playing very good basketball right now.
I'll be at the game tonight versus the Pistons. If we don't shoot a high percentage we will get killed. You never know though...
Absolutely how I feel, exactly. There is going to be a trade-off. But I personally believe the trade-off is heavily in favor of Detroit.
Just wanted to re-iterate his point (because its a good one). I think most rational fans of any team look at 5-0 as a really good start. But its not how you start, its where you finish.
you gotta lend some credence to what sickdsm is saying. he spent years watching flip coach. i think it was a fair warning from him, not a slight against your team. flip's deficiencies as a coach didn't stop him from being a t-wolves fan.
Sure, people learn from there mistakes and sports fans are a very forgiving bunch. Didn't most of us give T.O. a clean slate saying it won't happan again? How about Peja in the playoffs year after year? Send Webber packing when he's the only one trying it seems?
Fact is that year after year the knocks on those wolves teams were always the same. It never got addressed. I don't need to even point them out because everyone knows what they were but i will anyway.
Giving up offensive rebounding due to overuse of zone defense.
Not getting opponents into foul trouble due to flips offensive strategy
Not getting to the FT line nearly enough.
Go ahead, say that its different bc of the personall, it sure is, maybe these won't be a problem with slashers on that team, but you CANNOT say that Flip will address these or any other problems because his track record says otherwise. If a problem comes up and the season ends on a sour note because of it, don't expect him to address it.
BTW, it will show up mainly during the playoffs because Flip has a nasty tendency to go zone too long at the wrong times when everyone knows the playoffs pick up. Zone is great when you throw it out there a play or a few to surprise them but just like in football, zone coverage is just that, a coverup. Remember, he's had some good defenders before, Sealy, KG, Trenton, Bobby Jackson, Billups, Lopez, etc...
He still threw that ing zone out on that ing court year after ing year, even when it wasn't legal.
Can you tell i hate overuse of zone defense?
If Flip overuses the zone with THIS team, I won't like it either.
And, as for addressing problems the Wolves had in the past, wasn't that mostly related to personnel? Wasn't that Kevin McHale's department? You can blame Flip for his part in Minnesota's problems in the playoffs, but give McHale his share of the blame. And, by the way, you should know better than everyone else here that the first 7 or so first round playoff exits Minnesota had were against better teams that had better records than the Wolves. The first time Minnesota had homecourt advantage was in 2003 against the three time defending championship LA Lakers, and Minnesota had a whopping ONE more regular season win than them. The following year, the Wolves went to the Western Conference championship series.
Throw out all the blame you want at Flip, but McHale was as big a culprit, and you have yet to mention him. Joe Smith and his agent deserve blame. The unfortunate death of Malik Sealy was very tough on that team whichever year that was.
Sure, it's a disappointment that the Wolves didn't get out of the first round more than once in 9 years. They were usually beat by the better team.
Thanks for the insight from somebody who's been watching Flip for years.
I hope that Flip might learn from his zone mistakes, and I'm pretty confident the organization (both players and management) will provide any help he needs on that count.
As for the best team in the NBA right now, it's clearly the Pistons. Hands down, no question about it. Unfortunately, right now is November, not June.
Having centers who can't rebound or do might've hurt Minnesota.
Can we just get the Spurs vs Pistons pt2 going right now!
Detroit hasn't played anyone good yet....
Did this thread get totally hijacked or did just about everyone miss SB's joke? Or was he joking? I know he lives in the DC area but damn...
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
