Hopefully they turn into Portland South.
But having four first ballot HOFers can't be bad.
The difference between Portland and LA is that once Portland realized their mix of players wasn't going to work, they still couldn't get rid of bad contracts (Damon Stoudamire for example). For the Lakers, they are paying next to nothing for both Payton and Malone, considering their talent level. They can easily cut their loses and move on, if this mix of players does not work.
Payton gives LA the playmaker they didn't have outside of Kobe himself...in addition to a reliable 3rd scorer on the perimeter. Payton can get the whole damn team involved. You are blind if you think Malone is more valuable than Payton.
I'm not going to get in a debate here....
Vs. Tony Parker, Nov. 24thHis defense is one of the most overrated in the league, he has lost several steps and can't defend any of the quicker points in the league
GP: 24 points, 10 for 21, 48% FG, 11 Assists
TP: 16 points, 7 for 20, 35% FG, 5 assists (Parker 14% from 3 pt.
Vs. Jason Kidd, Dec. 1st
GP: 28 points, 13 for 19, 68% FG, 4 assists
JK: 27 points, 9 for 22, 41% FG, 8 assists
OTHER GAMES:
Dec. 23: Stephon Marbury - 8 Points, 3 of 12, 25% FG
Jan. 19: Steve Nash - 14 points, 4-13, 31% FG
These are just a few of the defensive efforts where GP holds some of the leauges "quicker point guards" to totals way below their averages.
To say Payton is a poor defender is a joke.
--Obie
Garnett - Small Forward1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Nowitzki (if you call him a PF)
4. Webber
5. 'Sheed
Nowitzki - Small Forward
Malone is top 5 any way you look at it.
--obie
Malone top 5, maybe a few years ago obie, but now there are at least 5 guys better then him. Duncan, J. O'neal, Elton Brand, Chris Webber, and Kenyon Martin. And I didnt even use Garnett or Dirk even though they are PF's.
So why dont you just jump off the damn malone/Payton bandwagon and stop saying players are better then they are just cause they are on your favorite Team...(You dont here me saying Pau Gasol is the best international player around just cause I like the grizzlies) A week ago you would have said malone is too old and needs to retire.
It would be important for Malone to be a top 5 PF, if he was the focal point of the Lakers. But he isn't going to be asked to produce superstar type numbers, so why is the fact that Duncan or Webber is superior to Malone to important to most people? Malone is coming in to be a ROLE player, and he's definitely an upgrade over Horry as a starter.
When you have Shaq and Kobe on your team- picking up Malik Rose to be your starting 4 and Speedy Claxton to be your starting 1 would be a great offseason.
When you have Shaq and Kobe on your team- picking up Karl Malone to be your 4 and Gary Payton to be your 1 for chump change is one of the biggest coups in NBA history.
Great time to be a Laker fan.
Just to clarify my comment, I think Malone and Payton are great additions to any team, and can only make the lakers better. But Obie was going on and on about how malone is a top 5 PF and the fact of the matter is that he was a top 5 pf and possibly one of the top 5 PF's of all time, but in 2003 malone probably isnt even top 10. that doesnt mean he wont be effective, and when you start talking about Malone being the 3rd or 4th option on a team, well thats just scary...
obie, Garnett and Nowitzki are both clearly power forwards (despite the fact that they can and have played the small forward position. Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Webber, R. Wallace, Brand, J. O'Neal, and B. Wallace are all better than Malone.
Get with it.
Ok, its hard to say this, but i guess i was wrong
Nowitzki and Garnett would be SF ideally. Their current situations have them at Power Forward, but in terms of the way they play, I would classify them as SF. But, technically, they are PF's.
Malone is probably not top 5. He is in my opinion definetely top 10. But, Adidas is right, they don't need him to put up Top 5 or even Top 10 numbers.
He is a perfect fit for the Lakers, Professor. You cannot deny this.
--obie
Just wondering:
How did that quote from Iceman Cometh make it to the front page of the website? It was complete crap.
--Obie
Obie, First off, that quote is better than anything you have ever said, or ever will say for that matter.
Malone and payton a perfect fit? I dont know about that, but when you take into consideration the amount of cap space they had it was about as close to perfect as possible. I dont think they could have gotton anyone else that good to play for that little of money. But if you are trying to say that if the lakers had as much cap room as the spurs or nuggets that they would go after malone and payton instead of other free agents you are sorely mistaken. I mean i would think they would rather go with younger guys. For example Im sure Gilbert Arenas would love to come home to L.A. to play for the lakers, and he would fit in well there. And assuming the clips would let him go Im sure any NBA team would take Brand over Malone. So ya post something else buddy, cause Im a little bored and you make it so easy to make you look dumb...
Untill the next Obie post....
The Professor
hahaha is this guy joking?
is that not what i said?Malone and payton a perfect fit? I dont know about that, but when you take into consideration the amount of cap space they had it was about as close to perfect as possible.
Actually, I don't think the Lakers need younger guys. They are not taking a long term (meaning 5+ years) view at this. They are looking for the next 2-4 seasons. Shaq has a few more years left, as well as Phil and most of the supporting cast. 5 years from now the Lakers will be a completely different team, and hopefully they will build around Kobe.I mean i would think they would rather go with younger guys. For example Im sure Gilbert Arenas would love to come home to L.A. to play for the lakers, and he would fit in well there. And assuming the clips would let him go Im sure any NBA team would take Brand over Malone.
But they are not rebuilding right now, they are re-loading. They don't want to bring in Gilbert Arenas and Elton Brand. While Malone and Payton are not as athletic and might not be able to score as much, they bring something that the young guys do not. The Lakers need guys that are not hungry for the ball as much as they are hungry for a ring.
And regardless, it is a mute point, because the Lakers do not have the money to get these guys. When I said "perfect fit", I meant perfect for the situation the Lakers are in. If you had some common sense, you would understand this. Or maybe perfect would be signing Tim Duncan and Jason Kidd for minimum, and trading Rick Fox for KG straight up. Gimme a break man.
hmmm....So ya post something else buddy, cause Im a little bored and you make it so easy to make you look dumb...
Stop the personal attacks and use some common sense. I just hope your not going to be a lawyer.
--Obie
Obie, I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public. Elton Brand is a great fit for the Lakers. He doesnt demand the ball. He hits the boards hard, and im sure if you asked him he would say he would rather be a 3rd option and see his points go down some to really contribute to a team that wins a championship. I mean its not like he has a chance to be the NBA's all time leading scorer or anything. Ya malone wants the ring more, but I think that the scoring le still would mean a lot to him. the lakers dont need leadership. They allready have it in Shaq and Kobe. I think they would have just as good if not a better shot at winning it all with arenas and brand as opposed to malone and payton, plus by doing that they would get guys who can play in the future along side kobe. Of course this whole topic is stupid seeing as how the lakers cant sign those guys, and I think we both agree that the lakers did as well as they could possibly do given there situation. Next time be a little more carefull about throwing around the word perfect so we wont have misunderstandings like this.
And as for the personal attacks, tell ya what, I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter. I mean come on man, look at your posts, I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.
but hey all jokes aside, I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid.....
The Professor
Riiiiiiight. I'm sure Elton Brand would love to be the 3rd or 4th option on a team, when he as it the age when he is playing for max contracts and such.
Like it or not, these were HUGE pick ups for LA. And obie is correct. This move is NOT for the long term, but for the next 2 to 3 years. They are trying to maximize the Shaq/Kobe union as long as they can, and all they need to do is reload each year when it's possible. The Lakers could not have asked for a better offseason than this. As long as Payton and Malone are willing to settle in as role players, they can be very effective, so now the Lakers are essentially above average at every position on the floor, besides small forward. And if Rick Fox makes it back healthy, they'll have an excellent rotation with two small forwards who both play solid defense (Fox and George)
aye......there's the rub. Can they? We can all speculate but it remains to be seen, if they can pull it off, 4 les in 5 years.As long as Payton and Malone are willing to settle in as role players, they can be very effective
Not exactly."Payton gives LA the playmaker they didn't have outside of Kobe himself...in addition to a reliable 3rd scorer on the perimeter. Payton can get the whole damn team involved. You are blind if you think Malone is more valuable than Payton." — Archie
Payton > Malone
For what the Lakers needed, Malone is more of the necessity.
Next.
Quote: "For what the Lakers needed, Malone is more of the necessity."
Especially for their current situation. Techinically, the Lakers do not have a power forward on their roster, since they "let go" Robert Horry for the time being. Malone is the more important pickup position wise.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I would say it was pretty damn close to "perfect" for the Lakers.The Lakers could not have asked for a better offseason than this.
Elton Brand took 900 shots last year. A Lakers PF can take 400, maybe 500 shots a year, but they aren't going to get the touches that a young, aspiring superstar would like. I wouldn't think Malone would work either, except for that fact that he is making this choice to be in a lesser role for a championship. He is at this point in his career where he has shown what he can do individually, and now he wants to win. I don't think Brand would want this kind of a role at this point in his career.Elton Brand is a great fit for the Lakers. He doesnt demand the ball. He hits the boards hard, and im sure if you asked him he would say he would rather be a 3rd option and see his points go down some to really contribute to a team that wins a championship.
Malone is not going to sign with the Lakers and expect to score enough to break the record. He is making a decision between the two.Ya malone wants the ring more, but I think that the scoring le still would mean a lot to him.
it can't hurt. payton and malone each have two trips to the finals. they've been there.the lakers dont need leadership.
WTF???I mean come on man, look at your posts, I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.
--obie
Lakers moves dont scare me at all.
:brotha
For you Tony Parker idol worshippers, that would mean that he gets to face the full intensity of 1 Gary Payton. Its funny that some posters say that GP was used & abused by TP in that playoff series. I beg to differ but hope that that can happen for real if it comes down to it.The Spurs' strategy for defending LA was to let Shaq and Kobe get theirs and shut down the supporting cast. The method was to use Bowen's D on Kobe to force Kobe to work for his while staying at home on the other Lakers. Say what you will, but GP is still a pretty damn good 1 on 1 player.
That defensive philosophy must continue. 4 down slow ball is the only way to keep the games within reach but having a transition game to offset it would be an advantage.
t yeah... Heart is what matters.
Duff, this is a joke, right?Lakers moves dont scare me at all.
exactly, Kohai...For you Tony Parker idol worshippers, that would mean that he gets to face the full intensity of 1 Gary Payton. Its funny that some posters say that GP was used & abused by TP in that playoff series. I beg to differ but hope that that can happen for real if it comes down to it.
the Sonics game plan was to double Payton on duncan and make Parker beat them...Payton was hardly used and abused by parker in that series...
Not even counting the improved offense, this Lakers team should be a GREAT defensive team...they will give turnover prone teams like the Spurs fits...
Exactly CC. Nets had that same strategy for the first few games in the Finals. TP went off. By Game 6 TP was watching the end of the game on the bench.
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