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What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
I have it on the highest authority.
So whats the proper translation?
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
I have it on the highest authority.
That's the equivalent of "tell me who are your friends, I'll tell you who you are."
lanta was not the best place for Murray to be, especially with his immaturity and gangsta lifestyle. He needs to be in Utah or Milwaukee.
They’ve drafted plenty of promising role players: Huerter, John Collins, AJ Griffith, Jalen Johnson. Cam Reddish busted. Deandre Hunter hasn’t overwhelmed. I think OO is fine. So I don’t see them as failing at drafting overall.
Lonnie Walker, Sad Luka, and Primo—those are failures. No team is perfect.
Never said we were perfect, and none of these players were top 10 picks, while all of the three ATL draft picks I listed were. Compare those three top 10 ATL picks with DJ, White, and Keldon, all picked at#29, and they seriously fail the test.
No, I initially said they had picked solid role players. You didn’t like that and for some reason switched to talking about their higher picks that didn’t live up to expectations. I went back to my initial point and listed several of their role players who were good pick ups. You’re trying to win an argument that I wasn’t even suggesting.
Who cares about solid role players in the top 10? You can get those anywhere in the first round. My contention was that they don’t draft well for the position of their picks, and I’ll stand by that.
Yeah, sorry. Why is the bar lower for Atlanta on what players they picked up in the lottery? People here would whine and moan if the Spurs have had that many high picks only to come out with those group of players.
No, not really. I made a small comment that Atlanta drafted some good role players. John Collins and Huerter at 19 is actually pretty good, among other more recent picks, like AJ Griffith in the teens and Jalen Johnson at 20. I never said anything about defending their top ten picks or lowering the bar. So no, I’m not defending something I didn’t claim. But carry on.
Lonnie, Luka were low picks. Not many in the NBA last that long in those picks. Primo was a necessary hit and miss.
Like Giannis said, “it’s a process.”
Your words: “you dont see them failing at drafting overall”. This is defending their top ten picks because consensus is that if you don’t draft a star in that range, it’s a failure.
Or, they picked up enough good pieces later that I don’t see it as some abject failure like you do. But whatever. In the larger scheme, Atlanta’s biggest problem is not players busting, they have decent talent, but chaotic ownership and other internal personality issues and drama and an inability to manage it. Not too much more to say on my end. You guys seem much more passionate about this than me.
Since 2016, Atlanta rates as about average in terms of their drafting:
https://braydengerrard.shinyapps.io/Draft_Scores/
I like the Luck Factor chart. Atlanta is unlucky and slightly below average at drafting. Whereas the Spurs are unlucky and good at drafting.
Great article on this data science approach to draft grading: https://towardsdatascience.com/which...g-20070ccd1702
Cool insights , Didn't expect Lakers to be good drafting. Always thought they don't draft well and some star player just magically appears because they're Lakers.
DLo
BI
Julius Randle
Each made an All Star team AFTER the Lakers sent them packing. They draft well, but don’t build well.
The "ability" might have just been a strong coaching presence in Pop and a good-headed, vet-led team, but cases like the Parker story (I think) actually reinforce how valuable that is, instead of diminishing it. We don't know if his agent told him something or not, and there have been many cases of players without real trade value "lashing out" (most recently Bones in Denver e.g.).
The fact remains that he evidently "pushed back" a lot of behavior while in SA, that immediately came to light when he stepped into ATL. Remember him smacking people in the head with the ball in like, offseason Pro-AM league? Guy didn't waste a second to let it out
Agree for sure. That interview was disgusting. What an en led POS he turned out to be. And you know? It's one of the reasons having good support around you is crucial - I watched the video of him going at the ref like an idiot, and immediatly thought of Timmy pulling Manu/Tony away from trouble when things got heated. Good leadership keeps people in check and deescalates - and DJ's a terrible leader.
The more time passes, the happier I am with the decision the Spurs took with DJ. Great evaluation. For a FO so criticized, there are many teams in the league that would've chosen to continue building around the homegrown, fan-favorite "leader" instead of looking at the long-term picture.
Spurs getting lucky in the lottery would be icing on the cake, but the rebuild is coming along nicely already and ATL investing in DJ is the best we can hope for. Popcorn for sure
Some interesting observations: 1. Toronto was both the best drafting team and the luckiest. 2. Dallas was the 3rd most lucky, but still the 2nd worst drafting team. That's even with drafting LD. That makes the trade for Irving look better (LOL) as they were likely to screw up any draft choices anyway. 3. If you look at the Spurs for since 2019 they drop to a below average drafting team with a negative score. That jives with the eye test--passing on Haliburton and Sengun.
That's not what dropped us. It was Lonnie, Sammich, and Primo.
I don't fault the Spurs for Lonnie, outside of the lottery that '18 draft just wasn't very good, only a few decent prospects left: Huerter, Robert Williams, Jalen Brunson, Mitch.ell Robinson, Gary Trent Junior, Jarred Vanderbilt. Other than Jalen Brunson (who wasn't expected to translate as well as he did, plus a crowded guard rotation) they're all role players, and on paper Lonnie had the higher upside.
In 2019 we took Samanich with Thybulle, Brandon Clarke, Grant Williams, Jordan Poole (thought to be a reach at 28 at the time), Keldon Johnson, Nick Claxton, Talen Horton Tucker, Terance Mann, Jalen McDaniels still on the board, but again, the only one that shouldn't have been passed over was Keldon (who we ended up getting later on anyways), the rest may be better now but it wasn't a lock back then and even so aren't all that special to begin with. So it wasn't an especially bad or costly miss.
In 2020 we took Vassell with Haliburton, Desmond Bane, Tyrese Maxey, Jaden McDaniels still on the board. The one obvious miss was Haliburton (duh) but we already had Dejounte & Derrick White, and Vassell was supposed to be the 2 guard / wing with the better fit / upside combo, so it's still a mistake but an understandable one. Also we picked up Tre Jones at 41, which was great value as (at least) a very good backup PG.
Then we come to 2021, where we took Primo over Sengun, Trey Murphy, Herb Jones. This one stings the most, because even if doesn't come at a huge cost (I like Sengun, but I don't see him as a future All NBA guy, though maybe an occasional all star like Vucevic was), it was the most predictable of the bunch. In hindsight though, I might take Trey Murphy, who won't be a star but he's a perfect 3&D guy for a winning team.
The 2022 draft went perfect as far as I'm concerned, we came away with the exact same guys I wanted, only player I'd really like to have landed (in hindsight, not at the time) is Walker Kessler.
All things considered we didn't make many home runs (Keldon was good but doesn't qualify as such) but no blunders either (unless you think Sengun will become All NBA at some point). I'd give the FO a B/B+ when it comes to drafting in the past few years (an A should include a star or borderline with a lower pick, like Jokic at 41, Bane at 30, Brunson at 35, etc).
This upcoming draft is the one with the highest risks, when you pick that high any mistake comes at a huge cost, so let's hope luck smiles at us, and we don't drop the ball, otherwise it's going to haunt us for years and years.
I remember Duarte, Sengun and Garuba being guys frequently talked about here. Duarte had a nice rookie year but took a step back in year 2, was he hurt? I don't follow the Pacers so that surprised me to see in the stats. The Haliburton/Mathurin effect?. Garuba looks destine to be a career bench warmer.
I'm with you on Sengun. Don't lose any sleep over missing that pick.
Interestingly, those aren't the picks that rates the Lakers as a good drafting team. In this methodology, picks are rated -1.0 (terrible) to 1.0 (excellent) with a 0 being average
DLo gets a 0.36 or "Good" rating
Ingram is 0.1 or "Average"
Randle os 0.57 or "Good"
The Lakers best picks by this methodology were
Jordan Clarkson - perfect 1.0 rating
Larry Nance - 0.9
Ivica Zubac - 0.86
Josh Hart - 0.99
Getting value from later picks really boosts you up in this methodology.
For the extended 2009-2021 range, the Lakers have 4 excellent picks, 8 good, 13 average, 2 bad and 0 terrible picks.
By comparison, the Spurs have 6 excellent picks (Nephew, Bertans, DJM, Derrick, Keldon, Tre Jones), 5 Good (including three borderline excellent picks in Kyle Anderson at 0.86, Metu at 0.87 and Eubanks at 0.89*), 13 average, 6 bad and 0 terrible. Lonnie is actually rated the Spurs worst draft pick at -0.69, Luka and Primo are the 2nd and 3rd worst.
Here are the most terrible picks, starting with the absolute worst:
Anthony Bennett - CLE #1 overall
Marvin Bagley III - SAC #2 overall
Patrick Williams - CHI #4 overall
Jalen Green - HOU #2 overall
Ekpe Udoh - GSW #6 overall
Sekou Doumbouya - DET #15 overall
Kevin Knox II - NYK #9 overall
Ben McLemore - SAC #7 overall
James Wiseman - GSW #2 overall
*This methodology includes undrafted rookies, which does skew things a little bit.
'14 Clarkson 46th (by Wizards; acquired rights during draft)
'15 Nance Jr. 27th
'16 Zubac 32nd
'17 Kuzma 27th (by Nets; acquired rights during draft) and Hart 30th (by Jazz; acquired rights during draft)
'18 Wagner 25th and Mykhailiuk 47th
Is a ridiculous run by the Lakers that'd be incessantly slobbered over if it were the Warriors or Craptors.
No. If you move the dates to 2019 to 2021 that’s when we drop. Lonnie and Luka were not drafted during that time period. Only Primo which was the pass on Sengun.
Luka was drafted in 2019.
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