The Search for a Second Star

[LeBowen]

His defense cant even be compared to Draymond's at this point. His court vision, handle, etc are all good. As for his shooting, I'm NOT saying he can't become an average threat from deep. He is working hard on that and i believe it's within his reach. I'm just saying he's going to have to have that as part of his game to reach an all-star level.

We seem to have two prevailing views...the Mr Body camp that he's a can't miss all-star and the rascal camp that he's never going to be an All-star. I'm in neither.... I think he's got a chance, even a better chance than alot of others, but hes going to have to become a threat from deep to achieve it.

It can't be compared right now, I agree, but he has all the tools necessary.
And since he'll be playing with Victor, he's obviously going to be more of a 1v1 defender than playing safety like Draymond does.

Something like 15/8/5 with elite defense would be my projection for Jeremy.

[mo7888]

It can't be compared right now, I agree, but he has all the tools necessary.
And since he'll be playing with Victor, he's obviously going to be more of a 1v1 defender than playing safety like Draymond does.

Something like 15/8/5 with elite defense would be my projection for Jeremy.

Victor is going to help everybody.... but the discussion I was referring to was about Sochan beciming an all-star. For that, he'll need to learn to shoot. Can he? I think so, but I wanna see it before I get to excited about that..

[LeBowen]

Victor is going to help everybody.... but the discussion I was referring to was about Sochan beciming an all-star. For that, he'll need to learn to shoot. Can he? I think so, but I wanna see it before I get to excited about that..

Do you think a 15/8/5 DPOY candidate can be an all-star?

All-star selections are often about team's success.
If Spurs are one of the top teams in the league, he'll probably get one or two apperances.

There's no doubt that he'll be the vocal leader of the team and that's worth a lot when it comes to media and fan perception.
Would anyone be rating Draymond if he was a silent guy without any personality?

[mo7888]

Do you think a 15/8/5 DPOY candidate can be an all-star?

All-star selections are often about team's success.
If Spurs are one of the top teams in the league, he'll probably get one or two apperances.

There's no doubt that he'll be the vocal leader of the team and that's worth a lot when it comes to media and fan perception.
Would anyone be rating Draymond if he was a silent guy without any personality?

I think it really depends on how he gets it, but I doubt that hets him in.. hopefully hos shot develops

[RC_Drunkford]

I get that shooting is even more important in today's NBA, but ST becomes obsessed with it in this insane, almost psychotic way.

and you're obsessed with players who can't shoot

[RC_Drunkford]

the thing about Sochan is we have seen him shoot fadeaway jumpers out of a spin move and hit them consistently. That's not some role player move. If he can hit the 3 consistently he can become a problem on offense. He's already to quick for bigs and can post up smaller players. If he has a jump shot, there's no telling how far his offense can develop

[JuneJive]

This season will show what works and what/who doesn't.

Good thing is all the guys have potential, some more than the others, but all in all, a promising core to build around.

I think the second / third star will come within the existing core.

Eventually, a couple of bolstering moves will be made, no doubt.

[SpursFan86]

Seems funny to me that Spurs fans would think you need a clear-cut “2nd star”. Is everyone forgetting 2014? We didn’t have a 2nd star… we didn’t even really have a first star You could argue Kawhi broke out in the playoffs but the reality is we didn’t have a single 20 ppg scorer in the regular season or postseason.

Not saying that was a normal le team; there were obviously a lot of things we’ll never be able to recreate with that team (big 3 leadership + motivation after the devastating loss in 2013) but the point is that we’ve seen a team be dominant with a well-rounded approach. If Victor truly is the real deal, he’d have a far greater impact than anyone on that 2014 le team. I see no reason why we couldn’t win a le just by surrounding him with several really good players in their own role as opposed to what people are talking about in here with needing some 20 ppg+ clear-cut all star.

If Vassell and Sochan reach their ceiling potential, that’d already put us well on our way. Let’s pretend Vassell turns into a Khris Middleton and Sochan turns into a Draymond Green-type guy…those 2 + Wembanyama would be a of a big 3, even if Sochan and Vassell aren’t 20+ ppg guys. Throw in Branham being a 6th man of the year caliber guy off the bench…that’s a really solid foundation.

I’m absolutely not saying we don’t need to make any moves and we’ll just win a le with this core in 2-3 years. Inevitably guys will disappoint and not reach their potential (for example maybe Branham flames out). Just arguing against the notion that we need a definitive 2nd option to be a le team. You can have a le-contender team made up of several elite “role players”, especially if we’re operating under the assumption that Victor will be an all-time great player.

[JPB]

Seems funny to me that Spurs fans would think you need a clear-cut “2nd star”. Is everyone forgetting 2014? We didn’t have a 2nd star… we didn’t even really have a first star You could argue Kawhi broke out in the playoffs but the reality is we didn’t have a single 20 ppg scorer in the regular season or postseason.

Not saying that was a normal le team; there were obviously a lot of things we’ll never be able to recreate with that team (big 3 leadership + motivation after the devastating loss in 2013) but the point is that we’ve seen a team be dominant with a well-rounded approach. If Victor truly is the real deal, he’d have a far greater impact than anyone on that 2014 le team. I see no reason why we couldn’t win a le just by surrounding him with several really good players in their own role as opposed to what people are talking about in here with needing some 20 ppg+ clear-cut all star.

If Vassell and Sochan reach their ceiling potential, that’d already put us well on our way. Let’s pretend Vassell turns into a Khris Middleton and Sochan turns into a Draymond Green-type guy…those 2 + Wembanyama would be a of a big 3, even if Sochan and Vassell aren’t 20+ ppg guys. Throw in Branham being a 6th man of the year caliber guy off the bench…that’s a really solid foundation.

I’m absolutely not saying we don’t need to make any moves and we’ll just win a le with this core in 2-3 years. Inevitably guys will disappoint and not reach their potential (for example maybe Branham flames out). Just arguing against the notion that we need a definitive 2nd option to be a le team. You can have a le-contender team made up of several elite “role players”, especially if we’re operating under the assumption that Victor will be an all-time great player.

Kawhi wasn't the second star in the 2014 finals, he was the first, next to Duncan, TP and Manu.

TP got his finals MVP too, along with 6ths All Star appareances and finished 5th once in the regular season MVP race. That's what you call a star. Manu didn't have more than 2 all star selections because he was a sixth man but we all know he was a star.... Reason they were called the Big 3 (stars).

And 2014 was the most beautiful BB ever played, that's nothing you can mimick or reproduce deliberatly. It just magically happened with the right combniation of players at the right time. End of story, you need at least two big stars to ring.

[Obstructed_View]

There is extreme blind optimism after getting lucky with Wemby thinking the current roster is good as it is.

Outside of Wemby the roster is the worst in the league. And no Sochan and Vassell are not future all star level players.

Still need to surround Wemby with a better core.

I feel exactly the opposite from you. We shall see who is right.

[ginobilized]

I fully understand the le of this thread, 2nd star search.

However, I have a feeling that Tre Jones will be a better player with Wemby. Not a 2nd star by any means. But, he might have the most to gain from having Wemby on board.
If his 3pt shot develops, he might surprise some folks. He already excels at a bunch of other valuable skills: natural leader, gets the team in its sets, harassing defender, highly coachable, hustle machine. He averaged over 6 assists last season.

Can't wait to find out how this squad develops.

[Obstructed_View]

Nobody can legitimately make that argument based on what we've seen from Sochan.

I would.

[SpursFan86]

Kawhi wasn't the second star in the 2014 finals, he was the first, next to Duncan, TP and Manu.

TP got his finals MVP too, along with 6ths All Star appareances and finished 5th once in the regular season MVP race. That's what you call a star. Manu didn't have more than 2 all star selections because he was a sixth man but we all know he was a star.... Reason they were called the Big 3 (stars).

I’d rather avoid arguing the semantics of what defines a “star”, but in my opinion none of those guys were consistently playing at a true “star” level throughout the entire season. Members of the big 3 would have their games where they showed flashbacks to their prime, but none of them were top 15 players in the league that year IMO. Also TP didn’t win final FMVP in 2014.

My point is that the 2014 team’s dominance wasn’t rooted in having some first or 2nd clear-cut option who consistently took over games. It was a well-rounded team where you could hardly predict who would be the leading scorer on any given night. In the playoffs we had 4 guys averaging 14-17 ppg, and then another four averaging 7-10 ppg. If you want to argue that all four of the big 3 + Kawhi were “stars” in 2014 then go for it but personally I think that’s a stretch.

[Obstructed_View]

His defense cant even be compared to Draymond's at this point. His court vision, handle, etc are all good. As for his shooting, I'm NOT saying he can't become an average threat from deep. He is working hard on that and i believe it's within his reach. I'm just saying he's going to have to have that as part of his game to reach an all-star level.

We seem to have two prevailing views...the Mr Body camp that he's a can't miss all-star and the rascal camp that he's never going to be an All-star. I'm in neither.... I think he's got a chance, even a better chance than alot of others, but hes going to have to become a threat from deep to achieve it.

I think he can be an outstanding pro for a number of years even if his three doesn't ever develop, but watching him working on his form during the season, I simply don't believe that he is the type of guy who won't find a way to become a good shooter.

[Obstructed_View]

I’d rather avoid arguing the semantics of what defines a “star”, but in my opinion none of those guys were consistently playing at a true “star” level throughout the entire season. Members of the big 3 would have their games where they showed flashbacks to their prime, but none of them were top 15 players in the league that year IMO. Also TP didn’t win final FMVP in 2014.

My point is that the 2014 team’s dominance wasn’t rooted in having some first or 2nd clear-cut option who consistently took over games. It was a well-rounded team where you could hardly predict who would be the leading scorer on any given night. In the playoffs we had 4 guys averaging 14-17 ppg, and then another four averaging 7-10 ppg. If you want to argue that all four of the big 3 + Kawhi were “stars” in 2014 then go for it but personally I think that’s a stretch.

I'll come out and say that Kawhi showed signs of becoming a star in 2014 but he didn't show up the first two games of the finals. The FMVP was his as much as 2007's was TP's, which is to say only because of Timmy.

[Das Texan]

Its also hard to judge the guys on the current roster when none of them had a great star around them to pivot off of.

[Obstructed_View]

the thing about Sochan is we have seen him shoot fadeaway jumpers out of a spin move and hit them consistently. That's not some role player move. If he can hit the 3 consistently he can become a problem on offense. He's already to quick for bigs and can post up smaller players. If he has a jump shot, there's no telling how far his offense can develop

He and Wemby together are going to absolutely terrorize the NBA. I'm so excited to see it.

[SpursFan86]

End of story, you need at least two big stars to ring.

Who was Golden State’s 2nd big star in 2022? Klay Thompson averaging 19 ppg in the playoffs playing heavy minutes on mediocre efficiency? Sure he was a star by name recognition, but post injury Klay was not playing at the level of a “big star” unless you have a very generous definition. If Draymond was a “big star” in 2022 (far worse player than he was in his prime) then I see no reason Sochan can’t play at that level. Are we going to call Jordan Poole a “big star”?

[SpursFan86]

I'll come out and say that Kawhi showed signs of becoming a star in 2014 but he didn't show up the first two games of the finals. The FMVP was his as much as 2007's was TP's, which is to say only because of Timmy.

He absolutely showed signs of it and it was his coming out party to an extent, but you said it yourself: it’s not like it was a consistent night in/night out thing. He wasn’t particularly effective in our hardest series that year against OKC. I really don’t think you can call 2014 Kawhi a “big star” unless you’re just focusing on the highs and ignoring the times where he was dropping 12 ppg.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’d rather avoid arguing the semantics of what defines a “star”, but in my opinion none of those guys were consistently playing at a true “star” level throughout the entire season. Members of the big 3 would have their games where they showed flashbacks to their prime, but none of them were top 15 players in the league that year IMO. Also TP didn’t win final FMVP in 2014.

My point is that the 2014 team’s dominance wasn’t rooted in having some first or 2nd clear-cut option who consistently took over games. It was a well-rounded team where you could hardly predict who would be the leading scorer on any given night. In the playoffs we had 4 guys averaging 14-17 ppg, and then another four averaging 7-10 ppg. If you want to argue that all four of the big 3 + Kawhi were “stars” in 2014 then go for it but personally I think that’s a stretch.

I don't think the 2014 team can be used as an example. We had 4 hall of famers on that team. 1 before his prime and 3 past theirs, although you could say Tony was still at the end of his. You can't replicate that . Those guys were still superstars, old or not.

[RC_Drunkford]

Who was Golden State’s 2nd big star in 2022? Klay Thompson averaging 19 ppg in the playoffs playing heavy minutes on mediocre efficiency? Sure he was a star by name recognition, but post injury Klay was not playing at the level of a “big star” unless you have a very generous definition. If Draymond was a “big star” in 2022 (far worse player than he was in his prime) then I see no reason Sochan can’t play at that level. Are we going to call Jordan Poole a “big star”?

again 3 hall of famers. Old, coming off injuries or not, hall of famers are a different breed. Also both teams had a player who has won MVP before on the squad.

[Mr. Body]

Warriors won in 2022 mostly because someone had to. The whole league was terrible that year, Denver was hurt, and the Celtics are pathetic. Cheapest ring in a long time.

[R. DeMurre]

Seems funny to me that Spurs fans would think you need a clear-cut “2nd star”. Is everyone forgetting 2014? We didn’t have a 2nd star… we didn’t even really have a first star You could argue Kawhi broke out in the playoffs but the reality is we didn’t have a single 20 ppg scorer in the regular season or postseason.

Not saying that was a normal le team; there were obviously a lot of things we’ll never be able to recreate with that team (big 3 leadership + motivation after the devastating loss in 2013) but the point is that we’ve seen a team be dominant with a well-rounded approach. If Victor truly is the real deal, he’d have a far greater impact than anyone on that 2014 le team. I see no reason why we couldn’t win a le just by surrounding him with several really good players in their own role as opposed to what people are talking about in here with needing some 20 ppg+ clear-cut all star.

If Vassell and Sochan reach their ceiling potential, that’d already put us well on our way. Let’s pretend Vassell turns into a Khris Middleton and Sochan turns into a Draymond Green-type guy…those 2 + Wembanyama would be a of a big 3, even if Sochan and Vassell aren’t 20+ ppg guys. Throw in Branham being a 6th man of the year caliber guy off the bench…that’s a really solid foundation.

I’m absolutely not saying we don’t need to make any moves and we’ll just win a le with this core in 2-3 years. Inevitably guys will disappoint and not reach their potential (for example maybe Branham flames out). Just arguing against the notion that we need a definitive 2nd option to be a le team. You can have a le-contender team made up of several elite “role players”, especially if we’re operating under the assumption that Victor will be an all-time great player.

Kawhi wasn't a star yet in the traditional sense, but his impact stats were already the best on the team. He had the same Drtg as Duncan, which was tied for first as the best on that team, and the highest ORtg on the team. He also led the team in BPM, VORP, and WS. His impact stats for the season were better than everybody's on the Heat that year except for LeBron.

[JPB]

I’d rather avoid arguing the semantics of what defines a “star”, but in my opinion none of those guys were consistently playing at a true “star” level throughout the entire season. Members of the big 3 would have their games where they showed flashbacks to their prime, but none of them were top 15 players in the league that year IMO. Also TP didn’t win final FMVP in 2014.

My point is that the 2014 team’s dominance wasn’t rooted in having some first or 2nd clear-cut option who consistently took over games. It was a well-rounded team where you could hardly predict who would be the leading scorer on any given night. In the playoffs we had 4 guys averaging 14-17 ppg, and then another four averaging 7-10 ppg. If you want to argue that all four of the big 3 + Kawhi were “stars” in 2014 then go for it but personally I think that’s a stretch.

that's precisely because they were playing team ball that none off them was standing out... But potentially they were all stars who accepted to cut their stats and accolades to the benefice of the team... And TP was actually an all star in 2014. Tim was not because Pop cut his time to 30 min a game and Manu becasue he was 6th man. then Kawhi happened during the finals.

Maybe more than stars, whe should talk about star power, specially when it matters the most.

[KobesAchilles]

I fully understand the le of this thread, 2nd star search.

However, I have a feeling that Tre Jones will be a better player with Wemby. Not a 2nd star by any means. But, he might have the most to gain from having Wemby on board.
If his 3pt shot develops, he might surprise some folks. He already excels at a bunch of other valuable skills: natural leader, gets the team in its sets, harassing defender, highly coachable, hustle machine. He averaged over 6 assists last season.

Can't wait to find out how this squad develops.

The dude is a back up. We need an actual PG of starter quality.