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Duncan played in a more compe ive era and was more efficient in the playoffs
Yes I recall and became the messenger that got shot for saying it, LOL.
Actually I assumed a few good Spurs fans would speak up for the Admiral, seeings how great a player he was and and even better person. That said, I’m as big a DRob fan as anyone. The idea was coupling DRobs talents with some more fundamentals and/or post moves. Imagine that! The what could have been element.
On the sky hook topic, to me it will all boil down to whether it is a high percentage shot. Do we have any idea if Kareem’s was or did it mostly just look great on the highlights?
Edit: it was an easy Google to find this link estimating the Kareem sky hook at 50 FG%:
https://www.sbnation.com/platform/am...m-abdul-jabbar
Last edited by Knoxxx; 07-23-2023 at 12:42 PM.
Duncan played in a more compe ive era and was more efficient in the playoffs
One very interesting angle for me is the possible connection of the sky hook to Kareem's longevity-- as a shot it has less physicality attached to it than a typical paint post move. It's hard to make a definite connection, but Kareem's longevity and durability were legendary-- 11 seasons of 80 or more games played, and 18 seasons of 70 or more. Is it possible to view the sky hook as a relative to a type of load management, but one that discards sitting? I think it's a reasonable theory.
Yup, Kareem retired at 42 with mind boggling availability, this is the breakdown of games played for all of his 20 seasons career: 62, 65, 74, 76 (x2), 78, 79 (x3), 80 (x4), 81 (x2), 82 (x5). Even at his lowest, the guy played a very respectable amount of games, never missing more than 20 games a season. And that doesn't even doesn't count his college career, where he played 3 seasons (apparently freshmen weren't eligible at the time).
The point about the hook shot is very good, in that having a go to move that's gentler on your body both allows you to lessen the damage and also keeps you effective even when your athleticism has declined significantly. With how mobile a big needs to be nowadays I don't think 42 is a reasonable, but if Wemby adds a bag of tricks to his repertoire (hook shot in the paint, improves on his jump shot from the perimeter) and plays alongside a more physical partner, that along with his training routine will go a long way into keeping him healthy and available far longer than projected by most.
Kareem was lanky and his heavy jump rope workouts were legendary. Wemby looks like a workout fiend and the emphasis on core and not adding weight just for the sake of it but rather strength bodes well for his longevity IMO. He needs to get a bit stronger as we saw and bring the ball to his body quicker on defensive rebounds but he’s real wiry and stronger already than many realize. He also seems to have that knack for controlled use of his size and using a measured level of effort that Duncan so beautifully displayed.
On that last note, I suspect DRob may have advised Duncan against trying to fly around like he did and stay closer to the ground to avoid the type of injuries that he experienced.
It depends on what type of player Wemby develops to. A high percentage sky hook requires good low post positioning to catch the ball as close to the basket as possible.
Duncan had a better supporting cast.
That was Abdul-Jabbar's and Chamberlain's listed weights when drafted. They eventually would go on to to play at 267 and 292-301, respectively.
Not in the early aughts, yet they still had a top few winning percentage in the league and dethroned the three-time defending champions with no second star.
Robinson, for all his efficiency (which was boosted by a combination of superior physical tools and playing no pre-prime and few post prime seasons), didn't have the skillset to be the hub of an offense on a championship team.
Last edited by TD 21; 07-23-2023 at 03:50 PM.
Robinson dominated Hakeem head to head for their careers. The exception was the playoff series, where Hakeem had Sam Cassell, Kenny Smith, Robert Horry, Clyde Drexler and Mario Elie. Swap Robinson to the rockets and Hakeem to the Spurs and it's a sweep.
Regardless, there is not a person on earth who has ever suggested that the Spurs would have won that series if Robinson had more moves in the post.
The Spurs won in 03. Duncan was the post player. Nobody wished Robinson had more post moves after that game.
Still a re .
because the Rockets didn't have a roster until the mid-90s because of Sampson's injuries and a drug scandal.
as soon as good players appeared around Hakim, it became immediately clear to everyone who was the top 2 player of the 90s and who was the choker in the playoffs
only homer would seriously compare these two players
Who has better post moves?
Hakeem? Or Duncan? or McHale?
I personally have mchale. It was really unreal. The thing is that he doesn’t need much space to make it work. Hakeem’s dream shake requires quite a bit of room to operate and Duncan relies a bit (at least the threat) of his 15 to 18 footers to open up room. Mchale just parks his butt in the paint and ball fake the crap out of everyone using like a five foot radius.
Good points on KM. Might have to agree with you.
mchale was a beast=amazing footwork.
mchale's game was much easier. right handed jump hook. turnaround over his left shoulder. or up and under. those 3 moves required very little setup, very little room to operate, and account for most of his production. didnt need anything else because of his lanky build and long arms. the whole torture rack pump fake stuff are highlights but other than the up and under, not really something he did all that often
i wasnt alive when he played, so just speaking off finals footage that ive seen tbh
also was simply more efficient than hakeem/duncan, but had the luxury of playing alongside a top 5/10 all timer
duncan kinda just like to overpower players a lot of the time. wasnt always the most fancy work, just get right up into a guys chest and kind of throw it up with his right at just about any arm angle that was needed. but he did have the footwork, quickness, and handles for the occasional blow by for a dunk since he could go just about any direction at any time and defenders had to guess to take away the easy jump hook. for all the stuff about the bank shot, the midrange shot wasnt kind to him by the %'s. from 10-16 feet for his career he shot under 41%, and basically shot right at 41% from 16ft thru the 3 point line (mostly that flat straightaway shot from the top of the key)
the bank shot was pretty but was more effective to set up the drive into the jump hook or a sweeping dunk
cant speak nearly as much as to hakeem. but he just appears to be soo much smoother than duncan was. like he was gliding around
Kream doesn't even acknowledge his own kids
Not many NBA players do but ask them to help a fellow athlete, they'll do that.
duncan barely acknowledged his wife tbh
Although freshmen were not allowed to play Kareem's (Lew Alcindor's) freshman year, Kareem's freshman UCLA team did pay the NCAA Champion UCLA varsity that year in an exhibition -- and beat them!
A great sports story if there ever was one.
Are you talking about the murderer?
I’m glad someone called this out. DRob had some very nice highlights that MVP regular season dunking on Hakeem and that may be what he is referencing. The stats don’t bear out that David dominated Hakeem in any way, shape or form even in the regular season though. In 1994-5 Hakeem outscored DRob by over 7 points per game across 6 regular season games. Anyone comparing regular season success to playoff success is also an obvious tool were that even actually supported by the facts.
What is really lame is for someone to want to argue about this and draw out the discussion. It is better to quickly acknowledge the truth and move on.
Or as the saying goes it is better to be thought an idiot…
Now if he can modify that to a fade-away skyhook, man that would be something.
Didn’t Manut Bol have the Space Hook??
But wouldn’t the argument goes both ways? Why did hakeem get the benefit of the doubt with a bad roster while robinson gets labelled a choker? Hakeem had his greatest years surrounded by three point shooters. Robinson had Avery Johnson and Vinny del negro.
Spurs had prime Elliot and Rodman. Either of those teams gets blown off the floor by the 13-14 Spurs. The 1 v 1 matchup was the point. The larger discussion was about whether big men should develop post moves, such as the sky hook.
All I said was yes, post moves are a must IMO, look at 95 and then 03 Duncan wrecking prime Shaq.
Not trying to argue David was as good as Hakeem was, but Rodman was not a plus. He was a statpadder who left Horry wide open for the game winner in Game 1 of that series so he could try to add another rebound to his line on the boxscore and then in a must win Game 2 jacked up three three pointers in the first quarter to force Bob Hill to bench him. Then after the Spurs won two games in Houston to bring the series back to 2-2 he decided to be really late to practice to get in another pissing match with Bob Hill. Rodman, he was a net negative to the team in 95 which is why Chicago was the only team interested in trading for that cancer and why they only had to give up Will Perdue.
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