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> athletic center
> Sengun
> spurs def problems
> Sengun
there is no need to compare modern players with former Spurs
> athletic center
> Sengun
> spurs def problems
> Sengun
huh? Every spurs team post-Duncan that wants to contend will be compared with those teams... it's not only natural, it's logical since Pop is still the coach. We understand the plays, and players, he prefers. Oh, 2022 join date. Gotcha
we need a real PG who can also shoot 40% from three ...
what does the current team have to do with this?
there is not a single player on the team that resembles one of the big three
these are completely different players not only in terms of their level of play, but also in their skill set
you can start watching non-spurs basketball if you want to make some comparisons between players
Last edited by Vince Carter's ankle; 11-12-2023 at 06:29 AM.
He’s a lead footed 6’9” center who can’t defend his position, or one down. He has a nice post up game, and a good mid range jumper, but the suicide watch that some are on because we didn’t draft him is baffling. We need defense above all else, and he provides ZERO.
Lead footed? Sure about that? He's playing better personally than our team Defensive Rating by 18 points. And almost 10 points above the Rockets team Defensive Rating 116.5
Alperun Sengun Defensive Rating = 107
Victor Wembanyama Defensive Rating = 107.9 (as of 5 days ago)
Just for comparison sakes, Zach Collins currently sits at 119.7
Remember a couple months ago when I took something regarding the Lakers record at the end of last season and it was not as clear cut as I thought? Well, you just did the same thing.
He's everything we could have used on this team. Fantastic court vision, with superior passing. Crafty. Good shooter. And increasingly, getting good defensively under Ime's tutelage and scheme.
So yeah, put me on suicide watch if you so choose because we're watching a potential all-star's career develop when we had the chance to but decided upon a flasher. That should put you on suicide watch too
We need a couple experienced veterans (surprised at how Spurs FO underrate what they bring to a team)
Too many youngsters
The Spurs need a starting point guard, blatantly. This is the most glaring duh in the entire NBA.
Tre Jones is an adequate backup (and ought to be starting in this situation.) Sochan is not adequate in any respect; he does not have any of the skills an NBA point guard needs.
An NBA point guard has adept dribbling skill, passing skill, good game management, the ability to read a defense and identify options very quickly, and so on. And that’s just the fundamentals. An outstanding point guard adds defensive ability and shooting, as well. The Spurs need such a critter. He doesn’t have to be an all star, but he has to be able to do the fundamental things a point guard does, at least.
It isn’t easy to find an NBA level point guard. That’s why they’re paid millions. But it’s possible. Almost all the NBA teams manage to do it, every year.
Then, about that trashy defense. To have a better defense the Spurs need to replace Keldon Johnson. He lacks defensive IQ and his deficiency doesn’t seem to be curable, for one thing. More could be said. Sochan can’t simply replace Keldon because Sochan doesn’t shoot well enough and score well enough, not yet anyway. If Sochan wasn’t starting at pg he’d have to go to the bench.
That wouldn’t be the worst outcome, because the bench is weak. It’s hardly surprising for such a young team. In the T-wolves game, their starters and the Spurs starters tied (89 points each.) The difference in final score was from bench production.
The Spurs bench should improve through player development. Also, bench players are much more abundant and less expensive than starters, as we know. So improvement of the bench should be relatively easy, as compared to the starting lineup. Relatively easy.
So,
An NBA point guard of starter quality.
A significant improvement in Sochan’s ability to shoot and score, or, a new 3&D sf.
A better bench, through in-house development or minor moves, or both.
(I take the development of Wemby as the team’s highest priority. That should go without saying.)
Other stuff looks like lower priority. Vassell is fine. Collins is fine for now.
Sengun supposedly grew to 6'11'' in shoes over the off season.
Thread le. le contention in the future is the goal = leads into me comparing players on our current roster who could fit into roles that players from past le contenders played
Its a spurs forum, off
The sample size is small, but look at what a difference a few vets have made in Houston to go along with their very young core. I don't see any top free agents coming up this summer that make sense for the Spurs (except for maybe Anunoby), so barring a blockbuster trade, I'd guess the main change will be adding inexpensive quality role players around the current core. The ones I like are Delon Wright & Alec Burks, both late bloomers with reliable positive impact, both low usage guys who won't demand huge contracts.
there are no such players on this roster
Starting to feel more and more that a lot of the Spurs problems could be solved with a couple of moves:
1) Trade Keldon
2) Move Sochan to the bench
3) Acquire a starting-caliber PG or a young player worth developing into a starting caliber PG (Ivey perhaps?)
4) Move Devin to SF
I would try to do this:
1) Trade Keldon + CHA pick to DET for Jaden Ivey
2) Move Sochan to the bench unit
3) Starting 5 becomes Ivey, Bran, Devin, Wemby, Collins
4) Ivey is a good fit because he could develop into a starting caliber PG, or if you have an opportunity to draft one of the top PG prospects in the draft, Ivey can slide to the 2 and send Bran back to the bench
Biggest concern here is that if leaves a hole at the SG position off the bench, but perhaps Graham can fill some of those minutes.
New Rotation:
Ivey/Tre/Blake
Bran/Graham/Blake
Devin/Cedi/Doug/Champ
Wemby/Sochan/Cedi/Mamu
Collins/Bassey/Mamu
if you're so interested in my opinion on non spurs players, I see a vet like Spencer Dinwiddie perfectly attainable, right skillset and just what this team needs. Are you happy now? lol
I get your point but this is a bad example. Look at what Houston has to pay for those vets. They’ll be in cap for a long time. Wrapped up in big contracts and have made their team a borderline playoff team but nowhere near contenders.
As much as I’m interested in Ivey it’s a bit early to give up the production Keldon brings without adequately replacing it. Ivey can barely crack the rotation on a losing team. On paper the positional alignment looks better but I don’t see the production to justify your suggested Ivey trade.
I think you're giving up a ton of perimeter positional size and defense with that lineup. Vassell has historically been much better guarding 1s and 2s rather than wings, Branham is atrocious on defense, and Ivey can't crack the piston's starting lineup despite being significantly better on offense than Killian Hayes exclusively because he can't defend. You're looking at a 2023-4 Bucks-level perimeter defense with that lineup with a fairly limited ceiling. I like the idea of moving Keldon away from the starting lineup, but I still believe that Sochan can do good things next to Wemby if used appropriately.
I agree with this. Huge miss by the front office. I'd rather not have sengun if it means we still get Wemby, but realistically moving forward Sengun is much better than Collins in many areas while his weaknesses aren't that much worse. In a vacuum not taking him was a huge mistake at the time, especially for Josh Primo of all people.
That's why I specifically named "inexpensive quality role players" who won't demand the salaries that VanVleet and Brooks did. Wright and Burks are both nonstarters. Neither would possibly demand the $40mil yearly salary that VanVleet does. Spurs might be able to get both for less than Brooks's yearly salary of about $20mil.
This is interesting - assuming they draft a lead guard in the next draft, would you advocate throwing a max or near max at OG over the summer based on what you've seen thus far? He does seem like exactly what they'd need.
Hypothetically speaking, if they acquired Ivey, it'd be to kill two birds with one stone: Get the potential lead guard they so desperately need and clear up the question of who'd move to the bench between Sochan and Johnson, once they do.
The league has moved back to valuing positional size.
I also think it'd take a better pick, like the Craptors one, for example, to entice the Pistons. Even then, they'd probably prefer to wait until the off season and the Spurs might prefer to wait until post draft too, even though they should be pushing now.
Ok, depending for whom or what.
2) Move Sochan to the bench
…
Ok, depending on who else is available.
3) Acquire a starting-caliber PG or a young player worth developing into a starting caliber PG
…
Ok.
4) Move Devin to SF
…
Get down on your hands and knees and look under the couch for where your brain rolled to when it fell out of your head.
Vassell is the SG, doing quite nicely, thank you.
When you find something that works:
Leave. It. Alone.
Geez louise.
Vassell’s defense, at least statistically, has gotten progressively worse throughout his career (and this year is about equivalent to Branham), and he’s not the defensive stalwart that this website likes to imagine him.
Agreed on Bran, he’s in there largely because there literally is no one else and we need shooting. An alternative would be to bring in Champ or Cedi as the other wing. Cedi doesn’t offer any defensive upgrade either. Frankly, the guy we need there isn’t on the roster.
Largely the biggest problem to solve however is that Keldon just crowds up the rotation and he isn’t good enough to justify the mess he makes. I really like Keldon and hoped he’d be a huge part of our team going forward, but I just don’t see it.
I think the Spurs should see if they can't sneak in and grab OG during the deadline, especially if the price isn't much more than say Keldon and their pick back. That's both so that the Spurs would have way more options if they could go into the next season above the cap and use Bird rights and exceptions and because if OG walks, the Spurs would actually have a path toward a max slot if they could dump that salary. So its downside is not terrible, even if the top plan would obviously be to not lose the guy.
Yes, though, they need a top perimeter defender so that Wemby can actually shine. It would be nice for them to run good defenders at every other position, but their lack of competent perimeter D is sinking them. No matter what folks here want to say about Sochan, he has work to do to even be decent there.
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