KOC's Take on the Spurs (Does he read ST.com, tbh?)

[exstatic]

I’m also a sochan fan and have been praising him so far. Ex’s dumbass didn’t realize that lol.

My original quote of you was referring to Sochan as 25, meaning you weren’t comprehending that the discussion was about Sochan and not Keldon. I quoted a post that I requoted of yours comparing Sochan to Keldon. Keldon was only the comparison, not the subject of discussion, yet when I said ‘he’ is only 21, and Sochan, the subject of the discussion is, in fact 21, you had to trip on your and try to flex on ME by saying he was 25. That as only the first error in a long line of them, as you try to weasel out of your original error.

China must be terrified of you as some new secret weapon, digging all the way there in an attempt to undermine Three Gorges dam,

[timtonymanu]

My original quote of you was referring to Sochan as 25, meaning you weren’t comprehending that the discussion was about Sochan and not Keldon. I quoted a post that I requoted of yours comparing Sochan to Keldon. Keldon was only the comparison, not the subject of discussion, yet when I said ‘he’ is only 21, and Sochan, the subject of the discussion is, in fact 21, you had to trip on your and try to flex on ME by saying he was 25. That as only the first error in a long line of them, as you try to weasel out of your original error.

China must be terrified of you as some new secret weapon, digging all the way there in an attempt to undermine Three Gorges dam,

You’re interpreting me saying he was 25 as flexing when it was just a disconnect, you’re being so butthurt over nothing. I get it you constantly get shat on in here so you have a me against the world complex. But it wasn’t that deep. Anyway go take your meds. I know you have dementia, you senile fart.

[scott]

I agree the take didn't age poorly, but that's only because it was bad when it was made. I've already talked about it being wrong in premise because it was making assumptions that were not sound. Their whole argument comes from the assumption that Wemby is the guy he was against the Jazz but artificially looks like the guy he was against Houston and OKC because the team around him makes him look bad. That's obviously wrong, and that opinion can only come from not actually watching the games. The team reaching the play-in is not based on what two of their bench players do. Like we can talk about Johnson and Collins all we want. There's obviously a ton of criticism for them on this site. But the Spurs struggled early because of how disorganized they'd become on offense, and that has nothing to do with their backup wing or backup center.

The only premise that had merit at all is the Pop needing to be more creative on offense. That was true, and last game was progress in that area. But attacking Sochan, Johnson and Collins to excuse Wemby not being ready to score against good defenders playing an updated game plan. Wemby is not the Jazz guy, or rather he's both the Jazz guy and the Rockets/Thunder guy. KOC and his friend watch so little of the Spurs that they didn't understand that and listed off a number of silly ideas to explain a question that already had an answer. The Spurs' supporting cast can get better, but it's plenty good for Victor to take the steps he needed as it is. There's more evidence now that a Markkanen deal would've been a big mistake.

Nah, you’re wrong.

The premise that the Spurs should suck until Wemby is ready to single handily carry them on his back is just absurd on its face. The fact that Wemby is “the Jazz guy” and “the Rockets/Thunder guy” shouldn’t be a reason to not put a better team around Wemby or excuse subpar players like Johnson and Collins. That’s accepting that the Spurs can only be as good as Wemby lets them. How about, instead, we put a team that can overcome Wemby being “the Rockets/Thunder guy” instead of NEEDING him to be “the Jazz guy” to win.

The MIN game was a great example. Wemby played an effective, but not dominant offensive game, but a rare outburst by Keldon was enough to carry us. Imagine being able to get those kind of contributions more regularly. Imagine winning not because Wemby is super human, but rather because we have a well constructed, capable basketball team with good coaching.

[Chinook]

The premise that the Spurs should suck until Wemby is ready to single handily carry them on his back is just absurd on its face.

Scott, you know damned well I didn't say that. In fact, I can't imagine you don't know that I believe the opposite -- that the Spurs will be better once Wemby starts to play his role and NOT try to carry them on his back. I think the last two-and-a-half games have indicated that.

The fact that Wemby is “the Jazz guy” and “the Rockets/Thunder guy” shouldn’t be a reason to not put a better team around Wemby or excuse subpar players like Johnson and Collins

We went over that in the off-season. You know I wanted a better team. However, that's not "the problem" with the Spurs. It's at least as much that they lack actualized star power as it is that they lack a supporting cast. But when Johnson and Collins are your sixth- and eight-best players rather than your third or fourth, it dramatically changes the team's talent level. No serious playoff team is being held back by their bench guys being inconsistent.

That’s accepting that the Spurs can only be as good as Wemby lets them.

You're assuming the Spurs are doing everything they can to win -- that they want to do that. Many of your fellow Wemby fans would argue the team is purposefully willing to sacrifice wins if it means Wemby can experiment and develop. I personally don't think that's true and look to the recent games as evidence for that. But even though you seem to personally believe Wemby needs stars next to him to develop doesn't mean it's a universal belief. This feels like a far better situation for growth than one with a second star.

How about, instead, we put a team that can overcome Wemby being “the Rockets/Thunder guy” instead of NEEDING him to be “the Jazz guy” to win.

Wemby hasn't needed to be the "Jazz" guy to win, and I actually don't think the Spurs can meaningfully overcome Wemby being shut down by a wing without basically benching Wemby and being carried by an actual offensive system OR by deemphasizing Wemby like they've done recently and reduce the number of iso touches he gets. "Rockets/Thunder" Wemby isn't just a guy a wing locked up --it's a guy a wing locked up who kept breaking the sequence of the offense and wasting touches, then ultimately letting his frustration affect his defense.

The MIN game was a great example. Wemby played an effective, but not dominant offensive game, but a rare outburst by Keldon was enough to carry us.

Yes, because right now the Spurs don't have the guy who averaged almost 20ppg last year and had to rely on their sixth man to carry them. It's like how Danny Green and Patty Mills would carry the Spurs sometimes when the Big Three were out. It just feeds into the weakness of this argument. A team shouldn't be carried by a bench player. That they have one averaging 13 points instead of 25 a night doesn't strike alarm bells. Time will tell how sustainable the team's play can be with a more integrated Wemby like we saw last game. Hopefully it's a trend, but Paul has to keep this going at least until Jones comes back. But right now, the Spurs are getting next to nothing from Champagnie. Devin can add play-making to help offset Paul returning to Earth and add shooting to make up for Champ's slump.

Imagine being able to get those kind of contributions more regularly. Imagine winning not because Wemby is super human, but rather because we have a well constructed, capable basketball team with good coaching.

That doesn't mean trade Keldon, and it obviously has nothing to do with Collins. I have nothing against the team looking into acquiring a scoring guard for the bench. I think if the Spurs end up being in the mix in a few months, it should be high on their wish list. But that's not to replace Johnson. It's to solidify the Jones, Castle, Johnson, Collins bench. Trading Johnson and Collins to try to put Champ and Bassey/Mamu in their place isn't a serious step toward improvement.