A&M SUCKS ASS!

[Kori Ellis]

PS: Kori, is Mr Peabody your alter-ego?

No, I don't have an alter ego.

[Kori Ellis]

My example of other schools using 12th Man a lot comes from my alma mater, UCLA. They have sold "UCLA 12th Man" shirts, hats, t-shirts for a long time.

Here's an article from 1998 that mentions it. That's all the proof I can find off the top of my head.

With setting, tradition and focus on their side, UCLA fans avidly embrace their supporting role; thousands wave blue-and-white towels emblazoned with "UCLA 12th Man" while yelling "One, two, three, move the chains!" after every first down. The towels sell for $1.

Fans had plenty to cheer about Saturday as the Bruins, led by sensational quarterback Cade McNown, routed Texas 49-31.

http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showp...q;pid=21;d=all

[hussker]

My example of other schools using 12th Man a lot comes from my alma mater, UCLA. They have sold "UCLA 12th Man" shirts, hats, t-shirts for a long time.

Here's an article from 1998 that mentions it. That's all the proof I can find off the top of my head.



http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showp...q;pid=21;d=all

BUT: You say "from the beginning of time". Find a reference to the "12th Man" in College Football prior to 1922. You won't.

[Kori Ellis]

BUT: You say "from the beginning of time". Find a reference to the "12th Man" in College Football prior to 1922. You won't.

Oh, okay. That's the proof you are looking for. IMO it's an expression that has been around as long as fans have been watching the sport. Most teams use it and have always used it. I'm not saying that the Aggies didn't coin the term. I'm just saying it's used so commonly among most teams that it's an odd thing to be copyrighted.

I'm not contesting they have a right to sue about it.

I'm just saying they have a lot of sueing to do -- most college teams in the country use it. When I was a kid, my cousins had 12th Man shirts from ASU. It's really common.

[hussker]

Oh, okay. That's the proof you are looking for. IMO it's an expression that has been around as long as fans have been watching the sport. Most teams use it and have always used it. I'm not saying that the Aggies didn't coin the term. I'm just saying it's used so commonly among most teams that it's an odd thing to be copyrighted.

I'm not contesting they have a right to sue about it.

I'm just saying they have a lot of sueing to do -- most college teams in the country use it. When I was a kid, my cousins had 12th Man shirts from ASU. It's really common.

Kori,

1) I agree, it is stupid, but aTm has a point.

2) The origin is 1922 at aTm, there is no other origin of the term in sports prior to that date.

3) En ies have to protect what is rightfully theirs, whether people agree or not. Lawyers are licking their chops right now. aTm has the RESPONSIBILITY to sue over it. The issue is not marketing, it is about losing trademark rights which is rightfully theirs, legally. Failure to do so opens it up for anyone to use.

4) The only battles the sharks will ever fight will be the BIG ones, like this one. Legal sharks won't go after NCAA en ies who make no $$, but let Super Bowl Teams get involved...there they go with their beady eyes and big teeth.

4) As a Medical Professional, I HATE LAWYERS ( a term I should Copyright/Trademark since no one else has but we all say it ).

5) Hope to meet you and your better half at the GTG on Feb 10th! I am excited about finally getting to one!

[TheTruth]

Because every football team ever assembled has used that term from the beginning of time. It's generic.

They have the right to sue because they own the copyright. It's just funny that they are just getting into it now. Schools across the country have been selling "12th Man" stuff for years and years. And as far as the Seahawks go, I have yet to see that the Seahawks organization is selling anything with "12th Man" on it. They have the "12" towels and flags. And they have the 12/Fan T-shirts. But I haven't seen anything with "12th Man" sold by the Seahawks organization.

From what I gathered in the article that AHF posted, this isn't the first time they've gone after organizations infringing on their copyright. The article mentions the bears, the bills, etc. So it's really not just coming around right now. I think they are only taking it to court right now because apparently the seahawks refuse to acknowledge and/or cooperate.

-Mandy-

[Ginofan]

And for the record, they only trademarked it in the 90's.

Yes I'm sorry, I used the incorrect term. But i think you get the jist of what I was trying to say.

[Kori Ellis]

5) Hope to meet you and your better half at the GTG on Feb 10th! I am excited about finally getting to one!

I'm looking forward to meeting you too!

[Kori Ellis]

From what I gathered in the article that AHF posted, this isn't the first time they've gone after organizations infringing on their copyright. The article mentions the bears, the bills, etc. So it's really not just coming around right now. I think they are only taking it to court right now because apparently the seahawks refuse to acknowledge and/or cooperate.

-Mandy-

Yeah apparently they asked the Bears to stop it this season too. I don't know about the Bills. Most colleges use the term too.

And again, I don't think that they've shown that any merchandise is being sold by the Seahawks organization that says "12th Man". So far, I've only seen "12" stuff and the 12/Fan shirts. Has anyone seen any?

If people are selling bootleg shirts that say Seahawks 12th Man, then that's not on the Seahawks organization.

[hussker]

From what I gathered in the article that AHF posted, this isn't the first time they've gone after organizations infringing on their copyright. The article mentions the bears, the bills, etc. So it's really not just coming around right now. I think they are only taking it to court right now because apparently the seahawks refuse to acknowledge and/or cooperate.

-Mandy-

True. The bottom line is not $$ (except for the SHARKS) it is the rights and the tradition that MANY MANY MANY (oh trust me) give their $$ to annually. The 12th Man Foundation is a HUGE moneymaker for the University and it does good things for the Students and Alumni.

It is those Students and Alumni that pay for that every year (and their husbands too).

The Bears and Bills backed off. That did not receive GREAT publicity becuase those teams did not go to the SB while they were trying to use it. Obviously, it is a different story with the SKWAWKS (I love Palindromes). This should open the eyes of every team out there using the term and selling it, whether they have been for years or just recently.

Jim "dumbass" Rome would have you believe something different and flame on because he is the Sports talk equivalent of O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc...He drums up crap to sell PB Blaster. He is entertaining and I do listen, but he is a talking head sales owned by those who pay his salary.

Bottom line...this should open eyes all around to not violate Trademarks/Copyrights.

I am sure that the t.u. contingent would be very happy with hook 'em texans...I am sure there is NO WAY the sips would go after that NFL franchise and would fully embrace that as goodwill. (Fans do not count, I am talking LAWYERS here).

[hussker]

Yeah apparently they asked the Bears to stop it this season too. I don't know about the Bills. Most colleges use the term too.

And again, I don't think that they've shown that any merchandise is being sold by the Seahawks organization that says "12th Man". So far, I've only seen "12" stuff and the 12/Fan shirts. Has anyone seen any?

If people are selling bootleg shirts that say Seahawks 12th Man, then that's not on the Seahawks organization.

It is not about selling, it is about USING. If you own a trademark, and someone is using SAID trademark, you stand to lose it if you do not take action. Has NOTHING to do with profitting at all. If the TAMU administration does not responsibly address the unauthorized use of a trademark, then the courts can take it away from them if they allow it to be used...regardless of whether or not there is profit involved.

Read the Public Law on it. It is a VERY long read.

[mookie2001]

aggy sucks so hard at football
they really need this win

[hussker]

aggy sucks so hard at football
they really need this win

GO $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$EAHAWKS

(dude, it could help draw down the $$ of my Season Tix at all events!)

[Extra Stout]

explain

Aggies, at least the men anyway, think it is cool to do something to piss somebody off in a class higher than theirs, and then have an upperclassmen whack them in the ass repeatedly with an axe handle. The ass then gets red welts. So there's an Aggie term "red ass" which basically means "cool."

If it sounds to you like this ritual is halfway between being spanked and being sodomized, and that it's sort of the college equivalent of "Deliverance," well...

I can't argue with that.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

From a lawyer buddy of mine...

What about the fact that A&M didn't get trademark rights until 1990?

This is a very technical distinction, but an important one. A&M got rights in the use of the mark as soon as it started using, not when it registered the mark. This is what a lot of people don't get. The only thing registration does is provide constuctive notice to other potential users--i.e., Seattle is deemed to have first knowledge of A&M's use of the mark no later than the time of registration. You can only acquire rights in a mark if you do not have [actual or constructive] knowledge of another's use of the mark (assuming the marks are in fact confusingly similar).

Further, the fact that several other NFL teams were served CAD (cease and desist) letters strengthens A&M's claims and weakens any Seattle may have.