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I'm glad you've decided to post amongst us, Councilwoman Guajardo.
It's hus cons utional right to about his city, without people like that we would be drinking recycled water, planning to attend the grand opening of the PGA village, etc...Did those people move to another city, no they used their rights, just like he used his to write to his councilwoman.
I'm glad you've decided to post amongst us, Councilwoman Guajardo.
If you move into an Apartment with an established club next door that's your choice.
The guy used some harsh words. I grew up poor in this city and I take offense to some jackass trying to move a club because everyone there is low class.
Obviously it was a racial / class insult. This lady did the right thing. Don't let some idiot insult your people.
One needs to treat the rich and poor of San Antonio with some respect. I have no pity for a guy that wanted to on some "lower class" people.
Perhaps reading is something you should try sometime.
IIRC, Graham wasn't open at that location eight years ago.
And if you think about it some more, a state agency thought something wrong was going on there if they were in the process of having their liquor license revoked.
Guess what, I grew up poor in San Antonio, too. I also grew up Hispanic in San Antonio, too.
Lemme ask you this, do you have a problem with residents asking for their subdivisions to become "gang-free" zones? Do you have a problem when neighborhoods pe ion to have strip clubs removed? They're also asking that the city do something to remove a group of citizens from their neighborhoods as well.
Strange, I have the feeling that from erson's letter, he was trying to do that, too.
Guess what, it's the same thing.
Last edited by Johnny_Blaze_47; 02-04-2006 at 03:23 AM.
Vashner is a dumb .
I think it's funny that Vashner is hurt by words when he's always so ready to sling them out.
You know what, Vash? Just for you, I'm going to start one of my favorite pasttimes again. I wonder how big the file would be if I asked the TABC for all of the complaints about GCS in the past 18 months.
Maybe he's related to the councilwoman.
This whole thing got out of hand because of the fact that someone before him had emailed from that same company basically calling the powers that be idiots, and she overreacted to this new email. What does it matter if it is another email from Zachry? It's a different person and situation.
The only mistake this guy made, other than emailing from work, was by saying that only people from bad parts of the city frequent that club, thinking his neighbors are not the type that would frequent that club. That is hardly racist, maybe borderline immoral, but mostly it is stupidity.
Even though it states it, the article also makes it sound like he is describing the people with that line. he is descibing the entertainment, to me, thats a big difference. Yes it is possible for someone to be a good person, and want to release stress by going clubbing and getting wild. Is she trying to deny that the club experience is not wild, , that sounded like a good party to me. However, take your mom to a club like that someday and see what she thinks. And isn't this the type of behavior the city was trying to derail with strip clubs? I saw city officials back then making remarks about the type of people that frequent strip clubs, so...... it's ok for the city to say this kind of stuff about certain citizens, but a citizen raises concerns in an email and he is hammered for complaining about the people that attend a club?
Do you all think that Cityworkers do not get hate-mail, or people sending emails complaining about their hispanic, black or redneck neighbors? And I assure you these two are not the first to send those e-mail from work. There has to be some kind of personal or business relationship that company has with the city, She even clears the owners of any blame for the e-mail in the qoute below.
I just don't get this line, she is witholding blame and blaming the company in the same sentence. Yes he should not have sent the email from work, but does that make his rights invalid. Why does it concern her that it came from the company? It is not important to her where the email came from, she should have just done her job. Would you like for Kori to call your bosses telling them you are logging on here from work? And in no way does he say that this is the opinion of the company. Her contention is that the email came from the company so it is tied to them, however the owners are cleared even they they OWN the company? That is about as tied to the company as you can get. I'm pretty sure that if this guy had not offed himself, and another Zachry employee emailed something like this from home, he probably would not be with the company too much longer.
Now don't make me use the Wookie defense.
Ok you can close this thread now.
~Drops the Mic~
Good Luck on getting GCS moved nextdoor to Tim's house, and welcome to reality.
What are you, the only one that grew up poor in this city? I made the choice to move up and off of MLK and Pecan Valley for a reason. I moved to a much better neighborhood, much like this man did. I don't exactly live in the best neighborhood in town, but it's a lot better. If they open up a hole like Graham's a block from me that has a history of serving drunks and minors, I'm gonna be pissed too. I'm going to write my local coucilman, the only difference is that I'm hispanic, so chances are they won't be able to play the race card with me so that they can play hero and get on the news.
I used to think you were one of the few posters here that made sense. Have you even been to Graham's lately? You know, it's not just a problem with Grahams if you look at the number of drunk drivers arrested in this city.
I doubt he's been to GCS...it's too close to Dave & Buster's and we all remember how much he compained that he was duped there.
Maybe since Vashner grew up poor, he can write his councilperson and complain about that without fear of getting fired from work.
The man took his own life nobody else put a gun to his head.
I'm hispanic, grew up poor, worked in the migrant fields and I too have worked my way up and am still working by going to school but I too feel offended when somebody says "lower class" and crap like that.
I disagree with Vashner in the political forum but he has his own opinion and has every right to express it. There are many "low class" people living in "upper class" neighborhoods. I don't live in what is called "upper class" neighborhood but my neighbors are all what I call good people and I'll take an honest good person over someone who "acts" like it.
Maybe I myself and getting tired of being PC all the time who knows.
Am I turning into an a-hole? Should I have posted under a troll name? Not that I have any.Nah, I know all of us have opinions that we may be shy to express for fear of what others may think but I feel comfortable enough around here that I'm not going to agree with everyone and I know damn sure not everyone is going to agree with me.
I may be an a-hole in here from time to time but I'm okay in person....at least I think I am.
Am I turning into an a-hole? Should I have posted under a troll name? Not that I have any.
I may be an a-hole in here from time to time but I'm okay in person....at least I think I am.
Where did this come from? I missed where someone called you an asshole, unless it was in the Political Forum. I don't go in there much anymore.
Joe, I hate to say it, but that's on you if you're offended by that. Deep down, I bet you know that you're just trying to be the best dad and husband you can. That's not lower-class.
You said it yourself. You're a good, hard-working person who's raising a family. From your posts, you're a good dad and husband who's just trying to live life the best way you can and be a good citizen. You served this country in the armed forces and we all thank you for that.
You're right, Vashner has a right to his opinions, just as Buddy Holly has the right to call him a dumb . In their minds, they're both right. Guess what, Vashner has a right to believe what he believes, but I also have the same right to tell him that I think he's a hypocrite and I could probably find somewhere in this forum where he's laid down that double standard.
AFAIK, you and your wife aren't the ones getting sloppy drunk off your asses, attempting to drive and killing others in the process outside a nightclub.
You said it yourself, you'd take an honest, good person than someone who acts like it. It sounds to me like George erson was a man who simply wanted some safety and security where he lived. Something tells me that there might be some responsible safe places in your neighborhood that you wouldn't mind going to wirh your wife or your kids going there when they are of age.
Something also tells me that there are some places you might not go or let your kids go to because the conditions aren't safe and the people that frequent it aren't thinking of being responsible enough to prepare for their actions.
What in the world gives people the right to act the fool and up somebody else's life? And you know what, it sucks in the sense that I'm sure there are normal, everyday people who want to go party, have some fun, blow off some steam, get flirty while dancing, pick up another person, have a few drinks, etc. who are going to get screwed from doing it at GCS because some bartender who got his job after watching the commercials during re-runs of "Judge Joe Brown" decided to serve some minors or people that were obviously too drunk in the first place.
If more people (like I'm sure a number of GCS and other places are) were responsible for their action and not act the fools, George erson might not be upset with having a club in his neighborhood.
George erson might not have had to send an e-mail, lose his job and for reasons that nobody will ever know, might not have taken his life.
To continue expanding on what JC said, he said that there were a number of "lower-class" people living in "upper-class" neighborhoods.
More than likely, those "lower-class" people probably got their by working hard to get there (sure, there are some who didn't, but I'd venture to guess the majority of them did).
I don't believe those are the people George erson was complaining about. I also bet that if I really look at the records of people ing up at GCS and causing the incidents that sent erson to his computer, I'd find some of them to be white.
This is what this incident has boiled down to, right. People think erson is being a racist because of what he said. Guess what, though, white people act the fool, too.
Did erson know every single person in every single person whose incident he referenced in his e-mail? I'm guessing not. Sure, the last major accident was caused by a Hispanic guy (based on his name and his usage of both Spanish and English on the scene according to the EN), but I'm guesing that erson didn't really care who was causing it as long as they were causing it out of his neighborhood.
I don't give a damn who's causing the property damage on the edge of the NW Crossing subdivision, I just know that it makes me angry as that the increase in property crime (and eventual progression to harsher crime) is making my mom nervous to live in what she considers her dream home. A home that she never thought she'd have until we found a way to make it a reality. And now she's thinking of moving?
We as a citizenry are being forced to keep quiet for fear that we'll be labled something we're not. Does my mom not have to worry about making her complaints heard because she's Hispanic? Maybe so, but why should her two white neighbors (one across the street and one next door) fear for doing the same complaining she would make?
Where in that letter does George erson make a racist comment?
Thanks. I admit I get defensive when it comes to others classifying people but I do the same thing. When I first met my wife she lived on the East Side in what I admit is a part of town that I did not want to raise our family and I told her that I would not live there not so much because of the people but of the criminal element. I guess I just flip-flopped which I have a tendency to do.
Her mom didn't want us to move because she wanted us to be close but I said no way I was going go live there so I moved to a better part of town and I wanted out of SA city limits so we moved to Converse and I'm very glad we did.
Yeah, there are parts of town I don't like to go but not necessarily due to the criminal element. We've yet to even see La Cantera Shops and have no desire to simply because it is just not us.
I would hope that we all want our family to be safe and secure and he did have legit reasons for his complaints.
It is just my nature I guess since I am so proud of my heritage and I know many good people who live in "lower class" areas perhaps I take it the wrong way when I feel someone is looking down on them.
All of your points are very well taken. Thanks man.
What I meant by "lower class" is people like Ken Lay who are s even though they live in "upper class" neighborhoods.
to me lower class does not mean poor & upper class does not mean money.
nowadays there are plenty of lowclass rich people and plenty of classy poor people.
I said it before earlier in this thread but I'll say it again:
anyone whose going out getting drunk, driving a car, getting rowdy with folks they hardly know , all out in public , hollaring nad throwing beer bottles, starting fights.... in the wee hours of the morning = low class. regardless of annual income or residancy.
No, I was calling myself an a-hole because I know I can be one.
And the Political forum rocks!
Reading the email, I really didn't see any problems until the last couple of paragraphs - those statements definitely would have caused some sort of an uproar. Also, after another Zachry employee used their email account to describing the SBC Center was built in a ghetto (parapharsing), you know Zachry probably had some sort of rule or policy regarding these types of emails. You think the guy would have known better to send something like that, which unfortunately he realized that too late cause just eight-nine minutes later he wanted the message to be confidential or he was gonna sue.
Thinking about it, perhaps it wasn't the fact he wrote "low-class" etc., but the fact he was going to sue if the letter became public. Apparently he didn't know that any correspondence sent to City Hall is public record.
Should she have gone to his superior? I don't think so - he wasn't a spokesperson for the company. However, the guy should have known better. There was a rule the company had in place, there was a previous incident and you have a company who wants to distance themselves from sort of thing.
It's a shame this ended in this way, it didn't have to.
I don't think many people are debating that he indeed broke company policy and should suffer some consequences for it.
I think what people are saying is why did the esteemed councilwoman have to begin the engagement.
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