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Marriage doesn't occur in nature. So, I guess having married parents is also an unnatural situation.
Natural-"occuring in nature"
Gay parents don't occur in nature, anywhere. Cause it's impossible.
Marriage doesn't occur in nature. So, I guess having married parents is also an unnatural situation.
sexuality and heterosexuality are states, not activities. Polygamy, incest, bestiality are all activities.
Polygamy, bestiality and incest are also illegal for both heterosexuals and sexuals.
Also, this a ridiculous argument, one that is traditionally used to deny civil rights and liberties to groups of minorities. It's nice to see you resort to it.
If you're right, it means:
Gay Parents = Gay Children
Straight Parents = Straight Children
That is obviously not the case.
I would venture to say MOST PEOPLE live unhealthy lifestyles. Have you seen how obese many people and their children are becoming these days?
Right, which is why we as a society don't allow single parents households to have children.
Take your time when you read the posts, it clearly states that the confusion comes with having two same sex parents.Right, which is why we as a society don't allow single parents households to have children.
Hetero- and sexual behavior is most certainly an activity. Those predisposed to engage in polygamy, incest and beastiality most certainly possess a state as well.
Right, behavior (an expression of those states) is prohibited by tradition.Polygamy, bestiality and incest are also illegal for both heterosexuals and sexuals.
Not any more ridiculous than any of your arguments. Sorry to expose the inherent flaw in your argument.Also, this a ridiculous argument, one that is traditionally used to deny civil rights and liberties to groups of minorities. It's nice to see you resort to it.
Maybe, but I am not using any of my "ridiculous" arguments as a reason to deny civil liberties to a minority group.
What he is implying is that there is confusion when you have "non-traditional" household. I was arguing that kids are raised in non-traditional households all over the country.
Then no "minority group" can be denied.
Teens With Same-Sex Parents Well-Adjusted
Study: Those with two moms live as normally as their peers
By Karen Pallarito
HealthDay Reporter
MONDAY, Nov. 15 (HealthDayNews) -- Adolescents who have two moms as parents are no different from teens growing up with a mother and a father, a new study finds.
On measures of psychosocial well-being, school functioning, and romantic relationships and behaviors, the teens with same-sex parents were as well adjusted as their peers with opposite-sex parents. The authors found very few differences between the two groups. A more important predictor of teens' psychological and social adjustment, they found, is the quality of the relationships they have with their parents.
"This is the first study that has looked at adolescents with same-sex parents in a national sample, and it shows clearly across a wide range of variables that they're doing pretty well," said study author Charlotte J. Patterson, a professor of psychology at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville.
The research, published in the November issue of Child Development , draws data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, a school-based study of the health-related behaviors of kids in grades 7-12.
Dr. Ellen C. Perrin, a professor of pediatrics at Tufts School of Medicine and an expert on the development of children with gay or lesbian parents, said that few studies have focused on adolescents of same-sex parents. What data there is has been subject to attack. Critics complain that the studies reflect researcher bias and non-random participant selection.
"In this case, neither of those critiques are valid," Perrin said. The new study uses data from a broad population-based survey conducted for entirely different reasons. "That makes it very clean, so to speak; no one could argue that there was any bias involved."
Estimates of the number of teens living with same-sex parents are hard to come by. As of 1990, 6 million to 14 million children were living with a gay or lesbian parent, says the National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, a service of the U.S. Administration for Children and Families.
Perrin believes that a majority of these children were born into heterosexual families. "Only recently have there been increasing numbers of kids born or adopted into already stable same-sex couples," she explained.
The study sample included 44 children, 12 to 18 years old, parented by same-sex couples and an equivalent number of peers with opposite-sex parents. The two groups had an equal number of girls and boys and other similarities, including ethnic background, family income, and parents' level of education.
Overall, researchers found no significant differences between the two groups. Teens with two moms, for example, were neither more nor less likely than their peers with two opposite-sex parents to report having been involved in a romantic relationship during the past year or ever having sex. Both groups were generally well-adjusted, with relatively high levels of self-esteem, relatively low levels of anxiety, and good achievement in school.
The study reveals a minor difference: "The kids of same-sex parents said that they feel more connected at school," Patterson said. In other words, they felt their teachers were more open to them, and that people at school were fair and cared for them. "I think that may be a chance finding, frankly," she said.
While family type wasn't a factor in how teens fared, family relationships were. When parents reported more positive relationships with their teenagers, for instance, the teens reported lower levels of depressive symptoms.
"The qualities of teenagers' relationships with their parents are much better predictors of their overall well-being," Patterson noted.
More information
The National Adoption Information Clearinghouse has more on issues and concerns surrounding gay parenting .
SOURCES: Charlotte J. Patterson, Ph.D., professor of psychology, University of Virginia, Charlottesville; Ellen C. Perrin, M.D., professor of pediatrics, Tufts School of Medicine and chief, Division of Developmental-Behavioral Pediatrics, Floating Hospital for Children, Tufts-New England Medical Center, Boston; November 2004 Child Development
Look, if you have a valid reason to deny certain rights and liberties to a minority group, go ahead and make your arguments. But if your reason is merely, "Well, if we give (random minority group -- Blacks, women, sexuals) these rights, where does it end? Should (insert a plant, animal, or some vilified group here) have these rights, as well?"
It's a argument frequently relied on by ignorant bigots. And the fact that you would compare sexuals to pedophiles or those committing bestiality shows that you fall into this category.
This is from the American Pyschological Association
http://www.apa.org/
Empirical Studies on Lesbian and Gay Parenting
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Ainslie, J., & Feltey, K.M. (1991). Definitions and dynamics of motherhood and family in lesbian communities. Marriage and Family Review, 17, (1/2), 63-85.
Reports results of a study of the meaning of motherhood and family to lesbian mothers, how these meanings are created and maintained both in the lesbian community and outside world, and the centrality of lesbian feminist communities to the lives of lesbian women and their children. Uses an explicitly feminist framework and interactive social psychological perspective. Includes intensive interviews with 17 lesbian mothers who were involved in lesbian feminist communities. Interviewees were mostly White women who ranged in age from 25 to 48, and the children ranged in age from 2 to 28. All respondents were biological mothers of the children they were raising and viewed motherhood as a positive forum for social change. They taught children feminist principles and organized their families accordingly--each person treated as a unique individual. Lesbian feminist communities provided support and a social context in which the families felt at home. The lack of language to describe the relationships in extended lesbian families was a common theme.
Bailey, J.M., Bobrow, D., Wolfe, M., & Mikach, S. (1995). Sexual orientation of adult sons of gay fathers. Developmental Psychology, 31, 124-129.
Reports the result of a study of 55 gay or bisexual men who had a total of 82 sons at least 17 years of age. The fathers were recruited through advertisements in gay publications. Eighty-nine percent of the fathers identified themselves as gay. The rest identified themselves as bisexual. More than 90% of the sons whose sexual orientation could be rated were heterosexual. The sexual orientation of the sons was not positively correlated with the amount of time the sons lived with their fathers. The authors conclude that the available evidence fails to provide empirical grounds for denying child custody to lesbian and gay parents because of concern about the effect on the child's sexual orientation.
Baptiste, D.A., (1987). Psycho-therapy with gay/lesbian couples and their children in stepfamilies: A challenge for marriage and family therapists. Journal of sexuality, 14 (1/2), 223-238.
Assesses lesbian and gay subjects who previously had been heterosexually married on five dimensions: personal traits, marital history, marital problems and their impact, and comfort with their gay iden y. Discusses issues about the physical custody; the proportion of custody determinations that were conflictual and personally destructive; satisfaction regarding custody arrangements; the percentage of lesbian/gay parents who were open with their children about their sexual orientation; how the disclosure was made; the impact on the children of the parent's coming out; and the frequency of reported difficulties experienced by the children because of their parent's sexual orientation.
Bigner, J.J., & Jacobsen, R.B. (1989). The value of children to gay and heterosexual fathers. Journal of sexuality, 18 (1/2), 163-172.
Reports on similarities and differences between 33 heterosexual fathers (aged 26-55 years) and 33 matched gay fathers who responded to the value of children questionnaire. Overall scores for both groups did not differ. Significant differences were found in two sub-scales (Tradition-Continuity-Security and Social Status). Gay fathers reported that their marriage and family orientation reflected a traditional at ude toward family life and served to protect against societal rejection. Sample reported on was a self-selected group of gay fathers attending a self-help group. Comparison group was constructed from a larger sample of men who are fathers, without knowledge of the men's sexual orientation.
Bigner, J.J., & Jacobsen, R.B. (1989). Parenting behaviors of sexual and heterosexual fathers. Journal of sexuality, 18(1/2), 173-186.
An empirical study of the differences and similarities between 33 gay fathers and 33 nongay fathers as reflected in their responses to the Iowa Parent Behavior Inventory. Fathers of both types were quite similar on degree of involvement and level of intimacy with children. Gay fathers were generally more strict, but were also more responsive, and took more care in socializing their children than their nongay counterparts. The convenience nature of the sample of gay fathers (all drawn from a support group for gay fathers) makes generalizations to other gay fathers problematic. No data are available on the sexual orientation of the control group drawn at random from a pre-existing group of study participants. Makes no claim to generalizability, recognizing the limits of their sampling procedures, yet speculates on the nature of the differences between the two groups, suggesting the more socially desirable behavior of the gay fathers may result from perceived pressure to be a "good" father, which they feel more acutely than their nongay counterparts.
Bigner, J.J., & Jacobsen, R.B. (1992). Adult responses to child behavior and at udes toward fathering: Gay and nongay fathers. Journal of sexuality, 23(3), 99-112.
Provides a concise review of research on gay fathers and reports the results of a study of 24 gay and 29 nongay fathers. Finds a high degree of similarity between the two groups of fathers with regard to parenting styles and at udes toward fathering. Discusses methodological short-comings, including the lack of standardization of the instruments used and the familiar limitations of convenience sampling that plagues much of gay and lesbian research.
Bozett, F. W. (1981). Gay fathers: Evolution of the gay-father iden y. American Journal of Orthopsychiatry, 51(3), 552-559.
Reports the results of an exploratory interview study of 18 gay fathers (28-51 years old). Reveals that as the men participate in both the gay world and the world of fathers they begin to develop a congruent iden y. Concludes that the gay father's self-disclosure of his iden y as father in the gay world and as gay in the father world is crucial to the gay father's achievement of self-acceptance.
Dunne, E. J. (1987). Helping gay fathers come out to their children. Journal of sexuality, 14(1/2), 213-222.
Discusses the obstacles to disclosure that gay fathers confront in coming out to their children. Describes a time-limited, role-play group designed to assist seven gay fathers to develop effective responses to a variety of situations they are likely to face. Six-month follow-up revealed that two members had voluntarily disclosed their iden y to their children and a third reported that the group helped him to respond to parental confrontation about his sexual orientation. All reported that the group helped them feel more comfortable about their children eventually knowing about their sexual orientation
Flaks, D. K., Ficher I., Masterpasqua, F., & Joseph, G. (1995). Lesbians choosing motherhood. A comparative study of lesbian and heterosexual parents and their children. Developmental Psychology, 31, 105-114..
Compares a group of 15 White lesbian couples living together with their 3-9 year old children born to them through artificial insemination with a matched sample of heterosexual parents and their children. A variety of assessment measures including the Child Behavior Checklist, Teacher's Report Form, the Spanier Dyadic Adjustment Scale, the Parent Awareness Skills Survey and either the WPPSI-R or WISC-R were used to measure the children's cognitive functioning and behavioral adjustment as well as the parents' relationship and parenting skills. Results revealed no significant differences between the two groups of children. Both groups of parents showed similar dyadic adjustment. However, the lesbian couples exhibited more parenting awareness skills than did the heterosexual couples.
Golombok, S., Spencer, A., & Rutter, M. (1983). Children in lesbian and single-parent households: Psychosexual and psychiatric appraisal. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 24, 551-572.
Compares aspects of child development in 27 lesbian households with a total of 37 children (aged 5-17 years) and 27 heterosexual single-parent households with a total of 38 children (aged 15-17 years). Data were gathered through systematic standardized interviews with mothers and children and through parent and teacher questionnaires. Ratings of the children's psychosexual and psychiatric status were done "blind" to family cir stances. Results indicated no differences between the children of lesbian and heterosexual mothers in gender iden y or sex-role behavior. There was no evidence of inappropriate gender iden y among the children of lesbian mothers, and age and developmentally appropriate friendships and good peer relationships were observed in both groups. Psychiatric problems among the children were infrequent in both groups but proportionately higher in the heterosexual single-parent group. Limitations of the study were that the follow-up period was short, and the children were not old enough for sexual orientation to be do ented behaviorally.
Green, R. (1978). Sexual iden y of 37 children raised by sexual or transsexual parents. American Journal of Psychiatry, 135, 692-697.
Thirty-seven subjects aged 3-20 years were either raised by lesbian women (21) or by transsexuals (16). Subjects had lived in these households from 1-16 years, with a mean time of 4.9 years. All but one subject indicated that toys, games, clothing, and gender of peers were typical for their gender. Thirteen older subjects indicated erotic fantasies or sexual behaviors, and all these subjects were heterosexual in orientation.
Green R. (1982). The best interests of the child with a lesbian mother. Bulletin of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law, 10, 7-15.
Reviews theoretical models and empirical data concerning whether a sexual parent or two sexual individuals in parenting roles increases the chance that children will have a sexual orientation. Also describes court evaluations of adults and children in lesbian custody cases. Fifty-eight children (aged 3-11 years) being raised by lesbian mothers were compared with 43 demographically matched children of divorced heterosexual mothers. Evaluation instruments included the Draw-A-Person test, questions regarding sex-typed activities, and future plans. There were no significant differences for boys or girls in either group of families. It is concluded that difficulties experienced by children in lesbian mother households stem from reactions to divorce and not from the mother's lesbianism.
Ok, jochhejaam, see that is a scientific source, maybe you could learn something
Maybe it should end when you start equating sexual desire and behavior with race.
Nice. When the flaw in your argument has been exposed, call people names. Weak.It's a argument frequently relied on by ignorant bigots. And the fact that you would compare sexuals to pedophiles or those committing bestiality shows that you fall into this category.
I see you're incapable of open and respectful debate.
Your argument is that if we grant sexuals, a group whose activities are not illegal, certain rights, then soon we will have to grant other groups, groups committing illegal acts, the same rights as well.
And I am the one with the flaw in my argument?
Also, I called you an ignorant bigot, because you equated sexuals with pedophiles and those committing bestiality. If you don't see a difference between those groups, then yes, you are an ignorant bigot.
Perhaps those acts are illegal for much the same reason that sexual acts were once illegal? Ever manage to consider that? Apparently not. You were too busy jumping to conclusions and labelling those who disagree with you.
Yes.And I am the one with the flaw in my argument?
And you're an individual with poor self-esteem who has to compensate by calling people names on the internets. If you can't see that you'll never be happy. Late.Also, I called you an ignorant bigot, because you equated sexuals with pedophiles and those committing bestiality. If you don't see a difference between those groups, then yes, you are an ignorant bigot.
Why? They are both immutable traits.
You can't control being born gay, any more than you can control being born Black.
I label one person on the internet an ignorant bigot and I am "an individual with....bla bla bla."
Yet, you denigrate an entire segment of society. So what does that make you? (please stop and think about this)
Last edited by Mr. Peabody; 02-25-2006 at 07:07 PM.
Peabody, if you had 2 children ages 2 months and 2 years and you weren't able to care for them would you prefer they be placed in a home with the traditional Mom and Dad or would you prefer that they be place in a home with Mom and Mom or Dad and Dad?
Gay marriage’ and sexuality: some medical comments
There are increased rates of mental ill health among the sexual population compared to the general population. Many studies show much higher rates of psychiatric illness, such as depression, suicide attempts and drug abuse among sexuals then among the general population. The sexual lifestyle is associated with a shortened life expectancy of up to 20 years.
In a New Zealand study, data were gathered on a range of psychiatric disorders among gay, lesbian, and bisexual young people. At the age of 21, sexuals/bisexuals were at fourfold increased risks of major depression and conduct disorder, fivefold increased risk of nicotine dependence, twofold increased risk of other substance misuse or addiction and six times more likely to have attempted suicide. (Fergusson DM et al. Is sexual orientation related to mental health problems and suicidality in young people? Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1999; 56: 876-80.)
In a recent US study of the mental health of sexuals, it was found that gay/bisexual men had a more than 3-fold increased risk of major depression and a five-fold increased risk of panic disorder. They were three times as likely to rate their mental health as only 'fair' or 'poor' and to experience high levels of distress. Gay/bisexual women had a nearly four-fold increased risk of general anxiety disorder and both groups were more than three times as likely than the general population to require treatment in a mental health setting. (Cochran S. et al. Prevalence of mental disorders, psychological distress, and mental health services use among lesbian, gay, and bisexual adults in the United States. J Consult Clin Psychol. 2003; 71 :53-61.)
It is claimed, that the high rates of mental illness among sexuals are the result of ' phobia'. However, even in the Netherlands, which has been far more tolerant to same-sex relationships and which has recently legalised same-sex marriages, high levels of psychiatric illness, including major depression, bipolar disorder ('manic depression'), agoraphobia, obsessive compulsive disorder and drug addiction are found. (Sandfort TG, et al. Same-sex sexual behavior and psychiatric disorders: findings from the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study (NEMESIS). Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001; 58 :85-91.)
Furthermore, if ' phobia' and prejudices were the cause of the high rates of psychiatric disorders and suicide attempts among sexuals, one would similarly expect to find higher rates of suicide attempts and suicide among ethnic minorities exposed to racism. However, this is not usually the case.
In a Vancouver study, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, it is estimated that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. (Hogg RS et al. Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men. International Journal of Epidemiology.1997; 26:657-61)
http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...ty/ho0095.html
So you want to place children in homes with people that have a high occurence of Mental disorders, practice deviant sexual behaviour and have greatly heightened health risks and then multiply the problems by two... Definitely doesn't sound like people I'd trust with my children.
I would want my children to be raised by a couple that would love and take care of them. I am sure that there are many gay couples that could do this. And I am also sure that there are many straight couples who couldn't do this.
Look at the studies above that I have posted. Children raised by gay couples are no different than children raised by straight couples.
You keep talking about potential harm to the children and yet, study after study shows that the child is not harmed. So what is your argument?
They are all grouped into the category of sexual disorders, do you know for a fact that the sexual disorder associated with sexuality doesn't make them prone or more inclined to engage in the criminalized sexual disorder of pedophilia?
[QUOTE]You avoided the question, which would be your preference?
I didn't avoid the question. My answer was that it would depend on the people. It's the same answer I would give you if you asked me to choose between a Black couple, a Chicano couple, or a white couple to raise my kids. It would depend on the people.
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