Can You Say, "Wedge-Issue"? (Abortion)

[smeagol]

there is a point very early in the pregnancy where the fetus is not alive, that is what I'm arguing here. If it does not feel, think, breath, move and has no brain activity whatsoever, it is not alive.

I found (and linked) a site where it says 88% of the pregnancies are terminated between the 6 and 12 weeks.

I did some research and I found that by the 12th week, that kid is approximately 8 cms (3 inches) long, has a beating heart, eyes are well formed, fingers and toes have soft nails, his ears, ankles and wrists have formed.

[smeagol]

there is a point very early in the pregnancy where the fetus is not alive, that is what I'm arguing here. If it does not feel, think, breath, move and has no brain activity whatsoever, it is not alive.

By the 25th day the heart starts beating. That is a good definition of "Alive".

By the end of the 2nd month, the fetus looks more like a person than a tadpole.

[smeagol]

Where are we as humans if it has indeed boiled down to the above question? Does murder 'on technicalities' justify an ends to anything???

When this question arises simply because people want to engage in extramarital sex without reproof of their actions it beckons the question. Has the sanc y of life been thrown out the window over selfish ends?

It's not always extramarital sex, Hector. Sadly enough many married couples perform abortions simply because they want to postpone having kids. Talk about selfishness.

[xrayzebra]

I found (and linked) a site where it says 88% of the pregnancies are terminated between the 6 and 12 months.

I did some research and I found that by the 12th month, that kid is approximately 8 cms (3 inches) long, has a beating heart, eyes are well formed, fingers and toes have soft nails, his ears, ankles and wrists have formed.

Might want to edit the above posting. Think you mis-spoke: Months?

[smeagol]

Might want to edit the above posting. Think you mis-spoke: Months?

Thanks. I have writing dislexia. A terrible desease.

I also confuse pro life advocates with pro choice advocates.

Sad.

[Mr. Peabody]

So are going to answer the question. I've asked it on another thread and Manumania took a shot at the question by saying that six weeks was acceptable because before that there is no brain activity.

I replied what if that particular kid developed brain activity early? Manumania never responded.

So what is your view? At what moment in the pregnancy is OK to abort?

It depends on the cir stances. Is the need for abortion due to a risk to the mother's health? If that's the case, then anytime up until the mother is no longer at risk is acceptable.

If there is no danger to the mother and there are no severe abnormalities in the baby, I would say the four or fifth month would be an appropriate limit.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

By the 25th day the heart starts beating. That is a good definition of "Alive".

By the end of the 2nd month, the fetus looks more like a person than a tadpole.

was I not clear about how I felt about the 6 week deadline?? I told you I support abortion prior and up to 6 weeks. What are you trying to point out??

(ofcourse, that is without taking into account any risk to the mother, because in that case I believe there is no deadline, the mother takes prescedence.)

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Where are we as humans if it has indeed boiled down to the above question? Does murder 'on technicalities' justify an ends to anything???

When this question arises simply because people want to engage in extramarital sex without reproof of their actions it beckons the question. Has the sanc y of life been thrown out the window over selfish ends?

what the does marriage have to do with anything?? What if I don't ever get married? should I refrain from having sex all my life because your beliefs frown upon it?? Furthermore if I have safe sex, but something goes wrong, and the woman I'm having sex with gets pregnant, are we (the woman and I) obligated to throw our lives and dreams away and have a child that was not born out of love, but rather out of lust? I'm sorry, just because you believe the fetus to be alive at conception does not make it a fact, and there in lies the issue.

[Peter]

There's already a choice made when it comes to being pregnant.

Make the exceptions life or health of mother, rape, and incest. It's a pity that anyone should terminate what is otherwise a normal pregnancy here in the wealthiest nation on earth.

[Phenomanul]

There's already a choice made when it comes to being pregnant.

Make the exceptions life or health of mother, rape, and incest. It's a pity that anyone should terminate what is otherwise a normal pregnancy here in the wealthiest nation on earth.

[Oh, Gee!!]

[smeagol]

If there is no danger to the mother and there are no severe abnormalities in the baby, I would say the four or fifth month would be an appropriate limit.

Are you a father, Mr P?

I cannot believe that a father, after going through the entire pregnancy and seen, heard and felt his son/daughter develop in his/hers mother's womb, tells me they support terminating a life in it's fifth month of a pregnancy.

Have you ever seen a sonogram of a five month baby? There are babies that are prematuraly born on the fifth month and are able to survive.

[smeagol]

was I not clear about how I felt about the 6 week deadline?? I told you I support abortion prior and up to 6 weeks. What are you trying to point out??

I'm trying to point out that you arbitrary 6 week limit has it's flaws. One obvious one is the heart of the fetus beating in day 25.

[smeagol]

:vomit

[Mr. Peabody]

Are you a father, Mr P?

I cannot believe that a father, after going through the entire pregnancy and seen, heard and felt his son/daughter develop in his/hers mother's womb, tells me they support terminating a life in it's fifth month of a pregnancy.

Have you ever seen a sonogram of a five month baby? There are babies that are prematuraly born on the fifth month and are able to survive.

That's the thing smeagol, I don't "support" it, as you say. I think terminating an otherwise healthy pregnancy is a selfish act and I have nothing but contempt for those that use abortion as a means of birth control. However, I don't think that my beliefs and opinions should keep another person from exercising control over their own body.

What gives me, you or anyone else the right to tell a woman that she must carry a child to term?

[Yonivore]

That's the thing smeagol, I don't "support" it, as you say. I think terminating an otherwise healthy pregnancy is a selfish act and I have nothing but contempt for those that use abortion as a means of birth control. However, I don't think that my beliefs and opinions should keep another person from exercising control over their own body.

What gives me, you or anyone else the right to tell a woman that she must carry a child to term?

At what point -- in your humble opinion -- does an unborn child become a person deserving the protections guaranteed by the fourth and other amendments to the U.S. Cons ution?

[scott]

When they can start making rent

[Yonivore]

When they can start making rent

So, a mother can exercise her right to abort until the child is able to "make rent?"

Wow! A lot of moms with couch potato kids will love to hear that.

[scott]

And then I make oil out of them. 3 birds killed with one sharp object designed to puncture the skull.

1) deadbeat kids
2) global over-population
3) global energy needs

Send my check now

[Yonivore]

And then I make oil out of them. 3 birds killed with one sharp object designed to puncture the skull.

1) deadbeat kids
2) global over-population
3) global energy needs

Send my check now

Okay, you probably shouldn't post when you've been drinking.

[scott]

You probably shouldn't post ever, so what's your point?

[Yonivore]

You probably shouldn't post ever, so what's your point?

That [I believe] you're stupid...just more so when you've apparently been drinking or are otherwise impaired. (Just remember, you asked.)

[smeagol]

That [I believe] you're stupid...just more so when you've apparently been drinking or are otherwise impaired. (Just remember, you asked.)

This is even funnier because Yoni hardly ever makes me laugh.

[Mr. Peabody]

At what point -- in your humble opinion -- does an unborn child become a person deserving the protections guaranteed by the fourth and other amendments to the U.S. Cons ution?

Why? Are you about to argue that the President also has the authority to wiretap unborn children?

[Oh, Gee!!]

At what point -- in your humble opinion -- does an unborn child become a person deserving the protections guaranteed by the fourth and other amendments to the U.S. Cons ution?

after birth