Crash vs. Brokeback

[jcrod]

Crash was ok.

I thought Cinderalla Man was better, I don't like Russell Crow, but liked the movie.

Walk the line also was very well acted by Jaquin and Resse.

The one that suprised me was Hustle and Flow. Terence Howard was great in that movie and I can't stand rap.

[1Parker1]

Hotel Rwanda is my favorite movie made in the past ten years. It's criminal that it didn't win more awards, but I think its popularity will grow over time, like Shawshank.

I'm still hung up on the fact that Don Cheadle didn't win Best Actor last year for that film...

[Jekka]

I'm still hung up on the fact that John Cheadle didn't win Best Actor last year for that film...

Or Don Cheadle

[1Parker1]

Or Don Cheadle

My bad...I'm typing really fast in between doing actual work at work.

[Melmart1]

Don Cheadle is a highly underrated actor.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Pure utter BULL for reasons already stated. If that were true it would have NEVER been cast by a major studio, with major stars, nominated for an Oscar, and then all but considered the winner until Jack Nickleson said Crash and shocked everyone in the room.

I didn't say EVERYONE in America is anti-gay Jelly, but you can't deny that there is prejudice, and a lot of it. Fine you believe what you will, I still say giving the oscar to "Brokeback" would have been a far too controvertial move at this point and that is why it didn't get it. Its politics, pure and simple.

" You don't believe me, check out the "gay adoption" and "gay marriage" threads in this forum and you'll get a glimpse of what I'm talking about."

I don't need to. I live here. I am American. I know Americans, I travel around quite a bit, and therefore have a far more accurate view than what one can glean from a message board based in one of the most conservative states in the U.S.

I assume you are refering to me with that. Its funny because you have no idea from where I "glean" my views from. I grew up with Americans, all of highschool. I know a bit about American culture. In fact I'd be inclined to say I'm more American than I am Argentinian, influence wise. So don't think you can just dismiss my views as if I were talking out of my ass and no nothing of American culture.

As a whole, we are a country of extreme liberals, extreme conservatives, moderates and everything in between. But the people who make Academy award decisions are most definitely the libs.

I do agree here, but even liberals have to take into account the reactions of the conservative side, that's what politics is all about.

And regarding the gay adoption and marriage thing, please tell me how long gay marriage and adoption has been legal in Argentina...or any Latin American country? Both are currently legal in at least a few states. Gay adoption has been legal for quite some time in many states (it might even be legal in the whole country...I'm not sure).

you completely missuderstood my point. You clearly were too busy feeling insulted by the fact that I said there is too much prejudice in America to analyse what I was saying. I don't believe it IS legal for gays to be married here in Argentina, nor is it legal for them to adopt, I don't think.

I do know however that as of March 1 this year the Argentinian senate is debating wether or not to pass a law that would make both those legal for sexuals in Argentina. The project is called "el projecto de ley de union civil". Also, did you know that as of last year, Buenos Aires was proclaimed "Gay capital of the World" beating Rio de Janeiro?

Now I'm not saying there is no prejudice towards gay people over here, but there certainly is less in countries like Brasil and Argentina than there is in the US, thats for sure.

NOW, let me be perfectly clear, I did not mean for this to become a pissing contest between the States and Argentina, because clearly the US has the upper hand. I was mearly stating what I believed to be the reason "Brokeback" didn't win, seeing how it was indeed a better movie than crash.

I know this. I said he should have been nominated for best actor for his performance in Crash.

I loved Crash. And that was absolutely the BEST ensemble acting I've ever seen. Terrence Howard was absolutely brilliant (still can't believe he wasn't nominated in the best actor category).

Sorry then, I missunderstood you, but judging by what you wrote, I think you can see how I made that mistake

[Jelly]

"Now I'm not saying there is no prejudice towards gay people over here, but there certainly is less in countries like Brasil and Argentina than there is in the US, thats for sure."

I don't know how you can possibly justify this remark. Care to elaborate?

btw, I have a friend from Peru who says gays are absolutely persecuted and treated so badly that no one dares come out of the closet and most are forced to move. (In fact, she says most - if they can afford to- move to the U.S. where they can be gay freely without harassment. well, now...how about that?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

"Now I'm not saying there is no prejudice towards gay people over here, but there certainly is less in countries like Brasil and Argentina than there is in the US, thats for sure."

I don't know how you can possibly justify this remark. Care to elaborate?

, I really don't know how I could explain. I know both cultures, I've lived in both countries. Americans are generally more phobic than Brasilians or Argentinians.

For example, out of personal experience, here is a thing that happened to me when I first went to the US. Over here in Argentina we are used to greeting with a kiss on the cheek, even among men. I was in a friends house in Miami, and he introduced me to a friend of his, and I instinctively leaned over to greet him with a kiss on the cheek, and his remark was "what the ? what are you, gay?" Now I know the dude does not represent the majority of Americans, and again I am in no way saying ALL Americans are this way, but it is certainly a good chunk of the population.

Over here we are a bit more open about things like that, and in Brasil even more.

btw, I have a friend from Peru who says gays are absolutely persecuted and treated so badly that no one dares come out of the closet and most are forced to move. (In fact, she says most - if they can afford to- move to the U.S. where they can be gay freely without harassment. well, now...how about that?

that is Peru, I'm talking about Argentina and Brasil. When did I EVER mention Peru?

[Jelly]

and actually Manumania, I do have an idea of where you've developed some of your ideas about the U.S. If you recall, I once asked where you've lived and you listed about seven countries - from memory you have lived in South America, the U.K., maybe a few other Euro countries and Lybia (I think). The United States was not on your list (though I know you have at least visited). hahah. didn't think I'd remember that did you?

In any case, my point was not so much about your not being American, but that you suggested I read the posts on this message board to "better" understand the American mindset, which you have to admit, is a ridiculous suggestion...especially to someone who freakin' lives here and hence, has immediate access to Americans of all stripes every day.

[MannyIsGod]

You want to see a good character montage, go rent Happy Endings. Lisa Kudrow is funny as in that movie.

[CharlieMac]

Yeah, I should probably check those out soon.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

and actually Manumania, I do have an idea of where you've developed some of your ideas about the U.S. If you recall, I once asked where you've lived and you listed about seven countries - from memory you have lived in South America, the U.K., maybe a few other Euro countries and Lybia (I think). The United States was not on your list (though I know you have at least visited). hahah. didn't think I'd remember that did you?

What are you tryign to do? prove me wrong? I actually lived in Miami for like 3 months when I was like 10 However, I went to an American Highschool from grades 1 - 12. A school made up of 95% americans, and 5% international students from various countries. Trust me, influence wise, I'm half American practically.

In any case, my point was not so much about your not being American, but that you suggested I read the posts on this message board to "better" understand the American mindset, which you have to admit, is a ridiculous suggestion...especially to someone who freakin' lives here and hence, has immediate access to Americans of all stripes every day.

You are right, I did suggest that, and that was ridiculous. However, you seem to think I said ALL Americans are prejudiced towards gay people, when in reality I simply stated there is much prejudice in America, and that is not the preposterous now, is it?

[Jelly]

"that is Peru, I'm talking about Argentina and Brasil. When did I EVER mention Peru?"
You didn't. That is why I started with "By the way" as in "I know this is not directly related"

As far as the men kissing as greeting thing, yes, you would make American men VERY uncomfortable with that. It is not in our culture for men to greet other men with kisses...unless they are gay. But because we have different ways of greeting people does not make us phobes (although that guy you kissed may have been...who knows...)

[MaNuMaNiAc]

"that is Peru, I'm talking about Argentina and Brasil. When did I EVER mention Peru?"
You didn't. That is why I started with "By the way" as in "I know this is not directly related"

As far as the men kissing as greeting thing, yes, you would make American men VERY uncomfortable with that. It is not in our culture for men to greet other men with kisses...unless they are gay. But because we have different ways of greeting people does not make us phobes (although that guy you kissed may have been...who knows...)

Why would you be very uncomfortable with a kiss on the cheeck is you are not afraid of that person being gay? seriously now? I'm not talking about missunderstandings, this has happened to me quite a few times too. Its not an isolated event. Ofcourse I stop doing it after a while I didn't like all the reactions I was getting

I'd venture to say most American men are not comfortable when it comes to male affection. Perhaps that has nothing to do with phobia, either way I find it a bit odd. This is not to say there is no one over here in Argentina who feels uncomfortable with male bonding, but I don't know, I suppose they aren't the majority

EDIT: Just to make it perfectly clear, when I say male affection or bonding, I simply mean a hug, or a kiss on the cheek. When it comes to sexuals, there is plenty of people over here that don't feel comfortable even being around them.

[Jelly]

It's just a different culture Manumania. Men don't kiss each other! Ever! Anywhere! Unless they are gay....not that there's anything wrong with that.
There are other cultures where this is also not an acceptable greeting.

Now if you were really half American you would stop going around kissing everybody In fact, many women would be uncomfortable with a kiss on the cheek from someone they just met and even women who are good friends rarely greet each other with kisses. We are not French for God's sake!! We are handshake people. Not touchy, feely, put your lips all over me just seconds after we meet types. Also, Americans tend to need more personal space during conversations than most other nationalities, so when conversing with an American try not to get in their face to much. Just a little tip from me to you. Good luck on your next trip to the U.S. and try not to get beat up

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It's just a different culture Manumania. Men don't kiss each other! Ever! Anywhere! Unless they are gay....not that there's anything wrong with that.
There are other cultures where this is also not an acceptable greeting.

Now if you were really half American you would stop going around kissing everybody In fact, many women would be uncomfortable with a kiss on the cheek from someone they just met and even women who are good friends rarely greet each other with kisses. We are not French for God's sake!! We are handshake people. Not touchy, feely, put your lips all over me just seconds after we meet types. Also, Americans tend to need more personal space during conversations than most other nationalities, so when conversing with an American try not to get in their face to much. Just a little tip from me to you. Good luck on your next trip to the U.S. and try not to get beat up

trust me, I know all of that. I was talking about 14 years ago I know how Americans are. Besides Jelly, the kiss on the cheek I'm talking about, had nothing sexual about it, its just a greet. I don't see how anybody can be uncomfortable with a friendly greet, but you are right, its a different culture.

[danyel]

I've seen several of the nominated movies although I haven't seen brokeback mountain. I thought Crash just plained sucked for me, I didn't like it at all.

Things I didn't like about Crash:

- I felt Its a patronising movie, as If I wouldn't know that racism is still an issue in modern society.

- Its structure is really similar to Magnolia, which I believe was a better movie.

- Some scenes really bothered me, too corny, too cliched.

All in all I just think people is reading between the lines too much, its just an award, they voted the movie they liked the better and Crash won. Congrats.

They could have chosen a different movie if they didnt wanted to vote for Brokeback, whatever reason they had to, but they voted for Crash.

The ultimate movie about racism for me would be "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner".

[T-Pain]

This statement seems to contradict itself. Isn't calling two gay men 'flamers' a stereotype? So you basically used a stereotype to explain why a movie that seeks to explain the affects of stereotyping is better than a movie that seeks to do the same.

In other words, a movie about racial stereotypes>a movie about gay ones?

you got it

[SA210]

I missed this thread.

Crash was great, it is a very touching film. Well deserving of the Oscar.
And it does show what people really think.
Great film, Inspiring.

[TheTruth]

Matty's Top 5 Films of 2005 (in no particular order)

King Kong, A History of Violence, Munich, Cinderella Man, Batman

[MannyIsGod]

I keep meaning to add a History of Violence to my Netflix QuequewququuqueuqeuQ

[TheTruth]

do it. aragorn kicks ass.

[MannyIsGod]

@ Aragon

I just added it. And moved it to the top of the list.

[Manuismysex]

I think that the issues of racism and and society's stereotypes is a very relatable subject to everyone...unlike gay cowboys. The cast and the acting was also superb. Crash was the underdog and they won it all, so go them!!

[ObiwanGinobili]

I watched Mean Creek the other night. top notch. I loved it. definatly 4 stars out of 5.

meanwhile that same night 150 miles away my mom watched History of Violence. She said it sucked. she wanted her rental $$ back. But I think I'll still put in my Netflix queue. Afterall - she told me Batman Begins was a great movie and it sucked ass.