a) link to a transcript of the show.
b) link to a blog/article about the show.
c) link to previous statements by the man saying the same thing. The guys who go on news shows say the same things over and over.
No, it doesn't. The ACLU has nothing to do with forgien affairs, to begin with.Sounds like the ACLU and Howard Dean wrapped up into one pretty little package.
You don't even know what facism is.So, now Im a facist??
Thanks......
The things you believe in are not very far off from their trains of thought.I supported the war to remove Saddam, sooo I HIGHLY doubt that...
No, its horrible how you run your mouth then bust out the "poor me" tone in some way shape or form at the end. What is it this week Tpark? A tumor of the brain? No, you would need a brain for that wouldn't you?No, the good old days of films by John Wayne and others being PRO america.
Is that so horrible to want a PRO america film??
Pardon me....
i knew someone would bring the thread to this the second i clicked on it
tpark you're hilarious
About the movie though--Scale of 1 to 10?
I have wanted to see this, but I kinda forgot it was released this weekend.
The movie was awesome, despite it's political grounds. That's why the original Author of the Graphic Novel distanced himself from the W Brothers screenplay. I really hated the changes that were done in regards to including American influences & current situations, but it was still a great movie.
I don't know if this has already been said of the film, as I haven't read everything posted. I didn't care to get involved in the personal issues here, so I just kinda skimmed.
In my opinion, the government that is depicted is much more like a radical Islamist power than anything. They confiscate art, music, teachings... basically anything deemed offensive for no other reason than that said person deems it offensive. They suppress free speech to the extent where any dissent is met with death. They give only the news they believe is relevent to keeping the populous informed of their agenda and do so through lies and manipulation by the government-run broadcast station. There are curfews and women aren't seemingly thought much of.
Serisouly, I know names and issues were changed to make this a more controversial film, but the the rebellion really isn't against today's America as much as it's against today's radical Islam.
Every reason why America should be encouraged and supported for this war was depicted in this film. True, the plot has been twisted. but if one went in and new nothing of the subtle political jabs, one could easily see that the inspiration for this films tyranical government was far more the Middle East and far less Western Culture.
But in order to market the film to a civilized world that can actually see such a movie, they changed things aroud a bit.
That's the political take I have.
As for the film, if you can ignore the lame attempts at controversy, it's a very good film. If you can see the importance of the message, then you'd see why America is to "V" as Radical Islam is to the government he's bent on overthrowing.
I enjoyed many aspects, but would find it hard to recommend, because many might not be able to see it as I did.
It's certainly thought-provoking, though, again, it's attempt at being controversial is now overhyped and came up rather lame.
I was supposed to see this movie yesterday, but it didn't happen. But I still want to check it out. I never trust what critics say, they're full of crap.
I did just get back from watching "Night Watch" tho. Wow. Very cool movie. I highly recommend that, for those that don't mind its in Russian and you have to read the sub- les. Its the first one in the Trilogy. Very good movie imo.
I also saw the previews for the new movie, Scanner Darkly. That's gonna be different.
It is depicting a facist regime, not America. It's an arguement against government as a whole. Many Islamic governments are indeed facist so they would fit into the same category as the government in the movie.
The film was made to fit into todays world. It wasn't made to be against America although America is heading down a very hegemonic path it is no where near the level of the government in the film. Once again, it wasn't made to be a symbol against Islamic countries in general, but facism and government in general. The film is very pro classic anarchist.Serisouly, I know names and issues were changed to make this a more controversial film, but the the rebellion really isn't against today's America as much as it's against today's radical Islam.
You're out of your mind here. America has done nothing but increase government size in the past 5 years and ins ute very hegemonic principles with the Defense of Marriage Act etc so for you to spin this into a Pro American film is incredibly far off base.Every reason why America should be encouraged and supported for this war was depicted in this film. True, the plot has been twisted. but if one went in and new nothing of the subtle political jabs, one could easily see that the inspiration for this films tyranical government was far more the Middle East and far less Western Culture.
I wasn't turning it into a Pro-America film. I was mainly saying that the government depicted is hardly a Western Culture society and much more Radical Islam...
Which led me to this observation...
If the movie wants its audience to side with that of the revolution, namely because of the injustice being done by the films government against the films populous, then a real life application could/should be made that America's ongoing fight against sects of Radical Islam should at the very least be understood, if not supported.
If the message of the movie was to make unjust governments be held accountable for their actions against their populous, by the populous, then how can the movie audience sympathise on film, then condemn in real life?
Of course the movie isn't Pro-America, but it is Pro-liberty and pro-justice for all... That's what I took.
Even if it had some anarchist ideals, such as the revolt itself, I thought they were largely overshadowed by the pursuit of liberty and justice for all...
I think you misunderstand anarchy. Anarchy is the absence of government of any form. The constant theme in this film is against government. The film cannot be anagolous to the US war on radical Islam because the film does not deal with 2 governments against each other but people against their own government. If you want to make comparisons between Islamo Facist governments and the government in the film you can absolutely do so correctly. You could even drawn lines between the revolutionists in Iran and the people in the film. But you can't hold the US in a favorable light within the context of this movie when we are undertaking many of the negatives in the film at this time. It just won't fly.
Perhaps I'll need to see it again, but anarchy, in my view, was never the theme of importance that you're making it out to be.
I understand where you're coming from and see that you, for the most part, see where I'm coming from.
I don't, however, see where anarchy was the central reason for the revolution. I interpreted it to be the seeking of liberty for the populous and justice against the tyranical, facist dictatorship. Certainly, aspects of anarchy were incorperated, but I didn't come away with the notion that the government was overthrown just for the of it, or did I come away thinking that once done, society would stay in such a fashion.
I get it. They were partakers in a revolution, but that in no way makes them anymore the anarchists that the sepratists were waaaayyyyy back in the mid-to-late 1700's...
Anyway... Again, I'm not saying the film is pro-America. I'm saying a person can look at the film and see, if not take aspects of the film that directly apply to real life, specifically the war and America's and Islam's roles within.
The movie isn't intentionally promoting it, but if one wished to connect the dots the film laid out, it's a logical step...
But I've stated my thoughts on the movie and the aspects from which, that I chose to apply. I no longer wish to discuss it. It's out there...
Perhaps I'm not seeing or remembering something. Perhaps I'm reading too much into things. Perhaps, we both are to a certain extent...
Anarchy is synounomous with seeking liberty for a populous!!!!
Hence, the term Libertarian coming from Liberty!
Well, the those "sepratists" were very much Libertarians which is about as close to anarchy as you can come. They were anarchists!I get it. They were partakers in a revolution, but that in no way makes them anymore the anarchists that the sepratists were waaaayyyyy back in the mid-to-late 1700's...
You can't take a film about revolution and use it to find similiarities on anything but a revolution. Its that simple.Anyway... Again, I'm not saying the film is pro-America. I'm saying a person can look at the film and see, if not take aspects of the film that directly apply to real life, specifically the war and America's and Islam's roles within.
The movie isn't intentionally promoting it, but if one wished to connect the dots the film laid out, it's a logical step...
But I've stated my thoughts on the movie and the aspects from which, that I chose to apply. I no longer wish to discuss it. It's out there...
Perhaps I'm not seeing or remembering something. Perhaps I'm reading too much into things. Perhaps, we both are to a certain extent...
I liked the movie a lot. The world it describes in England is like a combination of Nazi Germany and Orwellian fantasy. Basically, you can't question government or be gay. Oh, and there's only one TV channel, and the gov't controls all the programming on it. Anybody who thinks this is an anti-America, Bush hating leftist movie needs to chill out. Bush is against gay marriage, but I'm pretty sure he's not for gay torture and death. Also, last I checked, nobody cares if I watch Comedy Central or HBO where comedians bash our government all day long. So we're not exactly living in a fascist nightmare.
It's just a fun movie, the best one I've seen in '06 (which means nothing by the way), and I like the movie's motto, "People aren't supposed to be afraid of their government, the government is supposed to be afraid of its people."
It is a PRO America movie. Just a 1776 kinda America, that's all.
The film isn't an Anti-government film. It's an anti-that specific government film.
So to say it's anarchy because they were overthrowing a corrupt, murderous regime in the name of liberty and justice just doesn't make complete sense to me.
Anarchist ideal, yes... Whole and complete anarchy, no...
Had that government been openminded towards religions, peoples, cultures, I don't sense the conflict. It was the overbearingness of the depicted regime that drew the ire of the people and the crimes of the leaders that helped sound the bell of freedom.
Had they not been overbearing and evil, I'm not seeing the need for a revolution, thus to say their revolt was pure anarchy just isn't correct in my opinion.
Now look what you've done... You made me respond!!!
DAMN IT!
Jmark, with all due respect I don't think you understand political anarchism/libertarianism all that much.
libertarianism = socialism = wrong [/tpark]
I don't. I also don't see how it applies as much as you make it sound...
I said there's anarchist ideals. I just can't concede whole, complete anarchy for the reason of the revolution, but I'm not as in to politics as most, so it may just be me.
To an extent, it seems we agree, until the anarchy issues comes in.
so, let's just leave it at that...
Complete anarchy isn't the reason for the revolution. Being free is the reason for the revolution. But anarchist reasoning is that the government is ultimately always limiting your freedom.
The reason anarchists revolt against the government is to be free which is parrallel to this film!
We just got back from seeing it. I was pretty impressed. I wasn't expecting much going into it but after watching it I think it was one of the best movies I've ever seen, seriously. I'm probably the least political person on this board but I even enjoyed it. I'd recommend it to anyone, even if you think it's about Bush-hating or not Bush-hating, or whatever...just go see it before you judge it.
Now, that makes sense and is very similer to my line of thinking. My only difference was that instead of complete definition of goverment (as in every type), it was more focused on a spcific form of goverment and had their been a differing form, one more understanding, less corrupt and tolerant, then the revolution wouldn't have occured.
We're similer in opinion, I just take a little bit more liberty in forming an opinion
Before I couldn't, but now I see from whence you cometh
I think you are missing the fact that pretty much all established governments slowly and steadily head towards an extreme, an extreme that seems to be depicted in this film. You said yourself, its not againt "governmetn but that type of government"
well naturally
Cuz that type of government is what all governments inevitably become.
No government is an island, unchanging and uninfluenced.
That is why (based on history) revolutions seem to go in cycles.
Read Animal Farm or something.
Yes I see now. I was taking a specific of the movie and interpreting it literally. Others took the same specific and interpreted it figuratively.
Got it. Thanks...
Well a movie about a revolution is a movie about a revolution.
This seems pretty straightforward to me.
Taking a movie about a revolution and assuming its anti-islamic fascism and pro-usa against iraq is not.
Exactly. Animal farm is a great similarity. Orwell's work is all genius.
I still haven't seen it ( ing show times were too late today) but unless bald Natalie and the masked dude were advocating democracy and death of muslims then it seems common sense to realize its all about anarchy...
Good Lord... I had two comments. One on the movie, one from which I could apply certain aspects of the movie.
My misunderstanding of the complexities of anarchy stemmed from the first area of comment. I made comment that the revolution was against a specific type of goverment, not government in general and blah, blah, blah ensued.
Thanks. You've been most helpful in an arrogant, prickish fashion.
From there, I said that aspects of the film could be applied to real life. Not that it was the films intent, but that a person could draw a line from scenerios on screen to scenerios in real life.
I never said the film was a pro-USA metaphor. In fact I said it wasn't pro-America at all.
Again, thanks for all you comments. You've added some new perspective to the film, which was all that was needed. Shame you couldn't check the elitist at ude on your way in to the coverse.
Like I said in my initial post. I wanted to avoid personal issues. Forgive me for tiptoeing around in an attempt to both express my opinion, but also seek the why's for others.
Manny was objective enough and gave some good insight. I now see what I couldn't see at first post.
I never pretended to know what I was talking about in reguards to anarchism and such. Thanks for rubbing my nose in my own ignorance.
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