Mvp Race

[melo061]

He's been doing this month for one month. Kobe in February averaged a wicked 43-5-4 on 47% shooting. I don't see how those numbers are not mvp numbers [using you're logics]. Consider the fact that march was horrible for the mavs [9-8 i believe] and i know they had injuries but it compensates for the horrible teamates that kobe has.

Secondly Kobe's not 7 foot like Dirk nowtizki, and yet Dirk for his height isn't even in double digits interms of rebounding. Kobe in october of 2002-2003 averaged double digits in rebounding and kobe's a 6-6 shooting guard

Thirdly do you use logic when posting? An assist can only occur when the other player scoers. How many times has Marshall and Damon jones bricked open 3's. Is it lebron's fault that he can't make them better and make them hit those open 3's? Is it kobe's fault that somehow Smush parker and sasha brick open shots? If Dirk was passing to them would they score? Logic please.

[mavsfan1000]

Well passing has something to do with how well the pass is thrown. Dirk is a good passer if you watch. I don't see Kobe getting players a lot of open shots since he struggles with court vision. I believe Kobe last year led the league in turnovers so him passing is a bad thing considering it leads to turnovers. The regular season starts in November or as early or late October for some so I guess 1 game Kobe had double digits. Smush Parker is no Terry from outside but I'm sure he could hit his fair share of 3's. Dirk could find Odom slashing to the basket if doubled. Lebron tends to get fancy with passes and I feel make it hard to hit 3's with long passes that Lebron does on a regular basis to the corner.

[melo061]

That kobe double digit rebounding was preseason stats i believe.

Secondly how good would dirk do iniating an offense? especially a compeletly new offense? Kobe still managed before the allstar game to average 7 assits per game. It only declined when Rudy left and Hamblen went out.

Thirdly have you not seen how many good looks smush gets? Do you even know why he gets those open shots? It;s because of Kobe and Odom. And yet he bricks some open ones. Sasha who's supposdedly the best shooter on the lakers bricks open looks.

And this is all you assuming stuff, the truth is that Kobe iniated an offense for the 3 peat and last season. Dirk hasn't, therefore in regards to passing Dirk is not in the league of Kobe.

You fail to explain why Dirk is more valuable than Lebron and Kobe. I really want to see how homerish you really are.

[mavsfan1000]

The stats don't prove your point. You are assuming that Kobe initiating means Kobe creating. Kobe's 3 peat was with the most dominant player ever which is Shaq. It would be scary if Dirk had Shaq. The inside-out game would be unstoppable. Dirk shooting 43% from 3's is only something Kobe would dream about. Kobe has never been close to that though he can hit almost as good on fg's and ft's. The fact is Dirk is a very efficient shooter while at the exact time able to carry a team if needed though you disagree.

[melo061]

Wtf? What are you mumbling about? If kobe's iniating, he is creating? That was his purpose in the 3 peat. What else would he be doing? Taking 27 shots and ignoring his teamates? He didn't do that with teamates who could actually hit shots [ala like what lebron does, drives and passes to open teamate for the win]

He didn't start shooting alot until 2003 when Shaq got injured.

Secondly yes, Dirk is efficent. He's the 3rd most efficent player in the league with kobe being 4th. However Dirk does no carry his team on his back to the extent that lebron and kobe Do. Stats prove that.

Thank you, i think this discussion is over. I think i've shown why Lebron and kobe are more valuable and all you come out with is assumptions.

edit: Dirk only takes 3 3 point shots in a game compared to 6 by kobe. Who do you think is going to shoot better? Ray allen is shooting a worse percentage than dirk, does that mean dirk is a better 3 point shot? Remind me when Dirk can consistently hit a turnaround jumper like kobe can. Remind me when Dirk can hit a fadeaway 3. Remind me when Dirk plays defense.

Remind me? There never going to happen. No point in asking.

[mavsfan1000]

Since Kobe takes tougher shots that makes him better? Isn't it more important to have good shot selection? Ray Allen btw lost to Dirk in the 3 point contest. Dirk maybe doesn't carry the team to the extent as Lebron or Kobe to because he doesn't have to but his teams record is clearly better than Kobe's or Lebron's. I think that it is more important to have a good recored if the stats are close. San Antonio has 2 players, Detroit has 2 players, and Dallas has 1 player. Therefore Dirk has the stats and the record to get the MVP.

[1Parker1]

Dirk maybe doesn't carry the team to the extent as Lebron or Kobe to because he doesn't have to

Um, I think that was his point. That Dirk has a better supporting cast, therefore his team has the better record and his stats are obviously better. How can you say Dallas only has "1 player" whatever that means and therefore has the stats and record for MVP??

Obviously Kobe is the better, more natural athlete and obviously Dirk is going to get more rebounds etc. since he is a 7 foot forward/center.

[mavsfan1000]

Um, I think that was his point. That Dirk has a better supporting cast, therefore his team has the better record and his stats are obviously better. How can you say Dallas only has "1 player" whatever that means and therefore has the stats and record for MVP??

Obviously Kobe is the better, more natural athlete and obviously Dirk is going to get more rebounds etc. since he is a 7 foot forward/center.

For whatever athletic advantage Kobe has is neutralized by Dirk's size advantage. The whole point is Kobe scores more points on a average team and Dirk's stats are close and he is on a team in pace of 60 wins. I said 1 player because there is no one else on the team near MVP status and no other all-stars either unlike Nash. There could be an argument that Lebron is better than Kobe also but I don't want to get into that.

[v2000]

For whatever athletic advantage Kobe has is neutralized by Dirk's size advantage. The whole point is Kobe scores more points on a average team and Dirk's stats are close and he is on a team in pace of 60 wins. I said 1 player because there is no one else on the team near MVP status and no other all-stars either unlike Nash. There could be an argument that Lebron is better than Kobe also but I don't want to get into that.

the fact is, you have to have wins to get MVP. The Lakers have been very average this year, and the Cavs have been pretty good, but don't forget that they are in the Eastern Conference, which is CLEARLY weaker than the West. Like I said before... it's between Nash and Dirk, maybe Lebron. Billups has the luxury of the best starting lineup in the NBA. Wade has the luxury of Shaq in the middle. Whomever says Parker is a moron. Parker isnt the MVP, or even the second best player on his own team.

It will be either Dirk or Nash... no question about it. If somehow the Mavs are able to pull off getting the first seed (which is EXTEREMELY unlikely), then Dirk should get it without question. If they lose to the Spurs on friday though, I don't think he will get it. A lot for the Mavs depends on this game Friday, ESPECIALLY if the Spurs lose tonight, which I won't be suprized if they do.

[dieman8686]

Um, I think that was his point. That Dirk has a better supporting cast, therefore his team has the better record and his stats are obviously better. How can you say Dallas only has "1 player" whatever that means and therefore has the stats and record for MVP??

Obviously Kobe is the better, more natural athlete and obviously Dirk is going to get more rebounds etc. since he is a 7 foot forward/center.

Kobe of course is a better then Dirk...but he doesn't deserve MVP rights for that...When you talk about putting someones team on his back it means more like a clutch player to help win games and not one team that sucks with one great player in it who does all the work...


So I guess that Nash, GArnet, and Timmy did all the work for their teams, and thats why they won MVP?

An MVP makes his supporting cast better and takes less pressure off them. For example thats why Nash won MVP last year. No, he wasn't the best player(not even in his team...), but he made his cast a whole lot better. I'm not saying Dirk is Nash, but when the Mavericks need a shot, he can give it to them.
Plus MVP is depicted on a teams record too, yall trying to say that an7-8 seeded team's one man team is going to take it away from one of the top 4 seeds on either the west or eastern confrence?

Pistons<Spurs pretty much Sums it up for me too

There is no way I could give LBJ the MVP. How many times this year has he had the opportunity to truly be an MVP, only to pass the ball or miss his shot when it really counted? Those are MVP moments. Much like KG not wanting the ball when it matters, so too w/ LBJ. Only once this year has he had a MVP moment that won a game for the team. How many times have you seen MVP performances from Kobe,Billups,Dirk or Wade to win a game?

Even though he mentions Kobe in the last part about clutch plays to win the games, it kind of cancels out with what the records team is...

[dieman8686]

the fact is, you have to have wins to get MVP. The Lakers have been very average this year, and the Cavs have been pretty good, but don't forget that they are in the Eastern Conference, which is CLEARLY weaker than the West. Like I said before... it's between Nash and Dirk, maybe Lebron. Billups has the luxury of the best starting lineup in the NBA. Wade has the luxury of Shaq in the middle. Whomever says Parker is a moron. Parker isnt the MVP, or even the second best player on his own team.

It will be either Dirk or Nash... no question about it. If somehow the Mavs are able to pull off getting the first seed (which is EXTEREMELY unlikely), then Dirk should get it without question. If they lose to the Spurs on friday though, I don't think he will get it. A lot for the Mavs depends on this game Friday, ESPECIALLY if the Spurs lose tonight, which I won't be suprized if they do.

Totally agree.

[baseline bum]

Nash was dominated by Billups in their two head to head matchups and he's at best an average defender so I agree.

Nash is at best one of the 10 worst defensive players I've ever seen since I began watching the NBA in 1985.

[ducks]

You admit James will win the award in the future??? What's happening to your hatred?!

stern will make the media give him the mvp award
he has to single out a young player and since he has already run james name down everyone's throat he has to stick with him or waste millions

[baseline bum]

James does not deserve the MVP this season... he's not even close. Early in the season I was really impressed by him, but he passes too much in crunch situations and has let too many teams come back on him while he did nothing. I'm starting to believe Carmello Anthony is the stud of that draft class, because he's unstoppable in close games and pressure situations.

[1Parker1]

I'm not sold with Dirk at all...I'd think Billups is more of an MVP more than him.

We shall see who wins it in a few months. I'm going with either Kobe or Billups.

[v2000]

Nash is at best one of the 10 worst defensive players I've ever seen since I began watching the NBA in 1985.

That is what annoyed the out of me when he was with Dallas, and why I was actually glad he was gone. Most people said Dallas wouldnt be good without him, but they actually got better.

[melo061]

People's clutch definitioms are too stingy. When lebron attracts double teams and passes it open for Murray for the win, that is clutch. He plays smart basketball and he doesn't have that mentality that all my shots are going in [ala MJ].

edit: I'm a carmelo fan here, but Carmelo is not better than lebron. I'm telling you here. Lebron does other stuff besides scoring, he helps on the boards, assits. Carmelo is a stud in the 4th but that doesn't make him better. That only means he's better than lebron in the 4th [ not even, carmelo goes crazy with 10 seconds left]. The thing that had carmelo in advtange has no be rescinded, with lebron leading his team to the playoffs.

Lebron has the advtange in the first 47 minutes and carmelo last minute? Who's better? You think about it.

[baseline bum]

I've seen James play incredibly passive with the game on the line many times. Carmello has the killer instinct that James has never shown. LeBron's way more talented, but Carmello wills his team to wins against a much tougher schedule in a way LeBron never has. Being unselfish is a double-edged sword for James... but he's starting to look a lot like KG... best player in the game through three quarters, and then nowhere to be found when winning time rolls around.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I've seen James play incredibly passive with the game on the line many times. Carmello has the killer instinct that James has never shown. LeBron's way more talented, but Carmello wills his team to wins against a much tougher schedule in a way LeBron never has. Being unselfish is a double-edged sword for James... but he's starting to look a lot like KG... best player in the game through three quarters, and then nowhere to be found when winning time rolls around.

He's learning how to close out games. He pretty much did everything in the last 5 minutes of the Miami game...

You could make a case for 4-5 guys to win the MVP. As long as it isn't Nash, I'm cool with it..

[Obstructed_View]

Maybe that would work, cept in the last two years the Cavs collapsed because he did.

Bull. ing. . His team quit on him, and he lacked the experience and the leadership to kick them in the dingding and get them going again. That's part of being MVP, but he never quit playing the last two years. He's still not a good leader; last night he got a beautiful alley-oop pass from a teammate and stood there posing after the dunk instead of crediting the dude that made the pass.

[Obstructed_View]

James does not deserve the MVP this season... he's not even close. Early in the season I was really impressed by him, but he passes too much in crunch situations and has let too many teams come back on him while he did nothing. I'm starting to believe Carmello Anthony is the stud of that draft class, because he's unstoppable in close games and pressure situations.

I agree with the first part. James has gotten better at taking responsibility because he caught so much heat for it.

As for the second part, James is twice the player 'melo is and Wade is the stud of that class under pressure.

[Marklar MM]

^Wade is definitely the best player out of that class^

[ABDENOUR POWER]

I'm starting to believe Carmello Anthony is the stud of that draft class, because he's unstoppable in close games and pressure situations.

What about Dwyane Wade? That guy is unbelievably clutch. I might be wrong on this (I'm too lazy to do any real research) but I believe Wade scored his team's final 17 pts in the game where Miami beat Detroit. He is lights out in crunch time.

[Darrin]

My ballot has not changed since December:

1. Kobe Bryant - His game is well-rounded, and although it would be unprecedented because the best teams usually have the MVP on their roster, his numbers do justify the belief he's the best offensive player in the NBA.

2. Chauncey Billups - Forget the player - I tell you the 3rd pick in the draft will have a career year of 19, 9, and 4 for the best team in the NBA after already winning the Finals MVP. He'll hit all the big shots for a team that is poised for its 4th consecutive Conference Finals, and 3rd straight NBA Finals Appearance while having the best regular season in a 49-year-old franchise. Does that not sound like a legitimate MVP candidate? Then stop looking for the flash and remembering that he was traded 4 times, playing for 6 different teams. He is having a career-year and the Pistons have been the best team in the league that season. Tim Duncan in 2003, Shaquille O'Neal in 2000, Michael Jordan in 1996, and Larry Bird in 1986 - Billups is the best player on the best team, and that usually equals MVP.

3. Steve Nash - He's the best passer and penetrator in the game, but he's a manador on defense, and as brilliant as he's been, it wasn't worthy of being mentioned as a two-time MVP when Shaquille O'Neal hasn't even done that.

4. Elton Brand - There's a difference between the best player on the team and a great player in the league and being the difference between winning and losing. The best player can be in place and the team still lose. Brand is the lesson on that this season.

5. Dirk Nowitzki - An outside candidate who has put together his best season, but has fallen out of favor because of his disappearance down the stretch of the season.

December 16, 2005 - That's when I originally wrote up this list (albeit without the comments).

Wade and Shaq are 6 and 7.

[Darrin]

What about Dwyane Wade? That guy is unbelievably clutch. I might be wrong on this (I'm too lazy to do any real research) but I believe Wade scored his team's final 17 pts in the game where Miami beat Detroit. He is lights out in crunch time.

That's true. My favorite young guards in the league today are Dwyane Wade and Chris Paul. Both are unbelieveable. The first time I saw Wade hit a game-winner was in game one of that 2004 Hornets-Heat series. He drove down the lane, and through up a floater.

No one, not even Lebron or AI, scares me more with the ball in his hands when he's hot. Maybe Kobe.