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So the Israeli position. Not that I disagree with the emotion, but it's to the right of anything currently acceptable in American politics.
We won the cold war playing poker, not with "boots on the ground". The two places where we did place "boots on the ground" were Korea and Vietnam. Korea was a conventional war, and we got a tie. Vietnam was a guerilla war, and we couldn't nail the ers in 15 years. It was a loss, or at best a withdrawal to save face, followed by an over throw of the government. Nation-building doesn't work with cultures extremely different from our own.
So the Israeli position. Not that I disagree with the emotion, but it's to the right of anything currently acceptable in American politics.
Are you guys going to watch debate tonight?
The dumbass American public will once again be impressed by style over substance and the slick trial lawyer will make look like a . As long as the candidate looks composed like he is on Prozac, he wins the debate, according to the polls.
I suspect it will be 'Uncle ' or 'Grandpa Cheney' in effect tonight. He'll get in his digs, but he'll be affable enough. Mayberry will probably reference Halliburton about every 15 seconds.
....but too "soft" or "left" for Bushco, MB. They still think we can pacify the insurgancy. I think to even get a face saving withdrawal at this point will have a huge cost in US lives. I also don't see it happening any time soon.
I would definitely adopt the Israeli approach, vis a vis Iran. All we need is another NK, an immature, radical nation with nukes.
In the case of Hussein, if you don't know precisely what he has but given his demonstrated use of such weapons in the past, the assessment of his capability and desires from the world's leading intelligence agencies, and his demonstrated intransigence when it comes to cooperation with the weapons inspections, wouldn't he himself be a target?
What I'm thinking is that in the case of Hussein, he indeed was what needed to be removed. Taking him out and letting the country go to is something to the right of anything the current administration has advocated.
One thing about , he has a wry sense of humor and he can get in some zingers that will bring a chuckle to the viewers. Also that every 15 secs reference, you mean like Kerry mentioning his Viet Nam experience every 15 secs in the first debate???
Has anyone ever thought that maybe Husssein did not have weapons of mass destruction anymore because he had already sold them to terrorists? Perhaps?
No Jim, I hadn't. It makes no sense. He was a megalomaniac, and they don't cede or share power. Weapons are power.
Well, where did they go? He had them, he used them on the Kurds, he refused to comply with the inspectors...why would we think he no longer had them, otherwise? What choice did we have? The weapons are somewhere, they did not just evaporate into thin air.
The righties in the forum have been trying to pass off the Saddam sent his WMD's to Syria for months. However, the weakness in their theories is that Syria already possessed most of the same weapons, including the deadly VX, in their inventories, and the fact that chemical and biological weapons have a very limited shelf life.Has anyone ever thought that maybe Husssein did not have weapons of mass destruction anymore because he had already sold them to terrorists? Perhaps?
Well AHF, you and Ex are wrong...I think Democracy and Westernization can succeed over there for one major reason...
Because they ing invented it. These words we type, this language we speak, our written code of law, our music, our schools, our libraries...our democracy, our art..All were born right ing there where our soliders now fight suicide bombers and beheaders. That desert is the biblical garden of eden, that desert was the first irrigated land in the world. They are not so savage they don't grasp these concepts...these concepts came from their minds in the first place. That religion they practice was once the most enlightened religion in the world and the one you embraced if you valued science, art and learning. No wonder they call us arrogant.
Fanatacism does not go hand in hand with being an Arab or a Muslim, anymore than it goes hand in hand with being a Christian, Jew or a decendant of the Viking barbarians...or the decendant of the Aztecs and their love of human sacrifice.
Fanatacism goes hand in hand with ignorance, opression and poverty...attack those problems in the middle east(which we cannot do with despots running those countries) and you solve the fanatic problem...
Fanatacism goes hand in hand with distrust of foreigners who have come there to rape their lands...we wear this tag...but the truth is we are not the ones who have ever done that. We have never tried to conquer the middle east, we have never tried to loot it's riches for our own. We pay for our Oil. We pay more than anyone, we buy more than anyone. We are the source of their wealth, such as it is, now.
And Aggie I know it was France and Great Britain that were the last architects of the middle east...and I also know that they thought the Arabs were too savage to be Westernized... they were wrong...They(Europe) were arrogant aristocrats then and they still are to this day. They were not willing to get their hands dirty with these savages. We have succeeded at this before...they never have...because all the accusations you hear leveled at the US by these Muslim leaders...they were all true when Europe was involved in the middle east.
Europe to this day doesn't have a grasp of just how our Democracy works, they still have an aristocracy masquerading as a Democracy in most of the European countries...our Democracy is the most successful one in history..it's also the most real.
When we talk about freedom and equality, we mean it..we know what it is because we live it. European leaders don't have a clue...that's why they don't have the record of success that we do. That's why we don't need to be listenting to them about what's in our best interest. Europe has a disdain for our form of government, and the fact that the common people truly elect our leaders here is appaling to the leaders of Europe...that's really why they look down on us..They can't tell us how to do this because they have never done it themselves...We have.
The trick is to gain the trust of those you have beaten...We are trustworthy in this situation, there is a sincere desire here to end terrorism... we just have to get them to realize it...but fat hypocritical s like Michael Moore don't make it any easier.
Anyway, the Arabs are pussies compared to the Japanese who were the most feudal, determined, and disciplined society the world has ever seen. They were also patriarchial and misogynist...they were also willing to commit suidice to kill their enemies...they were willing to kill their women and children too(and not because they were trying to gain political sympathy) they were also much more advanced.
I've never met an Iranian, a Pakistani, an Arab...I've never met one I thought was too savage to join society. They are people just like us...they've just had wars being fought in their land since time began...and European influence and disregard for who was appointed rulers in their lands has made them more savage and fanatical than at any other time in their history.
Give real Democracy(the fascist American kind that forces freedom on people according to Dan) a chance in the middle east..and it will succeed.
Give peace a chance.
Actually, the Greeks did.I think Democracy and Westernization can succeed over there for one major reason...
Because they ing invented it.
The Tigris and Euphrates valley has been called the cradle of civilization, and for good reason. A lot of good things were invented there, writing, architecture, etc. Then came Islam. The Middle East went from being intellectually forward (inventing the concept of zero, without which computers would not exist) to behind the times in about five hundred years, and they've never caught up. Coincidence? I think not.
As for the Japanese, pulling them into the present took about 100 years, from Commodore Perry steaming into Edo (Tokyo) harbor in 1854, until post WWII reconstruction, with two Nukes thrown in for good measure. There were also no jetliners to drive into buildings back then, or we may have been talking about September 11, 1901.
I thought the Aztecs or the Maya civilization were the first to recognize the value of "absolute zero"?
But I don't know.
I'd always heard that it was the Arabs, but maybe they did it simultaniously in two hemispheres.
Actually it's been established since around 1980 that the earliest forms of democracy occured in Mesopotamia and predated even the kings of Mesopotamia. Theirs was a lot like ours originally...all free adult males were allowed to participate in governance. The Greeks did give it the name and added certain concepts like trial by jury...but the Mesopotamians beat the Greeks by a thousand years or so.
And Islam was a tool to unite the Arabs...it ing worked and then some. The Muslims and Islam were the most progressive culture on earth for many years...yeah it ran out of gas but it's still a younger religion(In it's current form, it's pagan form of being the worship of the moon god predates christianity and judaism, but Mohammed tweaked it and no one really connects it with paganism anymore) than either Christianity or Judaism and it's just now undergoing it's modernization like those religions had to do in the past.
Well it's not like we just discovered Muslims and the Middle East...this conflict has been going on for a few hundred years now. Like WW11 and the Japanese, this zit is now ready to pop.As for the Japanese, pulling them into the present took about 100 years, from Commodore Perry steaming into Edo (Tokyo) harbor in 1854, until post WWII reconstruction, with two Nukes thrown in for good measure. There were also no jetliners to drive into buildings back then, or we may have been talking about September 11, 1901.
Digging through old threads and wow, NBADan was pretty much on target. And given his current posting, I never would have expected Marcus Bryant to be for the war in Iraq.
Last edited by LnGrrrR; 12-13-2010 at 06:50 PM.
Reading through this, I can only say I'm grateful that the 00's are done with. Gotta say, though: it's a testament to the effectiveness of political advertising that Whott, Yoni, and others were actually serious about the idea that Kerry was the terrorist's choice and that electing him would bring about... the apocalypse?
We'll all laugh about Obama being a socialist and Palin being an American one day, but as contentious as the left/right bull is now, it has nothing on those paranoiac days.
"the 00's are done with"
They absolutely aren't done with.
The that Whott's people visited on the world is worse than ever with no sign of relenting.
What American "terrorist" would support re-electing a Mexican president who had invaded and occupied America over a opposition candidate?
Whott's American supremacist one-way-street exceptionalism was the odor that stunk up all his positions.
Last edited by boutons_deux; 12-14-2010 at 04:45 AM.
Some people were very wrong in this thread.
Whenever I'm wrong, our the perception is that I am wrong, It's usually because the truth just hasn't come around yet. In 2005, I predicted devastating Hurricanes would strike New Orleans and Galveston...more amazingly, almost all my predictions came true that year...
...One day, my su ions on 9/11 will come true too, just wait...
lol conscription in 05
Disagree there NBADan, but you called this one.
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