Hey, we are kicking iraqi terrorist ass, but Bush still sucks.
First off, and I know for a fact you could care less about my opinion, congratulations on at least toning down the usual you USED to spew. Youre still opinionated, but at least its constructive in a gtown sort of way.
Onwards and upwards...
I think you labeled me a liberal somewhere in there by "...[drinking] the koolaid from the democrats".
Far from it. Maybe its me, maybe its my opinions on certain issues. , I dont know what would make someone jump to conclusions like that. Doesnt make any sense to me. it.
My disgust stems not from my political stance (whether it be Demo, Repub, etc). It stems from my EYES. My agreement or disagreement with the actions of my country and its leaders, on a case-by-case basis.
I dont frequent CNN.com or FoxNews.com....I could get more unbiased opinions on the news from a hobo with a fifth of MD 20/20 than those two slanted, shabby piece o organizations.
Secondly, I dont buy all the boutons and Dan's of the world either. Both sides of any argument are just as guilty as the other. They cite some leftist news outlet, only to be counter-pointed by some rightist outlet.
Sometimes, actual constructive discourse happens when (gasp*) they have to think for themselves on an issue and dont have X number of opinionated articles to somehow further their agendas.
Back on topic,
No, I dont have to read accounts of a strategy I never agreed with in the first place. I dont have to corroborate my views with other like-minded individuals to feel assured that I fall on the “right” side of the issue.
What I think is never predicated on what other people think. But, sometimes my opinion happens to fall in line with the Demo / Repub agenda. Not by design or intention, but by pure coincidence.
I have hated the Middle East looooooong before 9/11. I knew that -stain of the world would sooner or later become a worldwide conflict.
I just didn’t agree with our reason for entry. I could list so many different ways we could have entered the region with a full-out assault of Biblical proportions if we had only been patient. Sweeping changes, with the backing of the Western world and some of the East, if only we hadn’t entered on such flimsy evidence and trumped up charges.
This Lone Ranger at ude of this administration bothers the living out of me. This administration’s arrogance and aloof mannerisms in the face of the people that question them makes me ing sick. I couldn’t care ing less if they were Demo / Repub / Green / etc. They answer to the people, yet they regularly spit on the faces of Congress, all with a smile and a snicker.
I cant stand arrogance, even from Americans. Yes, on this forum (and American forum) I would yell to the high heavens that America is the greatest country the world has ever seen. Any members here who are not American would most likely understand the sentiment because they chose to register on an American forum.
But I would tone that down BIG TIME if I were on an Argentine forum or a Mexican forum. Unless I wanted to be troll, which I don’t think I could ever do.
Anyway, Iraq is a ing mess. Don’t mince words or play Spin Room with me. It’s a ing disaster. Looking at it from a numbers standpoint, sure it looks great! Only 2,000 soldiers killed with an entire country out from under the foot of a gruesome dictator.
But there is a vacuum of power in that country. A country populated with a people who value their religion FAAAAAAR above logic and reason. America will setup a democracy as best as we possibly can (about 2 more years, then we will pull a majority of our men out). That government will last on its own… , my best guess….maybe a year (if that). Then one of a thousand of religious morons these idiots pin their hopes to, who promises prosperity for his people under the guidance of Ala, with a promise of revenge against [insert person/people to blame for their situation here] will lead a coup and overthrow everything we tried to accomplish overnight. Maybe not even a coup…has it ever been considered that the Iraqi people may democratically elect a known terrorist group much like Palestine did?
As long as Ala’s name is attached to an agenda / political, those people line up in droves.
Its disgusting. Same thing in Afghanistan. Everyone heard the story of that dude that converted to Christianity as was going to be killed for his faith. That’s a ing law there. This is the kind of “people” we are trying to change. To me, its impossible to change them. They don’t want to be! Its that simple. Lead a horse to water and all that .
So maybe I overreacted with the civil war bit. Youre right, its hard to tell one way or the other. With regime change, anything is possible. But don’t say these people wouldn’t elect a known enemy in a heartbeat if their priests (whatever they call em) told them to.
This is getting too long. Sorry about that. Point is, I am not blinded by any side. The “sides” in this country are just machinations of feeble minds unwilling to think for themselves. Thinking for yourself carries a large risk…sometimes, youre alone and wrong. But I can admit when I am wrong. I do almost everyday of my life.
I have always said, and I cant express how much I find it to be a truth.
History will remember Bush as a horrible domestic president. Nothing he can do will change that.
Where he has a chance to be revered is this Middle East situation. I don’t believe he can control what happens, but the events he has unilaterally set into motion can go two ways.
a) these people wake up and think for themselves and Democracy reigns supreme. This would be….world-changing to say the very least. For all his faults, Bush would at least have this GREAT accomplishment. He changed the mindset of the Middle East. That would be….HUGE. Absolutely amazing and worthy of all the praise that could be heaped. Ends always justify the means, imo.
b) this entire agenda is a complete failure, furthering the hatred to record levels of America in the region spawning a whole new generation of people that hate with a fervency not seen since the Russians went back to Berlin. A total and utter failure that would taint his Presidency as one of, if not the worst, in the history of this country.
That’s the way I see it. Blind loyalty is reserved for the military and ONLY the military. Everything else in life should be questioned at ALL times, especially leadership. Yes, I get the impression Vashner, Yoni and yourself are all very lockstep in everything this administration does, no matter how seedy or uncons utional. You see it as necessary, I will never see it that way.
But the ends always justify the means. Maybe youre right. I have my serious doubts. Time will tell. I think a whole lot sooner than anyone cares to admit.
^RACK
Your sorry butt is still functioning, on all cylinders, because he
has done what he has done in all areas. I would like to see some of your
"so called" environmentalist start walking to wherever they are going
on a daily basis to prove how sincere they are. But never mind, they
have good intentions.
Gee joe, you really agree with all he said? I doubt it.
So because environmentalists might be hypocrites, Bush is a good president?
Har, let me try some similar logic.
Because some cars might be painted green, I can run out in front of a semi-truck and not get hurt.
Both your statement and the above sentence have the same (il)logical structure.
Random, you dont expect him to make a logical argument now do you
I sure as don't.
Paint chips. As a kid.
Dark Reign is regulating this forum now, lol.
I think Dark Reign can go on with out your cheerleading endorsement.
There is no such thing as a props mod.
Yep, you got it okay. And it was/is logical. Your statement may needSo because environmentalists might be hypocrites, Bush is a good president?
Har, let me try some similar logic.
Because some cars might be painted green, I can run out in front of a semi-truck and not get hurt.
Both your statement and the above sentence have the same (il)logical structure.
a little work however. But that is normal for folks from your side. I have
no idea where you get your sense of logic. Bush has done a very
good job of taking care of all of us, including your sorry butt.
Xray, did you teach a class on logical fallacies?
the US media is absolutely atrocious. there are no unbiased sources anywhere here.
for instance:
i like the use of statistical evidence presented in the rolling stone article, but they discredit themselves with the use of bias.More than half the country now considers Bush dishonest and untrustworthy, and a decisive plurality consider him less trustworthy than his predecessor, Bill Clinton -- a figure still attacked by conservative zealots as "Slick Willie."
i suggest watching/reading from the bbc instead. politics is sheathed in so much double talk that its almost impossible to tell what the is going on...bbc is the best ive found that just delivers facts, and no agenda.
I am not saying that casualties should have been higher, dipweed.
I AM saying that Iraq is far from the nirvana that the administration would have us believe, AND that claims that things are "getting better" would imply that the rolling average in the graph should go down and stay down.
I AM saying, and have always said, that even the 2000 number is higher than it should have been, had the post war planning been done by anyone halfway competant, instead of the political hacks that did the planning.
This adminstration has taken a page out of the Hoover administration: "prosperity is just around the corner". I was hollow bull then and it's hollow bull now.
Yep, you got it okay. And it was/is logical. Your statement may need
a little work however. But that is normal for folks from your side. I have
no idea where you get your sense of logic. Bush has done a very
good job of taking care of all of us, including your sorry butt.
Your statement didn't have any basis in logic or fact.
I really wish I could just beam a little bit of education into your brain, so that you could see that for yourself, but as it is, you are too lazy to try and improve your critical thinking skills at this late juncture of your life.
It is easier for you to think that *I* don't know what I am talking about than to actually (GASP) READ and learn something new. Lazy.
Sometimes, it just cant be put better than anyone else. Thus, the quoting feature.
Random didnt say anything profound. When the administration says all the good stuff about iraq, it's because his opponents are saying the extreme opposite. Bush only reacts.
Please stop comparing this war to WWII. It makes you look ignorant.
DR, I have a new level of respect for you. A pitty we cannot see eye to eye on religion.
Don't worry, he has said the same to me. Whoever does not agree with gtown's narrow view of life, is a liberal.I think you labeled me a liberal somewhere in there by
And although I'm pro-business, pro-life, against legalizing hard drugs, etc, he has also labeled me a liberal.
No, but guess I may have to teach one on logical thinking on this forum. It is just really hard talking
to a bunch of pseudo intellects like you and others who have no idea of what is going on in
this world. But I shall continue to try.
Warning: Retiree--knows it all and has plenty of time to tell you about it.
I do agree with you about one side REACTING to the other in this case.
I also understand the President would put his party in serious jeopardy this November if for some reason he (how to put this?)....backtracked a little on his adamant posturing on Iraq.
I never doubted GWB's resolve. He has that in spades (tell me I wasnt the only one who thought Gore would have looked like an idiot on 9/11). But his 'swagger' is his greatest asset and liability, a rare occurence.
His 'swagger' (and political clout and party majority) earned him the power to have Congress vote on entering Iraq based on (how to put this?)...cir stantial evidence.
His 'swagger' and grandstanding on the Iraq situation at that time has also more or less backed him into a corner on being rational about expectations and accomplishments.
Like I said, there are 2 very vague possible outcomes with a third outcome I dont find to be reasonable. Our unwavering occupation of Iraq, which cant happen if the Republican party wishes to carry seats in November and beyond. 2000 deaths isnt much, I can admit that. But the reality is that number will never go down, it will continue to grow, the public's view of the situation is only getting worse, there arent any forseeable goals to 'boost' popularity in believable timeframes (capture Sadaam, quell insurgency, etc). All of these things add up to problems for this Administration and even more resounding damage to the Republican Party's majority seats in Congress which the President has used to his advantage since he entered office.
If the Republican party loses its majority this November, I dont know if the President could execute any plan on any situation for the remainder of his term. He would be disarmed. He knows it, thus this psuedo-shuffling of his cabinet in the hopes of showing his willingness to change.
These Democrats are chomping at the bit for revenge. They want redemption for being stepped on and over for 6 years. If they get majority seats, every Bill, every action, every misconduct will be scrutinzed to the fullest extent of Congress' power.
Do I like that? no. It doesnt accomplish anything except some petty agenda of "I told ya so". One would think the federal government is above such things, but alas, it isnt.
Of course, Republicans could win November and everything stays to the status quo. I dont think that is going to happen, but I didnt think Bush won in 2002 either. So much for prognostication.
Either way, its still a serious problem for this country. I didnt even touch on domestic issues. If they lose a majority, every Democrat in both Houses will be in lock-step, can the Republicans say the same? Already some moderate conservatives are flip-flopping on whether to support or not. Heck, its no secret some Republicans dont even want the President on their campaign trail.
Time will tell as usual.
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