Bush Orders Probe Into Gas Price Cheating By NEDRA PICKLER,

[scott]

I'm not crying about that. I actually think dubya's fake investigation is total bull that will accomplish nothing, just as intended. dubya's lip-service as he sucks off the oilco's.

Dubya's investigation is total bull , and you are right, it will accomplish nothing because there is nothing to accomplish. He's playing politics and pandering to the public as a run-up to the election, just like the Democrats have been in doing in their calls for such an investigation.

I don't think the oilco's are price gouging, nor that they should taxed or penalized in any way for their obscene profits.

The oilco's are supplying an addiction, just like illegal drug businessmen. Like any effective cartel, they will restrict supply to push up the prices, with help from non-market influences like dubya/ head starting a phone war in a critcal oil region

So you don't think the Oil Companies are price gouging, they are just violating anti-trust law by colluding with one another? Glad you set that straight.

The US electorate and the political system simply don't have the wisdom and willpower to produce politicians that will truly lead the USA in the right direction.

You, the rest of the "Bush says the sky is blue so here's my article saying it's red" crowd and the blind Dubya supporters in this forum are proof of that.

Scott, kiss my ass, your stereo-typicial right-wing dumb .

I love it, I can be accused of being a stereo-typical right-ring dumb and a flaming liberal socialist pig in the same forum. I guess we can't all be as enlightened enough to post "dubya/ head" in all of our posts while flipping flopping back and forth from one side of an issue to another.

There is a reason you are a joke on this forum, and it isn't your sense of humor.

[boutons_]

Americans are spoiled rotten with their cheap gas.

They don't have the balls to face up the enormous challenge of switching away from expensive, vanishing oil.

Now, with China and India beginning to ramp their thirst for oil for their 2B+ people, the US is ed.

====================================

As Gas Nears $7 a Gallon, More Britons Take the Bus

By Kevin Sullivan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, April 28, 2006; A12

LONDON, April 27 -- David Graham pulled up to the gas pump in his shiny black sport-utility vehicle with a "for sale" sign taped in the window.

Graham, 48, a London building contractor, pointed at the price on the pump -- the equivalent of $6.62 a gallon, which means it costs him $125 to fill his tank. "That's why this is for sale," Graham said. "I can't afford it anymore. I have to walk everywhere. Things have gone mad."

As Americans contemplate the misery of a summer of $3-per-gallon gas, drivers in Britain and much of continental Europe look on with resigned envy. High taxes long ago created some of the world's most expensive gasoline on this side of the Atlantic, where a family car is deemed more a luxury than a necessity and many people rely instead on extensive public transportation networks.

But even in Europe, where consumers are used to paying pump prices double, or more, what Americans pay, there is growing alarm over the effect of rising crude oil prices on fuel costs.

Many motorists are driving less and altering the way they shop, take vacations and carry out other routines, according to interviews and opinion polls. Many airlines, delivery services and other fuel-dependent businesses are either passing increases on to consumers through higher prices or taking deep profit cuts.

Andris Piebalgs, the European Union's energy commissioner, warned last weekend that high oil prices were "destroying economic growth" in Europe.

Kate Gibbs of Britain's Road Haulage Association, which represents truckers and trucking companies, said the prices were driving many small trucking companies out of business. "They just can't take it anymore," Gibbs said.

Uncertainty about the West's growing confrontation with Iran, the world's fourth-largest oil supplier, instability in major producers such as Nigeria and Iraq, continued fallout from Hurricane Katrina, and growing demand for oil in China and India are among the reasons analysts cite for the worldwide surge in pump prices.

Drivers in 11 European countries are now paying an average of more than $6 a gallon for gasoline, according to Britain's AA Motoring Trust. "We have always looked upon you Americans with a lot of envy" about gas prices, said David Williams of the trust, an independent research group that advocates for British motorists.

European governments have long used gasoline taxes not only as an important source of revenue, but as a policy tool to drive down oil consumption and reduce pollution.

Williams said taxes account for about 66 percent of the pump price in Britain -- so of the current average price per gallon of $6.48, about $4.27 goes to the government.

U.S. drivers pay an average of about 46 cents per gallon in combined state, federal and local taxes, according to the Tax Foundation, an independent organization in Washington.

"We would like to see zero fuel duties, of course," Williams said. "But we have to put our hands on our hearts and admit that the government needs money for all kinds of things, and this is one way to get it. People do want their schools and hospitals to be better, so this is just practical politics."

( and it's better to put fuel taxes on lower volumes of fuel into the hands of the govt rather than consume cheap fuel and export for money to the oil producers. Yes, the USA gets some of the petro-dollars back in investments, but the USA doesn't own those petro-dollars. and how much of America is good to sell for Muslim petro-dollars? )

Six years ago, when government taxes represented an even larger share of fuel costs, truckers, taxi drivers and other protesters blockaded Britain's oil refineries and storage depots to stop delivery to gas stations. The weeklong strike nearly paralyzed the country.

British government officials said that in an effort to help consumers, they had frozen the primary tax on gasoline since 2003. It has remained at 47.1 pence per liter -- about $3.17 per gallon at today's exchange rates. On top of that duty, consumers also pay a 17.5 percent consumption tax.

In his 2006 budget, announced last month, Gordon Brown, Britain's finance minister, continued the freeze until at least September.

"The government doesn't believe in temporary measures," said a Treasury spokesman, speaking on condition of anonymity following standard practice here. "As soon as you start making decisions based on short-term fluctuations in the market, you take yourself out of a stable situation."

( ... compare that policy with the short-term idiotic, demagogic pandering in Wash DC this week.)

In the Netherlands, gas is selling for about $6.16 per gallon, which includes $3.10 in duty and 19 percent sales tax, said Jelle Wils, spokesman for the Ministry of Economic Affairs. Wils said the government had held "heavy discussions" about tax cuts and other relief measures for consumers but decided not to interfere with market forces.

"We cannot do anything about these prices because they are market prices," Wils said.

But consumer anger is clearly growing. "It's extortion, " said Alan Pirrie, 54, an industrial cleaner who lives near Coventry and drives 100 miles to London and 100 miles home six days a week -- 1,200 miles a week.

( ... made possible only by cheap fuel, now impossible by expensive fuel)

Pirrie said it costs him almost $120 to fill the tank of his small Fiat van, and he has to fill up three times a week. "Of course they should cut the tax, but there's no chance," said Pirrie, who said he and other drivers expected prices to continue rising. "It's life."

The average gasoline price in Britain has risen 19 percent since January 2005. Many stations are charging well above the $6.48 national average; at least one in London's chic Chelsea neighborhood was charging nearly $8 a gallon last weekend.

"It's disgusting," said Elizabeth Jones, 50, a pharmacy assistant, who was pumping $40 worth of gas -- for half a tank -- into her little Ford Fiesta in a working-class neighborhood in west London.

Jones said she now takes the bus to the grocery store instead of driving. She and her husband sold their second car because they couldn't afford to fill two tanks.

Alan Skitt, driving a small Renault Kangaroo van in Poplar, a modest neighborhood in London's East End, called the price increases "awful." He blamed President Bush, contending that the Iraq war had contributed significantly to the volatility in the price of oil.

"It's mad, isn't it?" said Heidi Alley, who was driving her compact Ford in Poplar. She said 10 pounds -- about $18 -- worth of gasoline used to last her four days, but now lasts only three. "I've got to run round with the kids. Either you pay it or you're walking."

Special correspondent Alexandra Topping contributed to this report.

© 2006 The Washington Post Company

[xrayzebra]

^^boutons, the Europeans have always had their transportation system. Until
recently, within the past 15-20 year span, they didn't own cars. Now the
article is completely screwed up. Most cars there are tin cans with lawn mower
engines. You have a hard time fitting four people inside, in many cases two. And
trying to find a place to park is almost an impossibility. Other than there highway
system, built in recent years, their city streets are narrow little things. They
park on the sidewalks and in their yards. Their gas had always cost an arm and
leg because of their really high taxes.

[Yonivore]

scott. From where does the money come to pay corporate taxes?

I'm not sure relating taxes to profits is very illuminating. In fact, if the corporation paid no taxes -- profits would have probably been the same due to the absence of that obligation and its affect on the cost of doing business.

Its not like taxes are paid out of profits...in fact, taxes are factored into something the corporation can control; product prices (raising them), product quality (spending less on component and cons uent ingredients by buying substandard), employee wages (lowering them), etc...

[Yonivore]

Here, let Thomas Sowell give you all an economics lesson:

scott. I belive he stated your premise fairly succinctly; "What something cost is history, what it is worth now is economics."

Oily politicians: Part II
By Thomas Sowell

Apr 28, 2006

One of the beauties of an economy coordinated by price movements is that nobody has to understand it in order for it to work.

If vast new iron ore deposits are discovered tomorrow in Timbuktu, 99 percent of the people on this planet may be wholly unaware of it -- and yet the prices of everything from paper clips to automobiles would begin to decline, from Singapore to Seattle. Moreover, people around the world would adjust their behavior in response to this event that they know nothing about.

Many people who were not sure about buying a new car might decide that they could now afford one at the new lower prices. People who were thinking of buying wooden desks could begin to reconsider, when they discovered that steel desks had become much cheaper than they expected.

In short, the whole world would adjust their economic behavior in response to a discovery that most people were wholly unaware of.

This economic benefit of price-coordinated markets is also its biggest political vulnerability. If people don't understand what is happening, politicians can tell them anything -- and get their support to take actions that look good, even when the consequences will be counterproductive.

Political responses to the current high price of gasoline are a classic example. World demand for oil has risen out of all proportion to the amount of oil supplied. That is the problem and prices are a symptom of that problem.

Politicians have long been known for seizing upon immediate symptoms and ignoring underlying causes and consequences. Back in the 18th century Adam Smith wrote of "that crafty animal" the politician, who is preoccupied with "the momentary fluctuation of affairs."

Politicians are still crafty in the 21st century and still have their eyes on fleeting opportunities to make political hay. The high price of gasoline is the opportunity du jour.

Nothing is easier than to blame high prices on whoever charges those high prices, regardless of what the underlying cause is. It doesn't matter whether you are talking about Big Oil or little stores in poor, high-crime neighborhoods that charge higher prices growing out of the economic consequences of poverty and crime.

In these and other cases, the economics behind the high prices is of far less interest politically than denouncing the sellers for "greed," "exploitation," "gouging" and the whole political vocabulary of undefined rhetoric and unsubstantiated notions.

Much is made of the fact that gasoline prices go up before the higher priced oil is turned into gasoline. What something cost is history, what it is worth now is economics.

Back during the first Gulf War, a speculator bought oil in Venezuela and had it shipped to the United States, in order to profit from the high oil prices brought on by the war. But, by the time his oil tanker reached the United States, the war was over and prices had fallen so much that he couldn't sell his oil for enough to cover his costs.

What his oil cost him was history. What it was worth now was economics.

Price movements up or down provide incentives for people to consume less or to consume more -- and to produce more or produce less. From the standpoint of the economy as a whole, the history of any particular batch of oil is irrelevant.

Prices need to ration all oil according to existing supply and demand. At the same time, prices need to provide incentives to produce more oil or less oil, according to the same supply and demand conditions.

"Windfall" profits and windfall losses are all part of the same adjustment process. If politicians seize the windfall profits and leave windfall losses alone, what that means over a cycle of years is that the average rate of return on oil production falls below what is needed to attract the investments that greater oil exploration and production require.

This is not a matter of economic theory. It is a matter of history do enting thousands of years of politically controlled prices. Significantly, those who are making the most noise about gasoline price today have the least interest in that history.

No, I haven't read Part I so I don't know on what he's following up.

[scott]

scott. From where does the money come to pay corporate taxes?

I'm not sure relating taxes to profits is very illuminating. In fact, if the corporation paid no taxes -- profits would have probably been the same due to the absence of that obligation and its affect on the cost of doing business.

Its not like taxes are paid out of profits...in fact, taxes are factored into something the corporation can control; product prices (raising them), product quality (spending less on component and cons uent ingredients by buying substandard), employee wages (lowering them), etc...

The passing on of the cost of taxes to the customer is the point. (And there are demand effects to these higher prices, but no supply effects... a distortion of the free market) One reason the tax payments in relation to profits is important is because of Congress's recent decision to call for an audit of the top 15 oil companies' tax returns. Maybe they need a reminder of how much oil companies mean to their precious programs.

As for product quality being inversely correlated to taxes... I'm not buying that.

[scott]

What something cost is history, what it is worth now is economics.

Great line, thanks.

[boutons_]

[boutons_]

April 30, 2006

Bush Aide: No Silver Bullet for Gas Prices

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 12:24 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush's new chief of staff said Sunday that the White House plan to address high gasoline prices will have only a modest impact and the ultimate goal must to be reducing dependence on foreign oil.

( no, you oil company flunky. The ultimate goal is engineering oil out of the US economy altogether. )

''This is a very large problem,'' Josh Bolten said on ''Fox News Sunday'' in his first interview since taking over April 14 as Bush's top aide. ''It's built up over many years -- decades, in fact. It's not going to be solved in the short run by some silver bullet.''

Administration officials, on the Sunday talk shows, drove home the importance of reducing U.S. consumption of foreign oil. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called it a ''trap'' and Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman acknowledged that rising gas prices had become a crisis. But he suggested that finding short-term fixes to soothe consumers angered by pump prices topping $3 per gallon might be difficult.

''The suppliers have lost control of the market. Demand exceeds supply,'' Bodman said, citing demand worldwide from China, Indian and other growing economies. ''Clearly, we're going to have a number of years -- two to three years -- before suppliers are in a position to meet the needs of demands.''

Rice left the impression that the president is not going to take action against oil-producing nations for high prices through the World Trade Organization, as some lawmakers have urged. She said the United States is encouraging oil-rich countries to increase production, but the long-term solution is to diversify sources of energy.

''We need to deal with the long-term problems of technologies that may get us out of this trap,'' Rice said on ABC's ''This Week.'' ''But I can tell you that if anything has surprised me as secretary of state, it is the degree to which the kind of search for hydrocarbons is distorting international politics. That means that the quicker we get about the business of reducing our reliance on oil, the better we're going to be.''

( ... you dummy, That's been true since you were in gradeschool)
Bolten said he didn't know how much the president's plan would lower the price of a gallon gas. ''I expect the effects would be relatively modest,'' he said on NBC's ''Meet the Press.''

''All of those policies need to come together because we need to leave behind a legacy in which this country is headed toward weaning itself from its dependence on foreign oil,'' he said. ''We've been going in the wrong direction for years, for decades.''

Bush said last week that he wants Congress to give him the power to raise fuel efficiency standards for cars. The fleet average of 27.5 miles per gallon has not changed for two decades.

Bolten said the president does not have a specific increase in mind and the transportation secretary would take time to figure it out. Bolten said Bush does not just want to raise the standard, but change it so that it is based on vehicle weight and size.

Bodman reiterated his opposition to imposing a tax on oil companies if they make excessive profits. When tried several years ago, the windfall tax ''did not work. It resulted in decreased production,'' Bodman said.

Red Cavaney, president of the American Petroleum Ins ute, defended his industry's profits, saying U.S. companies have consolidated over the years to compete with the growing size of foreign oil companies. U.S. oil company profits ''typically come close to industry average,'' he said.

He also said the unrest in Iraq has exacerbated the situation by disrupting oil production.

''As soon as you can stabilize the civil situation, they'll significantly be able to ramp up production. But it would take years,'' Cavaney said.

Bodman agreed. ''As we see Iraqi security forces gradually take control, we'll see improvements,'' he said.

Another oil industry lobbyist, former Sen. Bennett Johnston of Louisiana, said ''saber rattling'' on Iran is contributing to the high cost of crude oil. ''We'd see gasoline prices above $5 or $6; crude oil above $100 if we bomb Iran,'' he said on ABC's ''This Week.''

Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, said on CBS' ''Face the Nation'' that the U.S. must start looking at increasing domestic supply such as ''sensible drilling.'' Rolling back gas taxes or handing out $100 rebates, as Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has proposed, might soothe consumers this summer but not in the long run, she said.

''There's a lot of finger-pointing and blaming that's going on right now,'' said Murkowski, a member of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. ''What we're faced with are the laws of supply and demand, and Congress isn't going to be able to repeal the laws of supply and demand.''

But Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., said the U.S. cannot assume it can ''drill our way out'' but should renew efforts on boosting compe ion and creating an alternative fuel market. ''We need a strong law in place to protect consumers today.''


Copyright 2006 The Associated Press

[boutons_]

April 30, 2006

No Evidence of Pump Price Profiteering: Bodman

By REUTERS

Filed at 12:19 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration sees no direct evidence of profiteering by big U.S. oil companies and is doing all it can to tame near-record prices, U.S. Energy Secretary Sam Bodman said on Sunday.

With average U.S. gasoline pump prices near $3 a gallon and politicians clamoring to rein in record oil industry profits, President George W. Bush is trying to stave off a potential election-year problem for Republicans eager to hang on to control of the U.S. Congress.

Asked on NBC's ``Meet the Press'' if oil companies are exploiting consumers, Bodman said ``we see no evidence of it, but this is one of those situations where I guess I would call it 'trust but verify.'''

Bodman pointed to an ongoing probe by the Justice Department and Federal Trade Commission into gasoline prices.

Bush last week unveiled a string of actions to tame energy prices, including suspending filling the U.S. emergency crude oil stockpile and taking a closer look at environmental rules that have limited gasoline supplies.

``This administration is doing everything it can do'' Bodman said.

U.S. Senate Republicans last week unveiled their proposal to soften the gasoline price blow by giving taxpayers a $100 check and suspending an 18.4 cent-per-gallon federal tax.

Some Democrats and at least one Republican, Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter, have said the government should tax ''windfall'' industry profits.

Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM.N) in January reported U.S.-record profits of $36 billion over the past year. Many Americans were stunned by the size of the $400 million retirement package for former Exxon chief Lee Raymond. The company also last week reported an $8.4 billion profit for the first three months of 2006, its biggest first-quarter profit ever.

``If you do not tax these corporations ... they will continue to run up the profits to sky heavens,'' said Sen. Richard Durbin, the No. 2 Senate Democrat.

Bodman reiterated that such a tax is a bad idea because it could spur the industry to produce less oil to avoid paying, which happened when such taxes were last enacted in the 1970s.

``That was tried 30 years ago -- it did not work,'' Bodman said. ``That proposal does not hold water.''

Separately, the head of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said on Friday he will head a task force of state governors to simplify ``boutique fuel'' rules that can exacerbate fuel shortages , and will soon cap the number of blends to comply with energy legislation signed last year.

Copyright 2006 Reuters Ltd.