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  1. #51
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    That's interesting. Thanks for the info.

    I'll just pray for the victim. Hopefully the justice system comes thru and punishes the criminals rightfully.
    Your welcome.

    The one with the Hitler dob tattoo was in court today.
    Last edited by SA210; 04-28-2006 at 12:41 AM.

  2. #52
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Attackers are white supremacist skinheads

    Details of brutal pipe assault emerge
    Teenager clings to life as case laced with ethnic undertones grabs national notice


    By MIKE GLENN and PEGGY O'HARE
    Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

    The brutalized teen was a popular student and high school football player in Spring once featured in a fashion layout in the school's yearbook.

    Two older teens accused of attacking him were described by other youths as troublemakers and "skinheads."

    In a case that's garnering national attention, a 16-year-old clings to life at Memorial Hermann Hospital while the other two are in the Harris County Jail — charged with aggravated sexual assault after prosecutors accused them of sodomizing him with a pipe because they think he tried to kiss a 12-year-old girl.

    "How do you muster up that much hatred?" asked Carolyn Cook, the mother of one of the victim's friends.

    The brutal night began about 11:30 p.m. Saturday when the 16-year-old went to a party at a home in the 21300 block of Glenbranch. Investigators don't know how many people were there but said the group included David Henry Tuck, 18, of the 3400 block of Nutwood, and Keith Robert Turner, 17, of the 21000 block of Star Grass.

    Incensed at the teen because of the girl, Tuck and Turner dragged him in the back yard and began beating him, detectives said.

    "They stomped his head with their boots," said Harris County Sheriff's Lt. John Denholm. "They stripped him naked and sodomized him with the PVC pipe used to hold up a patio umbrella."

    Tuck then kicked the pipe, causing even further damage, prosecutors said at a Thursday morning hearing.

    "I don't mean just a little bit," Harris County prosecutor Mike Trent told District Judge Michael McSpadden. "He kicked it in and shoved it so far in that he has caused major internal injuries and organ damage." Tuck wore steel-toed boots when he attacked the teen and kicked him in the head, Trent said.

    The attackers slashed his chest with a knife and hurled ethnic slurs at the teen, who is Hispanic. Then they apparently tried to cover up the crime, authorities said. "They poured bleach on his body to destroy any evidence," Denholm said.

    He was left for dead in the yard for 10 hours before help was called.

    Steven Bullock saw his friend Thursday at Memorial Hermann Hospital. The teen was unconscious, his chest marked from the knife attack.

    "I was standing next to his bed. He didn't look good," Bullock said. "It was worse than I expected."

    He remains in extremely critical condition, prosecutors said, and may not survive.

    The attack stunned students at Klein Collins High School, which the younger teen once attended before transferring.

    "Everyone is praying and hoping that he gets better. He's a good friend," said David Cook, a former football teammate. "Nobody is going to be the same after this. It's all going to be different."

    A Web profile of the teen on MySpace shows pictures of the smiling student with his friends. It lists his interests — not unlike those of others his age — such as Houston Rockets star Tracy McGrady and favorite musicians. Outraged friends left messages, including one that read: "God is watching over you and he knows as well as i that you are too strong to let this overcome you. I hope to see you real soon."

    Cook called his friend "a cool kid" who liked nothing better than cracking jokes with his buddies: "I don't see how that could happen to somebody I knew. He's a good friend of mine."

    Cook said he has known Turner for several years and doesn't understand how he could have been involved in such an act.

    "He was always one of my best friends. I never thought he could do something like this," Cook said.

    Turner's alleged involvement in the attack also baffled Cook's mother.

    "David Tuck is more well-known for having a rougher reputation," Carolyn Cook said. "(Turner) has a reputation of being more of a follower."

    Bullock said he has heard Tuck use slurs.

    The victim probably would not have gone to the party had he known the two also would be there, David Cook said.

    "Everybody has heard about David (Tuck)," David Cook said. "Everybody knows him as a skinhead around here."

    Cook said he has seen Nazi swastikas painted on the fence at Tuck's house. "It sounds like something you would see in a movie, but it's all real," he said.

    Several people who live in Tuck's subdivision portrayed Tuck as a boy who had been violent and troubled since he was young and had long exhibited a fascination with neo-Nazis.

    Jason Savage, 17, and Tommy Peterson, both Klein Collins sop res, said Tuck paraded around the subdivision with a flag of a swastika on Martin Luther King Day.

    Richard Rogers, who lives next door to the family, answered his door Thursday night with a .357-caliber Magnum in his hand. He said he was carrying it because he was concerned that Tuck would be out on bail.

    "The kid is a white supremacist," Rogers said.

    More details about the attack surfaced Thursday as Tuck appeared in court to answer the aggravated sexual assault charge. Although his bail had been set at $20,000, McSpadden ordered him held without bail. Turner, also charged with aggravated sexual assault, is jailed in lieu of $100,000 bail.

    Prosecutors revealed that a third person, a juvenile, may have participated in the assault. That boy is being treated only as a witness and will not be charged, prosecutors said.

    Prosecutors will not pursue the incident as a hate crime — because that would not enhance the first-degree felony charges or penalty possibilities — but said evidence of an ethnic motivation will be presented to jurors to consider if and when they weigh punishment, Trent said. Tuck and Turner are white.

    The suspects admitted involvement in the attack, but "they're pointing fingers at each other as to who did what," Trent told the judge.

    Defense attorney Chuck Hinton, appointed to represent Tuck, declined to comment. Trent said the charges will be upgraded to capital murder if the victim dies.

    Family members of the teen, Tuck and Turner could not be reached for comment.

    Bill Murphy, Zeke Minaya and Kimberly Stauffer contributed to this report

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Vermin like this are crawling all over East Texas.

  3. #53
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    Exactly what I was thinking when I read the article. To me, I could understand someone getting pissed if a 16-year-old tried to kiss their 12-year-old sister. That is just gross. Of course the 16-year-old didn't deserve getting Ray Allened, but trying to kiss a 12-year-old wasn't the brightest move on his part.

    Plus, like Spurmintor said, I believe that the racial aspect is overplayed. They didn't attack him because he was "Hispanic", they attacked him because he tried to kiss the 12-year-old (alledgedly, of course). I believe they started throwing some slurs at him, but that shouldn't even register as part of the story. The rest of what they did to the kid was bad enough, calling him a or whatever when they were doing it shouldn't even be part of the story and I don't believe it was a hate crime.
    you're telling me they forced a lead pipe up his ass simply because he tried to kiss a 12 year old??? are you joking? There was MOST definately hate on behalf of those two low lives and it sure as isn't just about a freaking kiss.

    Look, it doesn't say anywhere that the 12 year old was their sister, so I don't know where you get that. You don't think its a hate crime, fine, but don't come up with hypothetical scenarios, stick to the facts.

    If you think them calling the guy racial insults while they were ass raping him with a pipe has more to do with a 12 year old girl being kissed than it has with racial hatred I really don't know what you are thinking.

    Hate crime normally means you commit the crime against someone because of their race (ethnicity, sexual orientation). It doesn't mean that you happen to call them racial slurs while you are beating them up. So unless these two have some sort of history of hating Hispanics, then this probably cannot be categorized as a hate crime. Because it doesn't seem like they did this because of his race.

    Anyway, this is horrible. I'd like them to get the stiffest penalty possible if/when convicted.
    are you serious? what else would you say was the reason??

    EDIT: in light of Extra Stout's article and other evidence it is certain it was a hate crime, but I don't understand how anyone could think it wasn't right from the get go.

  4. #54
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    i've been lurking for a while but finally decided to post cause i had some time to waste. now obviously these kids are pretty messed up and this may or may not be a hate crime based on the definition and the hispanic kid did not deserve any of this, but if you can put that all aside, i don't know if the victim didn't have something going on either. what kind of sixteen year old digs on 12 year olds? isn't that like a sop re in high school and a sixth grader? there is a 99.99999 percent chance she still looks like a little girl and hasn't finished puberty. i don't know about the rest of the fellas on this forum, but when i was sixteen i was thinking about hitting skins and if i saw one of my classmates trying to kiss on a sixth grader i would've thought it was pretty messed up. now if any of the that is true about him trying to kiss her and not just something they made up, he didn't deserved to get ass raped or beat to an inch of his life, but he did deserve to get his ass whipped like a normal human being. just my thought

  5. #55
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    i've been lurking for a while but finally decided to post cause i had some time to waste. now obviously these kids are pretty messed up and this may or may not be a hate crime based on the definition and the hispanic kid did not deserve any of this, but if you can put that all aside, i don't know if the victim didn't have something going on either. what kind of sixteen year old digs on 12 year olds? isn't that like a sop re in high school and a sixth grader? there is a 99.99999 percent chance she still looks like a little girl and hasn't finished puberty. i don't know about the rest of the fellas on this forum, but when i was sixteen i was thinking about hitting skins and if i saw one of my classmates trying to kiss on a sixth grader i would've thought it was pretty messed up. now if any of the that is true about him trying to kiss her and not just something they made up, he didn't deserved to get ass raped or beat to an inch of his life, but he did deserve to get his ass whipped like a normal human being. just my thought
    Dude, when I was 15, I went out with girls that were 14 or 13. What is the big deal?? Do I deserve to get beaten up!?? I think you are full of ! Its not like we're talking about a 20 year old taking advantage of a little girl. This is a 3 year difference!

    Besides I've known 13 year old girls that look like they are 15 or older, its not about the age or how the look. It was just a ing kiss, and you are advocating the guy deserved getting beat up!??

  6. #56
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    i don't know, there is a big difference between a 14 and 12 year old. even a 13 and 12 year old. it's called puberty. people change you know during that time period to look older. 4 years is such a huge difference when you're that young. i worked with kids for the past year and the difference between a sixt grader and 10 grader is astronomical. i'm just saying if i was that young and immature, saw this dude trying to get with the sixth grader, i'm not saying i'd beat him up, but if it happened then i'd understand. to answer your question, i have no problem with a 15 and 13 year old, but there reaches a point where it's not right. all that being said, this is making a crazy judgement on the dude from a little article, and obviously the other kids are definitely sick

  7. #57
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Attackers are white supremacist skinheads

    Two older teens accused of attacking him were described by other youths as troublemakers and "skinheads."

    Hey T Park, I think your's and timvp's theory that it was age related might be true, let's read on.

    sodomizing him with a pipe because they think he tried to kiss a 12-year-old girl.

    "How do you muster up that much hatred?" asked Carolyn Cook, the mother of one of the victim's friends.
    Well, we now know that it wasn't their sister, or maybe we knew that from the 1st article.

    I mean since the article states it was racism, why not pull other theories out of nowhere and disregard the facts. Maybe I should claim that maybe they poured bleach on him because the kid needed to be whiter in their opinion?

    Since your theories shouldn't be far fetched, then why should that one, right?

    .
    "They stomped his head with their boots," said Harris County Sheriff's Lt. John Denholm. "They stripped him naked and sodomized him with the PVC pipe used to hold up a patio umbrella."

    Tuck then kicked the pipe, causing even further damage, prosecutors said at a Thursday morning hearing.

    "I don't mean just a little bit," Harris County prosecutor Mike Trent told District Judge Michael McSpadden. "He kicked it in and shoved it so far in that he has caused major internal injuries and organ damage." Tuck wore steel-toed boots when he attacked the teen and kicked him in the head, Trent said.
    I really wish I were there.

    The attackers slashed his chest with a knife and hurled ethnic slurs at the teen, who is Hispanic. Then they apparently tried to cover up the crime, authorities said. "They poured bleach on his body to destroy any evidence," Denholm said. He was left for dead in the yard for 10 hours before help was called.
    Steven Bullock saw his friend Thursday at Memorial Hermann Hospital. The teen was unconscious, his chest marked from the knife attack.
    "I was standing next to his bed. He didn't look good," Bullock said. "It was worse than I expected."
    He remains in extremely critical condition, prosecutors said, and may not survive.
    Darn, all cuz of age? All the time they took and hate they had to attack him with a knife, kick the pipe in, pour bleach on him, using racial slurs. That's pretty bad.


    "Everybody knows him as a skinhead around here."

    Cook said he has seen Nazi swastikas painted on the fence at Tuck's house. "It sounds like something you would see in a movie, but it's all real," he said.

    Several people who live in Tuck's subdivision portrayed Tuck as a boy who had been violent and troubled since he was young and had long exhibited a fascination with neo-Nazis.

    Jason Savage, 17, and Tommy Peterson, both Klein Collins sop res, said Tuck paraded around the subdivision with a flag of a swastika on Martin Luther King Day.

    Richard Rogers, who lives next door to the family, answered his door Thursday night with a .357-caliber Magnum in his hand. He said he was carrying it because he was concerned that Tuck would be out on bail.

    "The kid is a white supremacist," Rogers said.


    Hey, you guys were right, it was way overblown, this couldn't be racism at all, as a matter of fact, where would they even come to that conclusion?


    What would make them think that to begin with? You're right, like some of you said, it looks like it was not racial at all and was just being exaggerated, and it's not like the 1st article mentioned that is was racial and was because he tried to kiss a "white girl" anyway.

    You see, I think that's the ignorance of todays racism. It's here, it's definitely alive today and people are blind to it and maybe sometimes they want to be blind to it. Pretty sad.

    My prayers are with the kid.
    Last edited by SA210; 04-28-2006 at 09:46 AM.

  8. #58
    may the force kick yo ass ObiwanGinobili's Avatar
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    When I was 12 1/2 I had a boy friend who was 15.. for the 1st 3 weeks we were together. then he turned 16. He was 16 and I was 12 for another 5 months.

    Nothing *gross* about it. We went ot the same school, had the same friends.... and , sadly, I looked the same at 12 1/2 as I do now at 25.... like an almost woman.
    We were "togetjer" for close on 3 years. My parents never had a problem with it and noone thought our age difference was weird.

    _______________________________________________

    That article makes me want to vomit. I dont; think I can finish my breakfast.

    They stomped his head with their boots," said Harris County Sheriff's Lt. John Denholm. "They stripped him naked and sodomized him with the PVC pipe used to hold up a patio umbrella."

    Tuck then kicked the pipe, causing even further damage, prosecutors said at a Thursday morning hearing.

    "I don't mean just a little bit," Harris County prosecutor Mike Trent told District Judge Michael McSpadden. "He kicked it in and shoved it so far in that he has caused major internal injuries and organ damage." Tuck wore steel-toed boots when he attacked the teen and kicked him in the head, Trent said.
    Jason Savage, 17, and Tommy Peterson, both Klein Collins sop res, said Tuck paraded around the subdivision with a flag of a swastika on Martin Luther King Day.

    I never travel thru East Texas. My potato-hispanic husband was on the recieving end of some racial hate in East Texas when he traveled there in High School as President of VICA.

  9. #59
    may the force kick yo ass ObiwanGinobili's Avatar
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    I think your soposed to italisize the blue.

    Good post.

  10. #60
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    When I was 12 1/2 I had a boy friend who was 15.. for the 1st 3 weeks we were together. then he turned 16. He was 16 and I was 12 for another 5 months.

    Nothing *gross* about it. We went ot the same school, had the same friends.... and , sadly, I looked the same at 12 1/2 as I do now at 25.... like an almost woman.
    We were "togetjer" for close on 3 years. My parents never had a problem with it and noone thought our age difference was weird.
    see, that's what I'm talking about. It is perfectly normal. To even say the guy deserved a beating for it is moronic!

  11. #61
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    I think your soposed to italisize the blue.

    Good post.
    Thanks, edited.

  12. #62
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    Obviously now that the details are out, everyone can see it was racially motivated. But from the original article, it wasn't that obvious to me just because he was Hispanic and they were white that it was solely BECAUSE of race.

    But sorry Obi and ManuMania, a 12-year-old being involved with a 16-year-old isn't normal.

  13. #63
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Obviously now that the details are out, everyone can see it was racially motivated. But from the original article, it wasn't that obvious to me just because he was Hispanic and they were white that it was solely BECAUSE of race.

    But sorry Obi and ManuMania, a 12-year-old being involved with a 16-year-old isn't normal.
    "White teens accused of brutal "racist" attack" <<---- le of the article by the Associated Press

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/27/te...k.ap/index.html

    SPRING, Texas (AP) -- Two white teenagers severely beat and sodomized a 16-year-old "Hispanic boy" who they believed had tried to kiss a 12-year-old "white girl" at a party, authorities said.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    The le says it, and the very 1st sentence mentions they sodomized him, the Hispanic, who they believed tried to kiss a "white girl".

    That, obviously was the focus of the police.

  14. #64
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    Most articles and news stories point out race.

    It doesn't mean they are all hate crimes.

    "White girl missing.."
    "Black teenager shot in gang violence.."

  15. #65
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Most articles and news stories point out race.

    It doesn't mean they are all hate crimes.

    "White girl missing.."
    "Black teenager shot in gang violence.."
    Only thing is, This article didn't just say Hispanic boy found beaten.

    It said the white boys were accused of "brutal racist attack".

  16. #66
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    I get your point. But just the le of the article said that. In the original article, there was no real evidence or reasoning of why they were calling it a racial attack other than the racial slurs. So it wasn't an obvious conclusion without more details. A lot of times here in society, things are slanted toward racial issues ... you are a smart person, I'm sure you realize that. So I don't get why you are so angry for people here just wanting to know more details before the race card was thrown. You act like Spurminator or timvp are racist for not agreeing right away. And I resent your insinuations. timvp and I are in an interracial marriage, so we obviously are up on race issues. He (like I) was just waiting for more details before assuming it was racially motivated.

    So please back off.

  17. #67
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    I get your point. But just the le of the article said that. In the original article, there was no real evidence or reasoning of why they were calling it a racial attack other than the racial slurs. So it wasn't an obvious conclusion without more details. A lot of times here in society, things are slanted toward racial issues ... you are a smart person, I'm sure you realize that. So I don't get why you are so angry for people here just wanting to know more details before the race card was thrown. You act like Spurminator or timvp are racist for not agreeing right away. And I resent your insinuations. timvp and I are in an interracial marriage, so we obviously are up on race issues. He (like I) was just waiting for more details before assuming it was racially motivated.

    So please back off.
    I never acted like they were racists. I insinuated that they were ignorant to the racial aspect of the article.

    And this doesn't seem as if timvp was waiting for more details. This is how he saw it.

    They didn't attack him because he was "Hispanic", they attacked him because he tried to kiss the 12-year-old (alledgedly, of course). I believe they started throwing some slurs at him, but that shouldn't even register as part of the story. The rest of what they did to the kid was bad enough, calling him a or whatever when they were doing it shouldn't even be part of the story and I don't believe it was a hate crime.
    I think maybe you misunderstood why I was still posting. I don't understand the "please back off" statement. I'm just participating in arguement and debate like everyone else on this board. I'm a big fan of yours, I'm just touched by this story.

    Sorry.

  18. #68
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    You can keep posting all day about it. But your sarcasm and attacking of people who had differing opinions than yours and weren't jumping to the conclusion it was race related just because of the le of the article isn't right.

    That was timvp's opinion based on the original article. He ignored the le of the article because of how often things get slanted toward racism when there are not. Obviously spurminator did the same thing (see his post is regarding the sister angle prior to timvp's). I too was waiting for more details because by the text of the original article, I wasn't going to assume that it was race related.

    You see, I think that's the ignorance of todays racism. It's here, it's definitely alive today and people are blind to it and maybe sometimes they want to be blind to it. Pretty sad.
    You calling us ignorant is where I'm telling you to back off. Obviously we aren't ignorant to the subject of race.

  19. #69
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    Glad to see the details have surfaced. Obviously race played a major role in this attack, but there were not enough details in the original article to make that connection.

    My hope for their burning in for eternity stands regardless.

  20. #70
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    But sorry Obi and ManuMania, a 12-year-old being involved with a 16-year-old isn't normal.
    really? why? because you say so? just wondering wether you mean it doens't happen often, or wether you mean its wrong.

  21. #71
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    You can keep posting all day about it. But your sarcasm and attacking of people who had differing opinions than yours and weren't jumping to the conclusion it was race related just because of the le of the article isn't right.

    That was timvp's opinion based on the original article. He ignored the le of the article because of how often things get slanted toward racism when there are not. Obviously spurminator did the same thing (see his post is regarding the sister angle prior to timvp's). I too was waiting for more details because by the text of the original article, I wasn't going to assume that it was race related.



    You calling us ignorant is where I'm telling you to back off. Obviously we aren't ignorant to the subject of race.
    The article said that they were being "ACCUSED" of a racial beating. That says alot.

    Now from Not only what the le says , but from the article, he assumed that race had No part in it whatsoever. That's why I said it was ignorance. It's fine to say maybe it could be something else, but to completely disregard the race issue (as timvp did) didn't make sense to me.

    Of course there are possibilities that it could be something else, I know all too well of how the race card gets played alot of times, but to disregard the accusations and just assume it was something else? Based on what? That the race card is played out?

    I know you may have been waiting for more details, but timvp had his mind made up if you read his staements. Spurminator however, Did leave it open for further details.

    You can have differing opinions. My sarcasm was to prove a point and everyone here does it.

    timvp was the one that said I need to be introduced to the meaning of hate crimes.

    And I didn't only base my thoughts on the racial aspect of the article and the headline alone,

    But also how the kids actually took there time to display their hatred on the boy. Like taking the time to not only beat him to where doctors think the boy is going to die at any moment, but also to sodomize the poor kid, and to bleach him, and to leave him for dead in the backyard overnight?

    This is important.

    I based my opinion on what could drive That kind of hate, and I figured that others wouldn't be blind to that and completely disregard racism as a possible motivation for That kind of hate.

    I looked at the meat of the story, not just the headlines.
    I have to disagree.

  22. #72
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    This isn't the political forum and I'm not going to argue with you. It seems you like to argue just to argue.

    Some people chose to wait for more details and some didn't. Apparently prosecutors were waiting for details too, thus the reason they said they hadn't attached hate crime charges yet. As Spurminator said "there were not enough details in the original article to make that connection."

    I resent you calling my husband and I ignorant to race issues. That's all I had to say.

  23. #73
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    . Apparently prosecutors were waiting for details too, thus the reason they said they hadn't attached hate crime charges yet.
    Prosecutors will not pursue the incident as a hate crime — because that would not enhance the first-degree felony charges or penalty possibilities — but said evidence of an ethnic motivation will be presented to jurors to consider if and when they weigh punishment, Trent said. Tuck and Turner are white.

  24. #74
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    I said "WERE", SA210. I'm aware that they have the details and are still not doing that now. I was saying WERE waiting .. because the first article states they hadn't done it yet.

  25. #75
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    Thats fine Kori, but seriously... in this case you have a couple of white trash kids beating and ass raping a hispanic boy while calling him racial insults (All facts that were mentioned in the first article). Seriously, how anyone would disregard the racial implications simply because the racial card is played too often is beyond me. However, I understand why you would want more info before making up your mind.

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