Is there any doubt Nash is the worst defensive player ever?

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah... Passed over star as in back to his unknown status of a few years ago when he averaged 21 points, 9+ rebounds, 2+ steals and wasn't named to the All-Star team because the Suns were en route to their worst record ever.

You mean en route to their worst record since 1999.

[Obstructed_View]

I repeat, MVP is not a defensive award so you make no sense!

MVP is obviously not an award for best player on your own team or best player at your own position, either.

[Nashfan]

Never said MVP was an award for best player on any team, though he is the most valuable player on our team. Without him we would not have gone this far this year or last year. He does happen to be the best player in the NBA at his position though. Just look at your point guard if thats what you would call him. He hardly ever gets any assists, actually I think Tim Duncan had the most assists for your team in the last game against the Mavs if I remember correctly. I think you guy's have enough to worry about with defending your le right now instead of pointing out shortcomings on other players, such as Nash. Take Duncan off your team and you probably would not have gone this far.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Don't get too offended, they're just overreacting to his back-to-back MVP's...Every player's got weaknesses anyway, they're just holding a grudge against Nash this year.

[JMarkJohns]

You mean en route to their worst record since 1999.

Well, no... We were both wrong. Outside of their 16-66 expansion season and the 27-23 lockout season, the Suns have had just two sub-30 win seasons, a 28-54 season of 1987-88 and the 29-53 season of 2003-04.

I was refering to the 2003-04 season.

You referenced the 1998-99, lockout-shortened season of 27-23.

I thought Phoenix tied the 28-54 mark, but they won 3-of-their-last-4 to overcome...

[747]

Does the fact that the league's GM's voted Nash the 05-06 MVP strengthen his case? Or are the GM's racist and blinded by his flashy passses as well?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Does the fact that the league's GM's voted Nash the 05-06 MVP strengthen his case? Or are the GM's racist and blinded by his flashy passses as well?

Not until all 30 GMs respond to the survey...

[JMarkJohns]

Not until all 30 GMs respond to the survey...

Like in any voting process, the only opinion that matters is the one filled out at the ballot. Only those who vote have the right to agree or disagree.

Those GM's who refused/failed to vote cannot now criticize the outcome.

We as fans can't diminish the opinion of those who did vote because of the absense of a few.

Of those GM's polled, Nash won.

As mentioned elsewhere, he was co-MVP with LeBron in Sporting News' opinion.

That's three services who said he's, at the very least, worthy to be mentioned for the honor.

Unlike the ruling opinion here, that Nash's weaknesses should weigh in heavier than his strengths, despite his strengths having far more impact on him, his team and the NBA than his weaknesses.

Everytime I think I'm out...

If this is any consolation, I voted for Dirk both here and at the site I moderate.

[Dunc]

OK, so were on to spelling critiques... clever boy!

It was done on purpose because this thread needed an anal-retentive spellchecker and HEY! What do ya know, I FOUND ONE!

Lol, I have to admit that this was kinda funny

[Obstructed_View]

Well, no... We were both wrong. Outside of their 16-66 expansion season and the 27-23 lockout season, the Suns have had just two sub-30 win seasons, a 28-54 season of 1987-88 and the 29-53 season of 2003-04.

I was refering to the 2003-04 season.

You referenced the 1998-99, lockout-shortened season of 27-23.

I thought Phoenix tied the 28-54 mark, but they won 3-of-their-last-4 to overcome...

DOH. Yeah, I ed that up.

[Obstructed_View]

Never said MVP was an award for best player on any team, though he is the most valuable player on our team. Without him we would not have gone this far this year or last year. He does happen to be the best player in the NBA at his position though. Just look at your point guard if thats what you would call him. He hardly ever gets any assists, actually I think Tim Duncan had the most assists for your team in the last game against the Mavs if I remember correctly. I think you guy's have enough to worry about with defending your le right now instead of pointing out shortcomings on other players, such as Nash. Take Duncan off your team and you probably would not have gone this far.

Way to avoid the question.

Nash gets more assists than Tony Parker. That's a convincing argument for Nash for MVP.

Duncan had more assists than Parker in a game. That's a convincing argument for Nash for MVP.

Just so you know, I didn't get the memo that the MVP trophy is the new award for leading the league in assists. John Stockton and Mark Jackson must be pissed.

By the way, Einstein, I'm not defending a le. I'm not a professional basketball player. I'm a fan who thinks Steve Nash is extremely overrated. Does that mean I don't think he's good? Hardly. Does it mean I don't think he elevates his game in the playoffs and in crunch time? Hardly. But don't sit there and try to defend back to back MVP les for the guy, because historically he doesn't match up at all, and the factors that voters used to defend his MVP vote last year aren't here this year, yet they still voted for him. Most of the ing voters don't even watch Nash play because they go to bed before the Suns play. You as a Suns fan and a blind homer can be happy about it all you want. You just look like an idiot trying to defend it, because you don't have any ammunition.

[Nashfan]

Obstructed View, your name really says it all. Did you look at the name of the thread? Also did you look at the stats of all the other players considered for MVP? Nash's stats are better if you look at percentages and minutes played. Who do you think should have won the MVP? Certainly not someone on the Spurs? I never said you were defending the le, your team is trying to defend their le. You say most of the voters don't even watch Nash play, do you not think that they have DVR's to record the games and then watch them? I don't consider myself anymore of a homer than you. Also for the John Stockton argument, he also had Malone, I think every year that he played and they never won a championship either. Malone was also more accomplished than Amare so don't really understand your point here. I don't remember who Mark Jackson played with and his stats so cannot comment on this point of yours. You can think Nash is extremely overrated all you want, that is your opinion and that is what I think message boards are about. Stop being angry because Nash was VOTED two time MVP and get a life! I also don't think you have any ammunition either.

[sickdsm]

He averaged 20 pts per game in college.....

Everyone scored in college....

[The-Wizz]

i doubt it because look at all the ppl who are stuck on the benches on all the teams i bet hes better then atleast 1 or 2 of those guys lol

[The-Wizz]

Obstructed View, your name really says it all. Did you look at the name of the thread? Also did you look at the stats of all the other players considered for MVP? Nash's stats are better if you look at percentages and minutes played. Who do you think should have won the MVP? Certainly not someone on the Spurs? I never said you were defending the le, your team is trying to defend their le. You say most of the voters don't even watch Nash play, do you not think that they have DVR's to record the games and then watch them? I don't consider myself anymore of a homer than you. Also for the John Stockton argument, he also had Malone, I think every year that he played and they never won a championship either. Malone was also more accomplished than Amare so don't really understand your point here. I don't remember who Mark Jackson played with and his stats so cannot comment on this point of yours. You can think Nash is extremely overrated all you want, that is your opinion and that is what I think message boards are about. Stop being angry because Nash was VOTED two time MVP and get a life! I also don't think you have any ammunition either.

in all that mumbo jumbo i dont see you saying that he isnt a bad defender

[Nashfan]

The-Wizz,

If you check post number forty-six on page two of this thread you will see that I said I don't think he is a good defender. Read the whole thread before you open your mouth.

[747]

You as a Suns fan and a blind homer can be happy about it all you want. You just look like an idiot trying to defend it, because you don't have any ammunition.

Except for two MVP trophies in the chamber.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol 2 wasted trophies..give them to a player that deserves it..nash has got to be the one of worst defenders in the league..well not just nash but the entire suns squad so you can't just blame him

[The-Wizz]

nashfan this thread is 2 big to read the whole thing if you read the whole thing then you need to get a life i usually read first page and last page thats it that all foks

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol, wizz you don't have a life so i don't see why you didn't read the entire post

[The-Wizz]

coming from a guy who has jsut posted in like 10 different topics without giving anyone time to reply in one of thsoe topics

[747]

Nash isnt a shut down defender, but he certainly isnt as bad as you want to make him out to be.

Steve Nash held his opponets to 49.7% field goal percentage.

Chauncey Billups held his opponents to 47.7% field goal percentage.

Over the course of an entire game, that may equal an extra basket at the most. Not exactly a huge issue.

Just for fun (during the 05-06 season)...

The Suns held their opponents to 45.4% field goal percentage.

The Pistons held their opponents to 45.2% field goal percentage.

[Bob Lanier]

Opponents FG% is a bull stat. Witness: Sam Cassell is being guarded by Shawn Marion. Sam Cassell is guarding ... Quinton Ross (see the point of this thread). And while Chauncey Billups is an overrated defender, Steve Nash is every bit as bad as he's made out to be. That's not to say he doesn't try; but either way he's just bad.

[747]

How often is Marion guarding a point guard? The vast majority of the time, Marion is on the PF...and Nash is on the PG.

I'll play along though...

Opponent FGP is a bogus stat. Fine. Tell me how else you can prove that Nash is the worst defender in the league. And I dont want to hear "because Scotty Pippen says so" or "BJ Armstrong blogged about it once".

The fact is that the Suns opponents score a ton of points. People automatically assume that it is because they are horrid defensively. That isnt the case. The Suns play decent defense, but with their offensive system, their opponents have about 10 more possessions a game than a Detroit or a San Antonio.

All that said, I am happy to concede that Nash is never going to squeeze anyone off the All-Defensive team. Calling him the "worst defensive player ever" however, is pure hyperbole.

[JMarkJohns]

A PG's defense is literally a by-product of his top shot-blocker. You got a great one (or two in Detroit's case) and your PG looks infinately better.

You have none (like Phoenix) and your PG looks infinately worse.

Obviously the PG is still a bad defender, but the shot-blocking keeps the opposition from constantly driving the lane, thus making your PG look that much better.

Nash is bad. Cassell is probably just as. Parke isn't good. Neither is Billups. Thing is, the last three have legit shot-blockers backing them up.

I'm convinced that's all a PG needs on defense is a top-notch shotblocker behind.