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You started it, I'm finishing it.
I'll read your replies, but I won't promise they are worth replying to, much like this one. Ride your empty boat without the paddle back to the short bus Mr. Man.
Touchy little , aren't you?
Show me this supposed slamming, owning and ing. Or shoud I just point everyone to the thread in the Spurs forum where I'm showing you up 6 ways from Sunday?
You started it, I'm finishing it.
I'll read your replies, but I won't promise they are worth replying to, much like this one. Ride your empty boat without the paddle back to the short bus Mr. Man.
Wow. Zing!
Leave anything about refs out let's look at the past, the series. Spurs were basically flawed. They had no long three/athletic big. They were forced to play small ball with a suboptimal group to do it with and no depth to do it with. Horry, by his own admission is tanked as a small ball player. Barry gave them a few ineffective minutes. They went into the season relying on NVE being an adequate backup. He sucked and gave them nothing. Ultimately the Spurs played a seven games series relying on six players. And with all that the Spurs were one Duncan putback from going to the WCFs. What happens when/if the Spurs address these issues? Obtain some depth, obtain an athletic big, obtain an adequate backup PG. It won't take a Duncan putback to put the Spurs over the top.
How about last year's Mavericks. The same team, by and large, that with sustained health and the luck of a few bounces adanced to the Finals for the first time ever.
Last year's Mavericks played 13 games, winning six of them. That's right, these same plucky Mavs went 6-7 last season.
Now, suppose I said this clearly showed how inferior a team they were upon entering this year? Would I have been smart to ignore past success? Would I have been justified in my claims? Would I have been foolish?
You sit in judgement against the Suns. That's all you do here.
You hype the Mavericks to the point where Memphis is a more worthy playoff opponant, with zero all-time playoff wins to their credit, than a Clippers team who nearly advanced to the Western Finals.
How is that logic? It can't even be supported. It's a claim, nothing more.
You say injuries weren't of much consequence. You say this, as a fan who's team pretty much had perfect health throughout this postseason run. What gives you the right to make such a claim? No, a team missing it's starting frontcourt and it's starting SG for half to all of the series didn't have any effect on the game. A team so desperate for defense and rebound, it missing it's two biggest rebounders and best perimeter defender meant nothing in the long run?
How is this logic? It can't even be rationalized. It's a claim, nothing more.
I've congratulated the deserving with the undeserving and you fall into the latter category. You're a whiny little know-it-all who's chanced into a perfect postseason run. A run, that had a rescinded Technical Foul never been called, might not even be continuing. Your team has had all the health, all the luck and has caught all the breaks. You're a team of destiny, evidently.
Unfortunately I guess that means we here have to wade through your crock of on a nightly basis now. I pray this perfect run of luck and health continues because you've dug yourself into such a damned hole. No ref-card, no-injury card, no-luck card. It's going to take near perfection by the Mavs. Anything happens, we now expect you to just shut the up and soldier. No margin for error. No room for mistake. No heedance to injury or a bad bounce of the ball.
Seriously.
Those are your rules for success, not ours.
Well put JMarkJohns.
In agreement with you...Some Mavs fans are completely delusional. Championship teams often take years to break through and it looks like the Suns will probably do so in the next few years. The Spurs had to get through the Lakers, the Mavs the Spurs, and for the Suns it looks like it'll be getting through the injuries and allowing the team to gel(with the Spurs and Mavs in the way). The Suns have completely overachieved this year and it'll be very interesting to see them next year with Amare.
How about last year's Mavericks. The same team, by and large, that with sustained health and the luck of a few bounces adanced to the Finals for the first time ever.
Last year's Mavericks played 13 games, winning six of them. That's right, these same plucky Mavs went 6-7 last season.
Now, suppose I said this clearly showed how inferior a team they were upon entering this year? Would I have been smart to ignore past success? Would I have been justified in my claims? Would I have been foolish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
jmark...for a minute i thought you had a real point here, but then I realized that what you are saying is not relevant.
based on playoff performance last year, the mavericks did not demonstrate that they were a championship caliber team. of course nothing in my posts indicates that i thought it did. regular season win totals would have suggested otherwise as you noted, but last year's playoffs were a big dissapointment in Big D. The interesting and relevant point is that most who rank the Suns as contenders would cite this years "impressive" playoff run as Exhibit A.
As for the rest of your embittered ramblings about personal distaste for me, i'll excuse this because i know you are in a dark place after last night's turn of events.
I never made any claim that injuries don't matter. i said that they go out the window as an excuse when you are one of four teams left eligable to win a le.
As for the Memphis being a playoff patsy because they hadnt won a playoff game in franchise history, this is especially funny. I believe that in assesing the Griz, its more pertinenet to consider what they accomplished this year (winning 49 games and establishing a top 2 defense in the league statistically) than what a different set of guys who wore the same jerseys(like jason williams and james posey) did 1-2 years ago playing against two very elite teams (spurs and last years suns).
good luck punching numbers and reviewing tape... I reccomend that you do whatever you need to to maintain your grating tone of self-rightous indignation...
better luck to your nice little squad next year. remember, now as always, that your logic is infallable.
JMARKJOHNS is my official spurstalk nemisis.
this guy has had far too much smoke blown up his ass for far too long.
Remember, it's not a rivalry until each side wins. Let me tell you, you aren't going to win a battle, let alone the fight.
I recommend just slinking back to whereever you think you cut your chops and practice a bit longer before you start bustin' my snuts.
You're a little too young and far too stupid to have me concerned.
When logic meets a post of yours, it will be the first time.
Last edited by JMarkJohns; 06-05-2006 at 03:12 AM.
Here's the main problem with your argument:
The Mavs beat the Griz in 4. It took 6 games to take down the Suns.
Suns > Griz
, Suns could probably beat the Pistons this year, the way they were playing.
I don't understand why you'd want to take anything away from the Suns, as Mav fan, I'd try to make the Suns seem as fierce as possible in order to give my franchise more legitimacy.
But, whatever, if you want to say the Mavs haven't accomplished anything, then I won't argue with you.
Based on what? Your own perception? The Suns had a better regular season record than all but three teams in the NBA, and they played to a game 6 in the Conference Finals.Taking an objective step back, I believe, suggests that this year's Suns squad was largely a mirage.
What part of that was a mirage? The 54 regular season wins, or the 10 postseason wins?
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nba0506.htm
the 54 regular season wins were a mirage in that they came by playing a style of ball that is great in the regular season but has consistently failed to yield playoff success.
the 10 postseason wins were a mirage because 4 of them came to a dreadful Lakers squad, 4 of them came against an average clippers squad, and they lost just as many games as they won.
maddog, your right running down the suns doesnt make the mavs look good...im making this argument as a basketball ovservor not a partisan fan, a concept that might by foreign to a lot of people on this board who would rather believe in conspiracies etc. than take a step back to look at the facts.
thats all well and good, but just saying it doesn't make it so. how about you respond to my post that dissected your flawed logic.
Remember, it's not a rivalry until each side wins. Let me tell you, you aren't going to win a battle, let alone the fight.
I recommend just slinking back to whereever you think you cut your chops and practice a bit longer before you start bustin' my snuts.
You're a little too young and far too stupid to have me concerned.
When logic meets a post of yours, it will be the first time.
since you think your wisdom is soconsistent and bulletproof, how about you start by enlightening me on how you reconcile your idea that this years Griz squad ( a new cast of veteran players) can be written off based on past franchise playoff performance, yet beating the Clippers (with their abysmal playoff history) should be regaurded as an impressive feat that validates your team's elite status.
on the other hand, according to the logic you have put forth in dismissing the Griz, I should be blown away by the fact that you guys beat the Mighty Lakers because Magic Johnson and Kareem used to play for them.
Last edited by pussyface; 06-05-2006 at 11:39 AM.
...Dantoni even admitted no one is going to respect the way his team plays until they win a le.
he should have said "no one outside of spurstalk" is going to believe this.
for holding the common sense basketball opinion, im catching a lot of funny hostility.
it had been awhile since i last saw Brutalis make an idiot of himself, all the while claiming he was winning the debate. good times, good times.
Well, I do agree with that.
PHX = no defense, Mavs = some defense.
(side note, did anyone else find it hilarous hearing Suns fans cry "defense, defense"? Suns fans should stay quiet when the opponent has the ball, and then yell "OFFENSE, OFFENSE" as Nash runs down the floor..."
As a basketball fan myself, I'm looking forward to the Heat/Mavs series. It could be a massive blowout if one team can force it's will on the other, or it could go to seven...
and I really have no clue who's going to win. (I picked Heat in 6 in vbookie, just because I couldn't resist the 15/1 odds!)
a shouldnt have said "common sense" basketball opinion.
a better word would be "prevailing."
like a fundamentalist who refuses to believe in evolution, jmark starts with his beliefs (the Suns are legit contenders, Steve Nash is a legit. 2 time MVP) and works backwards, yet never pauses to consider the shortcomings of the arguments he puts forth.
the result is some really funny, self-agrandizing rants.
To be fair, I think Steve did deserve the regular season MVP award.
He took a team with less talent than last year, and still ended up #2 in the West (even with the crappy seedings, still quite an accomplishment).
That said, the reg. season MVP award is about as meaningful as reg reason records against playoff opponents.
The real MVP will be in the Finals, and that will either be Dirk or Wade.
Let's just hope that Shaq and D-Wade and maybe even Antoine Walker get the coddling from the refs that Dirk and Devin Harris have gotten this whole playoffs, and then we'll see how much the word "ref" pops up in the vocabulary of trolls, Cuban, and Avery - please save this thread for that moment...
And I don't know how you can say that Memphis is a better le contender than Phoenix? The same Memphis team that is 0-12 in 4 playoff appearences? Un-real...
Lastly, of course you guys weren't scared of the Suns - that's why you played all kinds of disparaging videos on the jumbotron and tried to get Shawn Marion suspended for Game 6 or 7 because Adrian "I'll Dunk When I Want To" Griffin says: "He got me good; is there anything we can do?" His immediate thought after a non-intentional elbow is (1) to stare down Marion and (2) go to the bench and ask Cuban to try and get him kicked out a la Jason "prop-plane" Terry? Josh Howard's intentional smack to Tim Thomas's face was a lot more blatant because we all know Howard is a dirty player (and if you disagree - I'll forward the video evidence of this on its way to the league office... and please don't bring up the Thomas kiss to Dirk because that's just talking , not being "dirty" because both he and Dirk were talking enough BS on that play).
JMarkJohns is the .
Does this mean the Lakers didn't earn the series? So the Kings won!!!!!!!
Wooohoooooo. Kings win!!!! Kings win!!!! Kings win!!!!
Problem is this. If you knew how to read, you'd see I never dismissed any team. You dismissed the Clippers on the basis of what? That the Mavericks didn't play them? I said you can't prove the Griz were an elite team while the Clippers a bum team, especially when the Bum team was one win from making the Conference Finals.
It's an all or nothing statement, not an either or. Both the Grizzlies and Clippers or neither. That's what I'm saying. You stated you believe the Grizzlies were more le worthy in a first-round sweep than a Clippers team that came within one win of the Conference Finals and a Suns team who took two of the six games played vs. your Mavs in the Conference Finals.
It's not me who needs to justify his position with a logical response.
As for me saying your little rivalry is more of a beatdown in my favor, well... I'm not the only one who has said it.
Spurs fan
Mavs fan
Kings fan
Suns fan
These are just the posts who highlighted one of my arguments against you and commended it. Not even the post who just happened to agree with my takes and disagree with your. I don't think I'd be allowed to quote all of them. Post would be too long and would probably exceed allowable bandwidth...
Even if the Mavs get swept, Bennett Salvatore will bring an extra trophy over to Dirk and give it to him and apologize for not getting him to the line enough for them to win... or Dirk will reach out with his tongue and snatch it out of D-Wade's hands...
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