This don't float. You can't simply say they weren't good enough. While in general, it's truth, it's not the specifics that you were ready and willing to plunge into unfittly with the Suns.
Where was Howard throughout the series?
What happened to Avery's "adjustments"?
Why couldn't Dirk get to the FT line at will?
Where did Dirk go for large stretches of this series?
Was Mark Cuban a distraction?
Why couldn't they stop Wade?
Did one choke affect another?
What do these chokes do for their future?
Why couldn't they, with a good offense and good defense hold on to their double-digit leads?
Was it the players or the coach who royally messed up?
Why couldn't Dirk carry his team the way Wade carried his?
Why couldn't Dallas make open shots?
Why couldn't they get late-game stops?
Where were the consistant play of Dampier and Diop?
Where does Dallas go from here in reguards to Terry?
Will Dallas challenge next year without Terry?
If not, will their choke be remembered as one of the worst ever for blowing their ONE shot?
C'mon... how's about a little nibble?!
Again, you were quick to critique other teams who you weren't really qualified to critique.
If you want to simply stand on the all-encompassing cop out of "We just weren't good enough" then that's up to you...
Sounds a lot like "Both teams played hard, my man! Both teams played hard" however...
they are ridiculous for sure, but i would not say they are mean. i can think of crueler things to say than "i give you props of toilet paper". that's just comedic gold.If he's gonna make posts that are as mean and ridiculous as that then, damn right I'll make fun of him. If you're gonna slam someone in such a mean matter at least be able to spell the words correctly
jmark...
feel free to make the case for any of those bullet points you listed. There is a good chance I will agree with your criticisms.
I'll grant no excuses for my Mavs, and if you are looking for a lesson here than I suggest you do the same with your Suns' in the future.
Let's be honest - the Mavs were never a true le contender because they all have female genitals... I'm sure we can all agree on that... the 2-0 lead was given by the Heat to make it interesting... like Casey at the Bat...
Yeah, that is kinda funny
This is rather humorous. This is the first I've seen where avoiding accountability like the plague is being passed off as "not making any excuses"...
You've not adressed a single thing. Not only are you not making excuses, you're not listing any reasons why other than the cop out of "Just weren't good enough..." as if that was the only reason your team and its players managed to choke away several fourth-quarter leads and a series in which they lead 2-0 with homecourt for game six and seven.
It's not about making excuses. Never was. It's about you being a stand up post, not just defending, but critically looking at and breaking down YOUR team as you did other's teams.
Again, I guess that was too much to ask...
yes...asking me to give an indepth analysis is too much to ask. its not my thing and never has been. like at my post history. short, snappy messages, all of them.
i still dont know what your point is.
thats not what i do, sorry.
your statement on "avoiding accountability" is a real head scratcher. first of all, as a fan my accountability is limited. allican really do is not make excuses and move on. I don't understand why the Mavs losing disproves anything that I said about the Suns. And thats what this thread is about: you being angry about me not respecting your beloved Suns.
If you want to make points about the Mavs, as I did about the Suns, I may or may not resond. I will not, however, question your motivations for calling out my mavericks and defend them at all costs like a partisan hack. that is the essential difference between us.
JMARK: You criticized my team when they were eliminated from the playoffs. Therefore you are required to write an indepth analysis detailing the failure of your own team or else you will have soiled your honor!
PUSSY: I dont see how that adds up. No excuses though. We lost.
JMARK: This guy just gives the run around. You are just trying to avoid acountability in an unprecedented way! You cant just admit defeat, you are obliged to spend your time addressing this issue in every specific detail at naseum.
Pussy: ???
hey jmark.
There was a guy here in the first round who said after the Spurs/Kings series that the Kings weren't as good as the Spurs.
After the Spurs lost to the Mavericks, they failed to post extensively on how and why the Mavs are better than the Spurs.
Where was your anger towards this guy?
He had NO MARGIN FOR ERROR! I think it was KARMA!
Perhaps the reason you didn't respond to him the same way you did to me is because you have an emotional connection with the Suns and are therefore unable to look at their situation with total objectivity.
Your emotions were obiously triggered by my taking on your team. Because you are acting out of emotion, your logic is not cogent. For instance, logic in no way dictates that I would be obliged to write an in depth analysis on the death of the Mavs (as my Spurs fan analogy demonstrates.)
No Kiddo. You eliminated everything, including failure. No refs. No injuries. No breaks. You demanded perfection from a team that was bogged down with injury. So I demanded the same from your, perfectly healthy team, saying I would hold them accountable according to your previous criteria, then you accountable for creating the insane litmus test.
I congratulated the Mavericks and broke down the Suns on my own. Don't recall? Of course you don't. You only remember that you think the world of yourself. You probably don't even recall others, of many different team affiliations, including the Mavs, taking issue with your crap.
The Mavs beat the Suns. Not just defeated, but beat. They won the series. The Suns didn't just lose it. That's what it all came down to. I've said that a dozen times here. I never drudged up excuses for the Suns. It was your overly critical opinion of Steve Nash and the Suns, claiming them to be inferior and undeserving of any real praise.
Yes, I took exception and defended them.
But only after I was critical myself.
And don't give me this crap that you only type one-liners in response. Your posts rival mine in length. Shame not in content.
Pusspuss, you admitted to not being the authority you claimed to be, having not watched enough games to come away with the conclusion you had.
You have only your opinions.
The reason I will not break down the Mavs, is I saw just around 30 games, most coming in the playoffs. That's not a fair amount of games to figure things out.
I had hoped the same thing that compelled your disertations on the Suns and Nash might compell you to do the same on your Mavericks and maybe Dirk after a similerly disappointing 6-game series loss.
First off, are you saying a Spurs fan defended his team? Did he simply say that the Spurs were better or did he, in an overly critical and illogical fashion question the main players on the Kings, accusing them of not being worthy of praise and questioning both this past season's accomplishments and the future of said team?
I have a feeling he was the prior, while you are the latter.
You didn't just annoy me. You annoyed several fans, including those of other teams. The point is, you're not the end all, be all when it comes to a team analysis and even though you think seeing a dozen or so games makes you qualified to not just claim a critical opinion, but insist upon it, it simply does not.
But again, when the finger you pointed is know turned upon the pointer and the pointer's favorite team, now the critical thought and provoking claims are nonexistant.
Do you think Jmark understands how little sense he is making? He made a few comments about the suns so now he has to answere to you by making exuses and explaining his teams loss? Your lame attempts of trying to bait pussy in to a sad exuse for an argument are just that, lame. But then again it seems pussy has risen to the bait so erm whatever.
Apparently no one is pemited to post their thoughts about a team with out facing Jmark the judge jurry and hammer.
Last edited by N4th4n; 06-22-2006 at 05:37 PM.
Clever boy.
Here to hold me accountable? Save it. Already admitted to being wrong on the Suns. I figured them for dead, beacuse they showed no heart late in the year. I claimed they would struggle, if not lose in the first round, claiming if they faced anyone but the Lakers, they would be in BIG trouble. Well, the first round struggles proved me right. They struggled the same in the second round, but finally showed heart, so they beat the Clippers, therefore proving me wrong.
Fact is I picked them in seven over the Lakers: right
Fact is I picked the Clippers in six over the Suns: wrong
Fact is I picked the Mavericks in seven over the Suns: wrong, but by barely.
Fact is, I never looked at the Lakers and claimed them to be a fluke, or unworthy or smoke and mirrors.
Fact is, I never said the Clippers were a one hit wonder who had one good season and will then revert to form.
Fact is, I never critiqued the Mavericks, not even after they lossed to the Heat.
In fact, I say they are still an elite team with the chance of getting back to the Finals next year, depending on the offseason of them and others and how the playoffs break for them.
Pretty uplifting, huh?
Fact is, if pussyface had said the Suns were a joke at .net, he'd have been banned. Fact is, if he'd have been critical of Nash over at .net, he'd have been banned.
I've seen it.
Go back home son.
Don't bring the AZcentral vs. PhxSuns.net fued in to this.
He claimed me his rival weeks ago. He sought me out. Not the other way around. Homework, boyo... time ya did yours.
Does this have to do with anything? I was speaking of you overbearing criticizem of pussface.
On another note sure the Suns showed amazing heart and grit during the playoffs, and personaly I think they have a good chance of winning it all next year.
However pussy does have a good point. It took them 7 games to finish off a team that started Smush parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown - weak sauce.
It took them seven game to finish of a fantastic Clippers team with a dominante front court - admerable
They lost in 6 to the mavs- sad if not some what unexpected.
They had an amazing run but that was about it, they far from dominated the teams they played.
They deserve alot of credit, but dont give them more then they earned.
Anyway.... I came into this thread with out baggage, so I dont know why your are bring our prefered forums into this. Our respesctive opions on these forums have nothing to do with the matter at hand, infact neither do your thoughts on the suns playoff performance.
Ah I forgot, your the only one permited to do that.........
jmark has a knack for recasting arguments and revising history.
the basis for all that bull he just got made fun of for was supposed to be that I singled out the Suns as "not worthy of serious praise." Here, he is sensationalizing my argument to make himself seem justified, a technique he employs frequently.
if you read the content of the original post that started Judge Dredd here on his jihad, you will see that I said the Suns overacheived and that if I were a fan of them I'd be proud. My point was merely that they did OVERACHEIVE and were not legit le contenders in hindsight, based on the totallity of the facts/information available. The fact that this uears Suns were OVERACHIEVING and WORTHY OF PRAISE is entirely consistent with everything I said about their realistic chances of winning it all.
Review it yourself you sad, ridiculous old man.
Well i'll be damn...I go to work and look who finally shows up?
What's your excuse Pussyface? JM called you out and now u just replying???
I'm still looking for that championship ring from the Mavs....
He created the criteria. He forced it down all the posters throats here. I waffled as to whether I should or not, but I chose to call him out. Many others here were just as annoyed with his act as I, including some Maverick fans.
Of course you do, so that means you don't agree with pussyface's assessment that the Suns are a sinking ship.On another note sure the Suns showed amazing heart and grit during the playoffs, and personaly I think they have a good chance of winning it all next year.
This was the same point I made, before the fact that you criticized me for.However pussy does have a good point. It took them 7 games to finish off a team that started Smush parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown - weak sauce.
I agree. Had they LOST in the first round, the entire season would have been a disappointment. Fact is, they didn't lose. They prevailed. However little you think of the opponant, having to win three straight elimination games, including one on the road without your best defender and most consistant 3-point threat, is impressive.
It was an amazing feat, considering by they were rotating four SF's at the PF and C position the entire series, vs. one of the biggest and better frontlines in the game.It took them seven game to finish of a fantastic Clippers team with a dominante front court - admerable
Unexpected? For those guzzling the Kool-aid...They lost in 6 to the mavs- sad if not some what unexpected.
The majority of folks picked Dallas, if for no other reason, they had the homecourt. Opinions may have changed, even if briefly, when the Suns snatched away game one, but that was quickly lost. Once Dallas regained the homecourt, Suns were the underdogs again. Overworked and Undermanned.
I never said they did, but by and large, they weren't dominated either. Just about every game they lost, they held a late lead or were within a defensive stop and a made basket from winning.They had an amazing run but that was about it, they far from dominated the teams they played.
Since when does a team have to roll through their compe ion to validate their position or worth? That's rediculous.
What? You mean like me saying Dallas BEAT the Suns. I gave almost all the credit to the Mavericks for controlling the tempo and the boards. That was the Suns flaw. They couldn't rebound.They deserve alot of credit, but dont give them more then they earned.
But don't address why, because injuries have absolutely no impact on a team. The Suns would have eeked out series vs. the LaLas and still lost to the Mavs in six had they had their starting frontcourt.
While I brought it up, I never did so in an attempt to take anything away from Dallas.
Thus my schtick of, "You play who ya got... you beat who ya play... you never allow yourself to be in a position where one late, bad call can determine your fate for you..."
However, considering the starting frontcourt missed a minimum of half the season and a maximum of 98% of one, it does factor in to why this Suns team, as tragically flawed as they were, deserves credit. They were undermanned and overworked, but still had their chances. They failed to take advantage of them, so they lost.
Tell that to pussyface, as he's the one who keeps bringing that up....infact neither do your thoughts on the suns playoff performance.
My intention here and I believe it's understood by the vast majority of those who've stumbled into this thread was to have pussyface hold his own team to the same standards that he, himself established for others teams, just mere weeks before.
Instead, he comes in with, "just weren't good enough" and passes on the particulars after spending countless hours arguing with me and dozens of others on the Suns woes ans wants.
Spurs fan
pussyface is Monty Python's Black Knight of internet jousting. With no arms, no legs left he'll call it a draw.
JMark with da gunz blazing!
Mavs fan
Kings fan
Suns fan
Last edited by JMarkJohns; 06-22-2006 at 07:17 PM.
this is the sort of thing i am talking about.
i responded with a very specific fact, in this case that I singled out the Suns being worthy of praise as overacheivers, yet in your posts I was charachterized as saying they didn't deserve credit for anything.
i hoped that you would respond to this, but you came back instead with the fact that you are more popular than me among spurstalk users (especially when you quotes selectively.) what about the fact that you falsely charachterized the opinions I put forward?
this is why this exchange doesnt work with you. you aren't concerned with dialogue or truth and are blinded by the emotion you felt when you read my post that politely dissected the Suns.
If there weren't some truth to what I said, you wouldnt have gotten upset. I urge anyone reading this to go back and read the original message of my post on the Suns, which youll find on page 1. My comments were rational and many, many analysts/experts would agree. Yet jmark casts my take as a wildly negative spin that was far outside the mainstream. That doesn't jive with the facts, no matter what else you come back at me with.
The only one who would possible take offense to them would be a Suns partisan.
I think the world of many Maverick fans. You aren't one of them.
I'll leave well enough alone now.
It's obvious you have no desire to play by your own guidelines.
Mavsfan100, halfadozen more here and the dozen's I know from elsewhere may stick up for the Mavs to a fault, but they aren't pricks to other teams and players.
For them, I wish things had gone differently. For You and Cubes, not so much.
thank you for abondoning the pretense of having a principaled argument with me.
thank you for admitting that your arguments were motivated strictly by personal hostility towards me and not because you actually believed any of the craziness/insanity you were putting forth for discussion.
Ok...
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