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so since Israel didn't posses his land 60 years ago, Israel is only 1/10 legal.
You're an anti-semite.
More than likely a majority of those raised in the Midde East are and therein lies the problem.
so since Israel didn't posses his land 60 years ago, Israel is only 1/10 legal.
You're an anti-semite.
[QUOTE]Don't state it as fact unless you have something to back it up with.
Either provide a link to substantiate this mess (you won't find one) or add an IMO as a qualifier.
...
25% of Allied victims in WW2 were civilians.
65% of Axis victims in WW2 were civilians.
>70% of Israel victims in Lebanon are civilians.
Israel killed more children in this past days than Hezbollah ever did.
Directly responding to this might cause you to think it has merit. With that being said I'll refrain and let it serve as monument of your intellect.
velik, please don't tell me that this is your proof that Israel doesn't care if they kill children.
For those of you trying to compare. Israel always trys to take the moral high ground in these situations. Palestinions have had absolutely nothing militarily; no planes or aircraft of any kind, no ships, very few guns, old rockets, homemade bombs and such. The Israelis have had the unconditional support the US government both in aid/money and military hardware. Palestinions and Arabs have always viewed the presence of Israel as an occupation since it's establishment in 1948. They have been treated as second class citizens ever since and have tried to garner support for their cause throughout the world to no avail.
Now if U look at the situation from the perspective of the occupied and oppressed, then what is your alternative? These people discovered a way to fight through gorilla-type war tactics and to an extent, have had some success in their fight or resistance against occupation and oppression. Now from the Israeli side, the Palestinian resistence is a militia group/terror group or called some other name that makes their fight seem less heroic or noble.
At this point Israel is not going anywhere, but the Israeli government and the world will have to address the real problems of that region of the world. Noone wants to live life with a 100 lb. military boot pressing on your neck at every moment of the day of your lifetime and the prospect of the same thing happening to your children being seemingly guaranteed by your occupiers biggest supporters with their unconditional support for them.
I can't say how inappropriate the thought of children signing bombs is. It is just beyond comprehension that Israel would allow children near live rounds let alone sign them with messages of hate. Those children are now victims of their own government's inability to find any sense of humanity.
?The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people. These have not been surgical strikes. And it?s very difficult, I think, to understand the kind of military tactics that have been used.? (The British Foreign Office Minister Kim Howell)
http://www.itv.com/news/index_97c842...bbcafaf95.html
From the high civilian (and children) casualties i can only asume they either don't care about collateral damage or they are purposley targeting them (which i don't belive).
In my opinion their actions speak louder than their words.
[QUOTE]How does being give a piece of land by the United Nations, the size of New Jersey, equate to oppression of Arabs and Palestinians? And how does that parceling of land justify unabated attacks on Israel?[QUOTE]
Sorry to hear that your ability to comprehend is so limited. There's a plethora of macabre occurences happening daily in the M/E and the world that numb the senses but this missle signing is not one of them.I can't say how inappropriate the thought of children signing bombs is. It is just beyond comprehension that Israel would allow children near live rounds let alone sign them with messages of hate.
Part of the chess game that is being played does have a civilan component to it. The Israeli brain trust thought that by destroying infrastructure, it would cut off escape routes for whomever captured the 3 soldiers. They also knew it would prevent civilians from getting out of harms way and that was acceptable, because they thought the Lebonese people would blame Hezbolla for this new round of oppression and abuse by Israel and the world ie. US. The problem was, all of this was flawed thinking and now the prospect of sending young Americans to the region is very real.
Last edited by Doc Jerome; 07-30-2006 at 08:33 AM.
[QUOTE=jochhejaam][QUOTE]
How does being give a piece of land by the United Nations, the size of New Jersey, equate to oppression of Arabs and Palestinians? And how does that parceling of land justify unabated attacks on Israel?
Sorry to hear that your ability to comprehend is so limited. There's a plethora of macabre occurences happening daily in the M/E and the world that numb the senses but this missle signing is not one of them.
Israel was established on the basis of the "Jews" being Gods chosen people that were supposedly taken into slavery by the Romans and the World (UN) giving this land to the "Jews" to fulfill God's promise of them having land of their own. Israel was given the land after it's own gorilla war which could be viewed as a terriorist militia in itself. Israelis stole what they needed (supplies) to establish their country. As far as that little parceling of land, their were people that lived on that land before Israel was established. They were kicked off and given nothing in return for it.
1) One could infer that if the Jews are indeed the chosen people by God, then everyone else is not and therefore less in some way.
2) Anyone kicked off their land and given nothing in return for it, but the reasoning above should not be viewed with the bewilderment that you seem to display when they react negatively.
When U don't have an argument to present, it is easy to sling insults. Trying to use comparisons with other di able actions does not lessen the tragedy committed on the minds and souls of those Israeli children that were not so fortunate and signed live bombs to be sent to kill other children.
You stated that you found the missle signing to be "beyond comprehension". That's either a gross overstatement of a sign of low comprehension.When U don't have an argument to present, it is easy to sling insults. Trying to use comparisons with other di able actions does not lessen the tragedy committed on the minds and souls of those Israeli children that were not so fortunate and signed live bombs to be sent to kill other children.
If you found is insulting you certainly have the right to qualify it. You failed to do so and therefore I stand by what I said.
You interpreted my statement as a comparison for the purpose of justification, I define what I said as putting things in their proper perspective.
Your whole argument is flawed because you use statements as comparison for the purpose of justification. Perspective is one thing, but you continuously use these to distort perspective. The tragic effects of government sanctioned school trips to sign live ammunition and telling the children who sign that they are sending a message; as if this will validate what they have written, is the height of inhumanity for a people who's claim to the "holy land" is that they are indeed God's chosen. This does not put Jews or the Israeli government above moral condemnation or criticism. You know this and I suspect, that is why you lash out with insults.
By the way, Jochhejaam
Being anti Israeli policy does not equate with being anti-semetic. You have taken this misidentification too far.
This post is the largest load of bull I've ever seen. There's not a single part of it that's correct.Israel was established on the basis of the "Jews" being Gods chosen people that were supposedly taken into slavery by the Romans and the World (UN) giving this land to the "Jews" to fulfill God's promise of them having land of their own. Israel was given the land after it's own gorilla war which could be viewed as a terriorist militia in itself. Israelis stole what they needed (supplies) to establish their country. As far as that little parceling of land, their were people that lived on that land before Israel was established. They were kicked off and given nothing in return for it.
1) One could infer that if the Jews are indeed the chosen people by God, then everyone else is not and therefore less in some way.
2) Anyone kicked off their land and given nothing in return for it, but the reasoning above should not be viewed with the bewilderment that you seem to display when they react negatively.
When U don't have an argument to present, it is easy to sling insults. Trying to use comparisons with other di able actions does not lessen the tragedy committed on the minds and souls of those Israeli children that were not so fortunate and signed live bombs to be sent to kill other children.
The League of Nations made a declaration for a jewish state before the end of world war I. The Jews legally bought most of their territory through individual private purchases, and the rest was purchased through what was known as the JNF. The land was purchased by Jews from Arabs, who laughed at the stupid Jews for paying so much for worthless land. In 1947 the UN declared that there would be two independent states; one for the Jews and one for the Muslims. The Muslims instead decided to take all of it and Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon attacked Israel with the intention of wiping the Jews out. Unfortunately for them, Israel survived. Over the following years, about a million Jewish refugees from those countries fled to Israel. None of those countries that attacked Israel took in any of the Muslim refugees that resulted from the war they started. There are now approximately five million refugees claiming right of return to Palestine, when there were about half a million in 1948. I'd point out the discrepancy in the math there, but it would probably fall on deaf ears.
And why, by the way, would anyone be surprised that you wouldn't be bewildered by the behavior of people claiming to have been kicked off of land that they sold? You aren't bewildered by people letting terrorists launch rockets on their roofs and then wondering why they get hit by bombs.
You are all the same. You distort history to serve your own purpose. You can't engage anyone in any sort of discussion about Israel without call them names or slinging insults. You can practice your misinformed half truths on someone who will accept it for face value. Jews were stealing equipment supplies and resources from the allies and diverted to their armed militia at the end of 1945. This is fact. Some land was bought, but all of it was not.
What is the justification in the Israeli gov. kidnapping Palestinions and Arabs; keeping them in prisons for simply speaking out against Israel's policies. Address the root of the problem and not the balance of the status quo in favor of Israel.
It is you and people of your line of thinking that should rethink who is bewildered, bewitched, and who is actually being bothered.
Last edited by Doc Jerome; 07-30-2006 at 03:44 PM.
When they actually were kicked off, their claims have merrit. There is no way that blowing up a building housing civilians because some so called "militant" launched a rocket from it's roof top justifies killing everyone in the building to MAYBE get the guy or guys who launched said missle. It isn't even clear if those buildings are being used for this purpose. You go figure.
To Obstructed_View:
This is a pretext for something else.
Gotta go. Later.
First of all, when did I call names or sling insults? I said your post was bull . Believe me, that's being kind. If you don't want to cite history or the news in order to have a discussion then we won't have it for long.You are all the same. You distort history to serve your own purpose. You can't engage anyone in any sort of discussion about Israel without call them names or slinging insults. You can practice your misinformed half truths on someone who will accept it for face value. Jews were stealing equipment supplies and resources from the allies and diverted to their armed militia at the end of 1945. This is fact. Some land was bought, but all of it was not.
What is the justification in the Israeli gov. kidnapping Palestinions and Arabs; keeping them in prisons for simply speaking out against Israel's policies. Address the root of the problem and not the balence of the status quo in favor of Israel.
It is you and people of your line of thinking that should rethink who is bewildered, bewitched, and who is actually being bothered.
I'm going to offer you a piece of advice. In fact, I'm going to implore you: PLEASE do not take anything I say at face value. Don't take anything ANYONE says at face value. You should learn to be able to sort out the truths from the half-truths on your own. It's a skill you could really use, because the only other alternative is that you have some anti-Israel bias that you think isn't showing. I think you just say that you hear other people repeat, which is a shame considering you have the entire world at the end of your keyboard.
Find the errors in my post and we'll go through them if you'd like. Show me the examples of Israel sneaking into neighboring countries and taking their people hostage, and we'll talk about it. Make blanket accusations or give anecdotal evidence of crimes and, again, we have nothing to talk about.
The only reason I sound like I'm defending Israel is because you are making completely fallacious statements.
I agree. I can't see how there's any gain from doing that at all, but I haven't been fighting an enemy for sixty years that plays by rules like that and wins. Israel has had their civilians specifically targeted for years by many groups, including Hezbollah. Israel is showing more care for civilians on both sides of the conflict than their enemies ever have, they are just showing less than they ever have before.There is no way that blowing up a building housing civilians because some so called "militant" launched a rocket from it's roof top justifies killing everyone in the building to MAYBE get the guy or guys who launched said missle. It isn't even clear if those buildings are being used for this purpose. You go figure.
I've seen it mentioned more times than I remember that Israel is making a mistake by pissing off the Muslims and creating more terrorists. I think the terrorists finally made a mistake and pissed off the Israelis, who figure they have nothing to lose when surrounded by people that either actively try to kill them or will give aid and comfort to those who do. The UN has passed resolutions for Israel to follow, which they have. The UN has failed to enforce resolutions upon enemies of Israel, and they look to be sick of waiting for the world to do something about it.
I've never stated that being an anti Israel view has to equate to being anti-semitic. At times I look or ask for a qualification when someone states that they are anti-Israel.By the way, Jochhejaam
Being anti Israeli policy does not equate with being anti-semetic. You have taken this misidentification too far.
It's helpful to get the facts before commenting.
Actually, when someone morally condemns one side while completely ignoring what the other side has done, and continues to do, I personally question their motivations.
[QUOTE]No, I continuously use the comparisons and bigger picture to put thing in perspective.
You're right of course, even the holocaust seems humane compared to the missle signing.The tragic effects of government sanctioned school trips to sign live ammunition and telling the children who sign that they are sending a message; as if this will validate what they have written, is the height of inhumanity
No one's above condemnation and I'll reiterate that anyone finding the missle signing "beyond comprehension" is comprehension-challenged.for a people who's claim to the "holy land" is that they are indeed God's chosen. This does not put Jews or the Israeli government above moral condemnation or criticism. You know this and I suspect, that is why you lash out with insults.
If the shoe fits, wear it.
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