There are several reasons why we lost, but bad calls was not one of them. First of all, all of the teams in the tournament except the U.S. have been playing together for years. Team work > individual talent. Secondly, the U.S. doesn't bring their best players. Where was Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Marion, Garnett, Iverson, etc? For one reason or another, most of the top players couldn't make it. Not to mention, Iverson was wrongfully not invited. You can't teach a team everything they need to know in 3 weeks, much less develop chemistry. Not to mention, we still haven't learned our lesson about bringing more shooters. We don't have many 3pt. specialists besides Joe Johnson who is too streaky. International basketball is played on the perimeter. Until the U.S. realizes that Teamwork > good individual players, this will be the case every year. We will continue to do no better than 3rd each year untill something is changed.
Last edited by mavs>spurs2; 09-01-2006 at 06:17 PM.
The list can go on and on, experience at the point guard position and other positions is another issue. CP3 and Hinrich are both good passers, but not as experienced as the people they are going up against. I think we could have used Iverson, if he is willing to be a pass first guy instead of a me-first guy.
Kobe and Marion were recovering from surgery.Where was Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Marion, Garnett, Iverson, etc?
The rest of those guys don't wear Nike shoes.
Lol then somebody better hurry up and buy them a pair of Nikes.
Let's look at the decision making core of Team USA:
* Colangelo: got the rules changed in the NBA to take away hand checks on the perimeter. Yeah, he cares about defense - less of it
* D'Antoni as the primary assistant: defense is a four letter word to him
* Coach K: no coach in the college or pros benefits more from biased officiating than Coach K at Duke. Of course, it helps that he is the senior most coach on the NCAA committee that reviews all officials at the end of each year and decides who gets to call DI games next year.
Take away that power over the refs, and Coach K isn't near as good, and he had already let the inmates (D'ANtoni and Colangelo) take over the asylum before the team even left for Asia.
Keeping Shane Battier over Bowen (I don't care that they say it was Brad Miller - okay fine, he didn't even play - WTF?!?!) was the nail in Team USA's coffin.
Until the people in charge of picking Team USA wakes the up, nothing will change with this team. And spare me all the hype about how this was to get their feet wet in preparation for 2008 Olympic play. If the team is going to be run the same way, they won't win it then either.
Lame post from a lame poster.
fiba is not > nba. it's just different, more romantic game
but fiba is definately > team nike
fiba is not > nba. it's just different, more romantic game
but fiba is definately > team nike
FIBA is romantic and it is greater than team USA.
the best men in the NBA are not playing against those guys. Only the young & future superstars. There's actually only 1 NBA champion on that team-Wade.lost by 4pts,and in just a month of camp practice...
what if Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, AI, Pierce, Kidd, Big Ben, Billups, Amare, Carter participated?
I don't think so.
NBA is still>Fiba
Funny how some react...
FIBA ain't superior to NBA, FIBA's is superior basketball to NBA's (in my mind).
Sure, the NBA has the best players (95 % of them at least) but then again skill ain't all in a team oriented game (that is basketball, huge individual skill inside a system). That's the whole difference... FIBA is still a team game, NBA's not anymore... It's a choice (flashier game on the NBA side for what matters).
And, for once, can you admit a defeat ? 2002, 2004, 2006 and counting... Those are not accidents... The world catched up... Back then the FIBA's rules where not a problem for the great NBAers but, obviously, the world took the challenge. Period.
And finally, arrogance is what prevent questionning and solving your own problems... No the refs don't steal the show in FIBA, yes FIBA's players do adapt to NBA style quite easily (success varies but then again you need more than just skill to get your chance in the NBA).
It remains me of discussion between Nascar and F1... Sure NASCAR is the greatest auto support ever (lol) but why do F1 drivers (even average one) are good when they go NASCAR (one could wonder why they bury themselves there of course but the answer is simple: no more opportunity in F1) when the reverse ain't true... The answer is simple (to sum up): fundamentals (which is not the same as skill that all great drivers have to a certain degree). Think about it a little and, especially, in basketball.
this is basicly it
to many people being smartasses about everything blablah
if USA would win the gold noone would say anything
We should take the best of both worlds....
1. FIBA Trapezoid Lane > NBA Rectangle Lane
It spaces the floor better and allows more back cuts to the basket; which are always entertaining to watch.
2. NBA 3pt line > FIBA 3pt line
For the same reasoning as number 1, it too spaces the floor better.
3. NBA 48 minute game (12 minute quarters) > FIBA 40 minute game (10 minute quarters)
No one wants to pay for such a short show!!!
4. FIBA Goaltending Rule > NBA Goaltending Rule
It only happens maybe five or six times per game... but it makes the game more interesting and dramatic. Imagine tapping out a game winning free-throw as it is rattling around the rim... DRAMA!!!
5. NBA 6 personal foul limit > FIBA 5 personal foul limit
No one wants to see star players in foul trouble every single game do they???
6. FIBA Ball > NBA Ball
I've always thought the NBA ball was too big... I know my hands aren't as big as players from the NBA but slightly smaller balls allow for better dribbling... less deflections, and require better rebounding instincts. Not to mention more people are able to dunk it...
7. FIBA time out rule > NBA time out rule
I like the fact that only the coach can call time outs... It gives the game more flow.
8. NBA playoff series format > FIBA single elimination format
Best of 3 would be a suitable compromise. And what's with all these back-to-backs in an official tournament? People want to see teams match up against each other with their better rested selves.
9. NBA Refs and FIBA Refs both suck....
-- when will they incorporate better technologies?
-- FIBA refs miss several calls due to lack of consistency among the different world leagues...
-- NBA refs miss calls due to owner intimidation and the Stern-factor... and for wanting to take the spotlight...
There are probably some other points.
Foreign Hoops Is All Greek to U.S.
By Michael Wilbon
Saturday, September 2, 2006; E01
Our arrogance has no boundaries when it comes to international basketball, though it ought to by now, after yet another loss in a major compe ion. Even Americans who pay fairly close attention to world basketball, people who should know better, took one look at the Greek roster and dismissively figured, "No NBA players on the roster? Then no chance for Greece."
As dumb as it is for American fans to be so presumptuous, especially after a string of losses dating from 1987, it's even dumber for anybody actually involved in international compe ion to be dismissive. But that's exactly what I heard in the words of Team USA's Joe Johnson earlier this week. The Atlanta Hawks guard, asked if the United States is unstoppable when the team shoots well, answered: "No doubt, when our shots are falling and when they're not falling. I think our biggest opponent is ourselves right now."
This was after beating up on the likes of Senegal and Australia, teams that were never going to challenge the world's top teams anyway. But you know how we roll; one foreign basketball team is the same as another. China, Senegal, Greece and Spain . . . they're all the same, right? They are to most Americans, fans and players alike, which is one of many reasons U.S. teams, first the college boys and now the pros, are getting whipped in these international compe ions.
We commit the single most arrogant and unpardonable mistake in compe ion: We underestimate the opponent. , half the time we don't even pay any attention to the opponent. We didn't know the Greek players, so how could they be any good? Where are their phat shoe contracts? Where were they in the Top 10 Dunks on "SportsCenter"? How talented could they be if they don't have a Gatorade commercial or answer to a single name like Shaq or Kobe or LeBron?
Greece? Why should we pay attention to Greece?
Because they won. Because Greece, a team known only for playing good defense in this tournament, scored 101 points early Friday morning in Japan and eliminated Team USA from the FIBA World Championship.
In every other sport we seem to understand that we're not the only ones playing, that we're not vastly superior and, in fact, often aren't as good. We're fairly arrogant about Ryder Cup play, too, but not to the extreme of basketball. Americans only popularized golf; we invented basketball. And we dominated hoops for nearly 100 years if you don't count being cheated out of the gold medal in the 1972 Olympics.
But a lot has happened since, beginning in 1987, when Brazil beat a U.S. team of collegiate players. The Dream Team reestablished American superiority in Barcelona in 1992. But the United States barely won Olympic gold in 2000 in Sydney, finished sixth in the world championship in 2002, lost three times in the 2004 Olympics and now has failed to win in the 2006 world championship.
The rest of the world isn't catching up. They've caught up. I think, in terms of international compe ion, they've passed us.
Please, I don't want to hear about how we could have won if we'd only had our best players. Two of the brightest men in the basketball community, Jerry Colangelo and Mike Krzyzewski, led the effort that put together this team. Don't tell me we lost because Tim Duncan wasn't there, because Duncan was there in Athens two years ago when the United States lost. Don't tell me "Well, Allen Iverson wasn't there," because A.I. was there two years ago with Duncan when the United States lost those three games. Don't tell me that Paul Pierce and Tracy McGrady would have made all the difference because they could have busted those zone defenses Americans struggle with, because Pierce and McGrady were on the world championship team four years ago when the U.S. team finished sixth.
This team had access to all the shooters and role players in America, and one of the great coaches in the history of modern basketball -- Coach K -- and lost. Why? Because we're not as good, not in this international format, anyway. But more than anything we lose these most recent affairs because we look down our nose at the compe ion, which is going to land us in the same position in 2008 in Beijing if we don't wise up.
The game has changed. Much of it has been given over at the grassroots level to the forces of AAU, hip-hop and video game nonsense, where the emphasis has switched from learning how to play fundamentally to embarrassing the opponent in any way imaginable and posing while doing so. Combine this new at ude with the traditional arrogance from people nearing age 60 who grew up without ever seeing the United States challenged other than in '72, and we've got just about every basketball demographic covered in hubris.
It's a cultural condition that afflicts us: If we lose, it must be our own fault because, well, just look at you.
And it's a racial condition as well. We -- and by "we" I mean Americans of all colors -- have conditioned ourselves to look at European teams specifically and dismiss them out of hand because they're white. Or we think they're white. And of course, Americans have led the world in telling folks that white men can't jump, though amazingly some of those Greek kids apparently didn't accept our premise. I never thought this U.S. team was going to beat Spain or Argentina but it didn't even get to that.
What's sure to happen now is that we'll start to pick apart Team USA, and I will admit that I don't understand how we continue to go from one compe ion to the next without multiple pure shooters. Will we at some point stop paying lip service to having shooters and actually put some pure shooters on the team?
Still, there's no sense in picking apart the players on the team. USA Basketball picked the right team for the most part, though cutting veteran defender, three-point shooter and calming influence Bruce Bowen seemed regrettable to me the moment he was let go. And who in his right mind would question selecting Krzyzewski to coach the team? In fact, look at the men whose teams have lost in international play the last 19 years. Denny Crum (1987 Pan American Games) won two NCAA championships. John Thompson ('88 Seoul Olympics) won an NCAA championship. George Karl (2002 World Championship) might not have won a championship, but only a fool would suggest he's not a fine coach. Larry Brown (2004 Olympics) has won championships in college and the NBA. And Coach K has won three NCAA championships.
You want to argue with the selection of coaches? These men are or were great coaches. International teams (particularly in Europe and South America) studied at the feet of those coaches in clinics and compe ions. And they taught the American game to their European, South American, Asian and African players.
Now those players play this particular brand of basketball -- one not controlled by our slash-and-slam style that's grown so tiresome -- better than we do. The question now, as we look to the Olympic Games of 2008, is whether we'll spend the next two years making excuses or taking a good look at the growing number of teams internationally who play at least as well as we do, and increasingly better.
© 2006 The Washington Post Company
The world hasn't caught up. The world puts together teams while USA Basketball puts together jersey sales.And, for once, can you admit a defeat ? 2002, 2004, 2006 and counting... Those are not accidents... The world catched up... Back then the FIBA's rules where not a problem for the great NBAers but, obviously, the world took the challenge. Period.
The verdict 4-1-4.... FIBA and NBA should adopt rules from each other....
In your opinion ofcourse
Just trying to take the best from both worlds...
Right, right...
Team USA lost but that's meaningless. Only wins have a meaning for Team USA... Everything else can be explained (coach, players, rules, refs, ball, injuries, food, weather and, especialy, arrogance). USA should know... They lived it already with the NHL...
Well you know - I think the NBA has got better rules. The problem right now is with this "new ones". LImiting the contact. But all in all this rule had to be introduce to the game because the players now are more athletic and are based on power. Take a look at the '80 games. It was tough but not brutal. That's why they've changd the rules (in 2000?) to open up the offense. What could be done? Mario Elie once said that they should widen the floor because of physical and atletic players. They need more space.
Well we have more space in NBA right now. 1. rules, 2. 3-pt line. The basketball would die without that line.
We have more indywidal playes in NBA, and it's mostly about the marketing. Like someone said on players you can make more money then on a team. That is true. And who do not like acrobatic slamdunks? Something that DrJ awed the americans, and then MJ awed the world.
It is more interesting to the massess then a great team play without "fireworks" like it is in Europe.
But we can choose what we like to see. we have so many teams in NBA and the Worls that it is not a problem for the fans. Although the problem could be in that that NBA has the best players (big %). How to show their skills? How we want to see them? Do we want jumpshots or penetrations? The best bball players.
I do not know bout you, I love team play. And spurs can play that way.
The zone. In NBA there is zone, but realy we haven't seen great zone in NBA and the players are choosing to play an iso. Like it was in '90. Take a look at Cleveland. It's all LeBron. Well when was Hughes then they could play something troghetgher. But the whole concept is on LeBron (sometimes they passes inside to Z.
I like the mixed up defenses. 2-3, 3-2, indywidual, with preasure etc. (Detroit was fantastic in closing the 3-pt line).
Ohh sorry for that story
Exactly. Other country's FIBA programs >>>>>> USA Barfball. I really think the USA would do MUCH better if they went back to the college kids and bootcamp.
One would argue that spacing the floor is one of the reasons of NBA's ball regression... Space (and defensive rules) leads to isolation and/or h2h as legit offensive solutions that, in turns, leads to the death of the game...
My opinion at least.
Great article above by the way and humble on top of it... So rare...
>> "I really think the USA would do MUCH better if they went back to the college kids and bootcamp"
This one is just amazing... NCAA players would be crushed even by second grade national teams... Crushed... Physically, vice, game comprehension, fundamentals...
Last edited by SMLT; 09-02-2006 at 12:33 PM.
My opinion :
1. Don't forget that defenders can stay more than 3 second far from an opponent in the paint with FIBA rules. NBA rules space the floor more than FIBA rules. BTW, I don't like the 3 second in defense NBA rule.
2. I think that every competetion should have the same rules, The NBA line is too far for youth players but I agree that the FIBA line is too close. A 3 point line between both is maybe the best solution.
3. Agree.
4. Agree.
5. 48min/6foul = 1 foul allowed per 8min, 40min/5foul = 1 foul allowed per 8min. If you decide to play 48 min, 6 fouls is the good solution.
6. We will see what will happen with the new NBA ball but the new NBA ball is quite close to the FIBA ball.
7. Agree and disagree. The fact that you can't play the inbound pass from the opposite half court in crunch time with FIBA rules sucks.
8. What will NBA teams say if their players plays a WC with 20 games ?
9. Agree even if I hate that all stars get calls way more easily than other players in nba.
The NBA could put up any of its championship winning teams and win every game by 20 points.
The problem is USA basketball is still stuck on stupid. They try to put together teams based on jersey sales and who has the most valuable basketball card instead of putting together a true team.
I don't get the NHL comparison, Canada has always been better at hockey than anything America could put together. Same for the Russians. That's not a surprise. If you're going to make an argument, at least bring a decent take.
So we cant say our balls are bigger anymore?
2 things Bruno
1. 3pt line is where it should be in NBA. You do not want to have a traffic on the floor. Remember the 1996? And Shaq 3pointer (was it 96?). To me that kind of spaceing is important and do not allowe the players who cannot hit from beyond the line to "take a chance"
2. The defensive 3 seconds to me is a good decision. It ofcourse kills some of the zone but allowe players going to the baseline more and that's good.
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