Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 181
  1. #51
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Post Count
    37,751
    and leaves out the Repug events
    I may have missed this part. Link?

  2. #52
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Post Count
    26,781
    Anybody else recall sitting Republican Congresspeople, on official Congressional letterhead, sending CBS a cease and desist or else letter over the Reagan mini-series? I don't.

    September 7, 2006

    Mr. Robert A. Iger
    President and CEO
    The Walt Disney Company
    500 South Buena Vista Street
    Burbank CA 91521

    Dear Mr. Iger,

    We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of The Path to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports from experts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and serious inaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about the tragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, the manner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertised suggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major and well respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancel this broadcast to cease Disney’s plans to use it as a teaching tool in schools across America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed and factually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be a gross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, to your shareholders, and to the nation.

    The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcast license predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principle obligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest. Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty of broadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an open and accurate discussion of political ideas and events.

    Disney and ABC claim this program to be based on the 9/11 Commission Report and are using that assertion as part of the promotional campaign for it. The 9/11 Commission is the most respected American authority on the 9/11 attacks, and association with it carries a special responsibility. Indeed, the very events themselves on 9/11, so tragic as they were, demand extreme care by any who attempt to use those events as part of an entertainment or educational program. To quote Steve McPhereson, president of ABC Entertainment, “When you take on the responsibility of telling the story behind such an important event, it is absolutely critical that you get it right.”

    Unfortunately, it appears Disney and ABC got it totally wrong.

    Despite claims by your network’s representatives that The Path to 9/11 is based on the report of the 9/11 Commission, 9/11 Commissioners themselves, as well as other experts on the issues, disagree.

    Richard Ben-Veniste, speaking for himself and fellow 9/11 Commissioners who recently viewed the program, said, “As we were watching, we were trying to think how they could have misinterpreted the 9/11 Commission’s findings the way that they had.” [“9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,” New York Times, September 6, 2006]

    Richard Clarke, the former counter-terrorism czar, and a national security advisor to ABC has described the program as “deeply flawed” and said of the program’s depiction of a Clinton official hanging up on an intelligence agent, “It’s 180 degrees from what happened.” [“9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,” New York Times, September 6, 2006]

    Reports suggest that an FBI agent who worked on 9/11 and served as a consultant to ABC on this program quit halfway through because, “he thought they were making things up.” [MSNBC, September 7, 2006]

    Even Thomas Kean, who serves as a paid consultant to the miniseries, has admitted that scenes in the film are fictionalized. [“9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,” New York Times, September 6, 2006]

    That Disney would seek to broadcast an admittedly and proven false recounting of the events of 9/11 raises serious questions about the motivations of its creators and those who approved the deeply flawed program. Finally, that Disney plans to air commercial-free a program that reportedly cost it $40 million to produce serves to add fuel to these concerns.

    These concerns are made all the more pressing by the political leaning of and the public statements made by the writer/producer of this miniseries, Mr. Cyrus Nowrasteh, in promoting this miniseries across conservative blogs and talk shows.

    Frankly, that ABC and Disney would consider airing a program that could be construed as right-wing political propaganda on such a grave and important event involving the security of our nation is a discredit both to the Disney brand and to the legacy of honesty built at ABC by honorable individuals from David Brinkley to Peter Jennings. Furthermore, that Disney would seek to use Scholastic to promote this misguided programming to American children as a subs ute for factual information is a disgrace.

    As 9/11 Commission member Jamie Gorelick said, “It is critically important to the safety of our nation that our citizens, and particularly our school children, understand what actually happened and why – so that we can proceed from a common understanding of what went wrong and act with unity to make our country safer.”

    Should Disney allow this programming to proceed as planned, the factual record, millions of viewers, countless schoolchildren, and the reputation of Disney as a corporation worthy of the trust of the American people and the United States Congress will be deeply damaged. We urge you, after full consideration of the facts, to uphold your responsibilities as a respected member of American society and as a beneficiary of the free use of the public airwaves to cancel this factually inaccurate and deeply misguided program. We look forward to hearing back from you soon.

    Sincerely,

    Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid
    Assistant Democratic Leader Durbin
    Senator Debbie Stabenow
    Senator Charles Schumer
    Senator Byron Dorgan
    That highlighted part could be construed as a threat, if you ask me.

    Mr. Robert A. Iger
    President and CEO
    The Walt Disney Company

    Dear Mr. Iger:

    We are advised that ABC is scheduled to air a two-part mini-series en led "The Path to 9/11" on September 10 and September 11. While we have not yet seen this program, news reports raise serious questions about its accuracy. Therefore, we request that the inaccuracies described herein be addressed immediately and that the program be thoroughly reviewed and revised for accuracy before it airs.

    Among our concerns about the program are the following: first, it reportedly contains a scene in which Sandy Berger, the National Security Adviser to President Bill Clinton, declines to give Central Intelligence Agency operatives the authority to capture or kill Osama Bin Laden, and in which those operatives are outside a house where Bin Laden is located. This account has been expressly contradicted by Richard Clarke, a high-ranking counterterrorism official in both the Clinton and Bush Administrations.

    Second, the film reportedly contains a scene in which the Central Intelligence Agency declines to share information about the 9/11 hijackers with the FBI and ascribes that failure to the so-called "wall," limiting information sharing by the Department of Justice in certain cir stances, and established by the Department of Justice in an internal memorandum.

    This scene is puzzling at best, and inaccurate at worst. According to a Republican Member of the 9/11 Commission, former Senator Slade Gorton, the "Department of Justice guidelines at issue were internal to the Justice Department and were not even sent to any other agency. The guidelines had no effect on the Department of Defense and certainly did not prohibit it from communicating with the FBI, the CIA or anyone else."

    These two examples alone create substantial doubt about the overall accuracy of this program. September 11th is a day of mourning and remembrance for every American. We do not believe that it is appropriate for it to be tainted by false assertions of blame or partisan spin.

    To avoid that occurrence, we urge you to review this film and correct these and other inaccuracies. We appreciate your prompt attention and reply to this time sensitive matter.

    Sincerely,



    Representatives John Conyers, Jr., John Dingell, Jane Harman, Louise Slaughter
    Hey did anybody else notice that the President has asked for air time on Monday -- right smack dab at the exciting conclusion of this docudrama?

    I question the timing. I think Rove is behind it all. At the very least, I think Karl Rove is laughing his ass off at the prize Democrats have handed Republicans in the run-up to November.
    Last edited by Yonivore; 09-08-2006 at 09:41 AM.

  3. #53
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Post Count
    15,842
    ABC hasn't given me tape, yet, but since Rush hasn't ed about the Repugs being blamed for the WTC attack, I'm assuming, with near cer ude, such "Repug events" are not in the tape. ie, the Repugs will be white-washed of all blame, while the Dems will be slimed with 100% culpability, as if Karl Rove, head, and Yonivore co-wrote the script to show that the Repugs are Supreme Defenders of the USA, and the Dems are gay wimps.

  4. #54
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Post Count
    37,751
    In other words, you were talking out of your ass.

    Everything I've read says the movie covers the failures of both administrations.

  5. #55
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Post Count
    37,751
    It's a lot easier for Rush Limbaugh to mock Democrats complaining about the movie than it is for him to deny culpability on the part of the Bush Administration for 9/11. Strategic too... this way, it looks like only one group of partisan sheep believes their side bears no responsibility for the miscalculations leading up to 9/11. (Of course, I only say this under the assumption that you're correct about what Rush is saying, since I don't listen to him... and I have a hard time believing you do either... I would think it would cause your head to explode in a fit of incoherant rage.)

    You guys are nice fishies.

  6. #56
    Veteran
    My Team
    Denver Nuggets
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Post Count
    12,134
    I think we should wait for the movie to be aired before reserving judgment on it.

  7. #57
    Veteran
    My Team
    Denver Nuggets
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Post Count
    12,134
    Although I have no intentions of watching it, so I'll just let you guys tell me how it went.

  8. #58
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Post Count
    11,409
    Anybody else recall sitting Republican Congresspeople, on official Congressional letterhead, sending CBS a cease and desist or else letter over the Reagan mini-series? I don't.



    That highlighted part could be construed as a threat, if you ask me.


    Hey did anybody else notice that the President has asked for air time on Monday -- right smack dab at the exciting conclusion of this docudrama?

    I question the timing. I think Rove is behind it all. At the very least, I think Karl Rove is laughing his ass off at the prize Democrats have handed Republicans in the run-up to November.



    and what 'gift' would that be? Hey wait Rove plays politics with the war? No, not Karl..



    my hope is that the Public gets a full view of this story..

    Senate panel to issue Iraq intel report By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer
    1 hour, 20 minutes ago



    WASHINGTON - A Senate analysis of intelligence-gathering activities leading up to the invasion of Iraq is certain to rekindle an election-year debate on the justification of going to war.

    ADVERTISEMENT




    The top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, said the report will confirm that "the Bush administration's case for war in Iraq was fundamentally misleading."

    The report to be released by the committee Friday focuses on two much-studied issues: the influence of the anti-Saddam exile group Iraqi National Congress in shaping U.S. intelligence estimates, and a comparison of prewar estimates and postwar findings about Iraq's weapons programs and links to terrorism.

    But its release comes at a time when President Bush is speaking out on the importance of victory in Iraq to the war on terrorism, and Democrats are trying to recapture control of Congress by emphasizing the failings of the president's Iraq policy.

    Republicans on the committee declined comment on the report Thursday, but they were expected to play down the role of the Iraqi National Congress and its leader, Ahmed Chalabi, in shaping U.S. policy toward Saddam Hussein and the decision to go to war in March 2003.

    The intelligence committee issued a portion of its analysis, labeled Phase I, on prewar intelligence shortcomings in July 2004. But concluding work on Phase II of the study has been more problematic, because of partisan divisions over how senior policymakers used intelligence in arguing for the need to drive Saddam from power.

    Last November, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada forced the Senate into a rare closed-door session to discuss the delay in coming out with the new data.

    The 400-page report to be released Friday covers only two of the five topics outlined under Phase II. Much of the information — on the intelligence supplied by the INC and Chalabi and the overestimation of Saddam's WMD threat — has been do ented in numerous studies.

    But Rockefeller said the report would show how the "administration pursued a deceptive strategy, abusing intelligence reporting that the intelligence community had already warned was uncorroborated, unreliable and in some critical cir stances fabricated."

    Rockefeller said a third segment, on the prewar intelligence assessment of postwar Iraq, could be issued later this month. But there was no set date for issuing the last two parts of Phase II, including a look at the politically divisive issue of whether policymakers manipulated intelligence reports to set the stage for war.

    "We continue our work on the remaining part of our Phase II inquiry," said Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts, R-Kan

  9. #59
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Post Count
    26,781
    [/B]and what 'gift' would that be? Hey wait Rove plays politics with the war? No, not Karl..
    Wow, you understand sarcasm real well...NOT.

    This was an unsolicited gift frrom the left. They've shot themselves in the foot yet again.

  10. #60
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Post Count
    11,409
    Wow, you understand sarcasm real well...NOT.

    This was an unsolicited gift frrom the left. They've shot themselves in the foot yet again.

    who on the 'left'? I want to find out who he/she is because they show up alot in Republican arguments..

  11. #61
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Post Count
    26,781
    who on the 'left'? I want to find out who he/she is because they show up alot in Republican arguments..
    Well, in this case it is those on the left that wrote official letters from Congress threatening ABC with FCC action if they didn't pull the miniseries.

    Those are the "left" that shot themselves in the foot this time.

    But, about your concern over the recently-released Intelligence reports. I too am anxious to read them but, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in Rockefeller's characterization of what's in them.

    And, on the subject of war-in-Iraq justification, as news spreads of the latest tape from al Qaeda in Iraq's new leader, Abu Hamza al-Muhajir (aka Abu Ayyub al-Masri), it is worth remembering that he set up shop in Baghdad by the middle of 2002.

    That is, he set up his operations at the heart of Saddam's neo-Stalinist state months prior to the U.S. led invasion.

    This doesn't mean anything, of course.

  12. #62
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Post Count
    15,842
    Why isn't Rush whining about fictionalized Repug events that culpabalize the Repugs?

    Perhaps there aren't any?

    Or has ABC fictionalized Dem event to culpabalize the Dems in the interest of balancing culpability, but ABC has put in do ented Repug events like dubya in Crawford in Aug 01 accepting a report from an intelligence agent and saying "ok, you've covered your ass, thanks" that the Repugs can't complain about?

    I can talk out my ass all I want, nobody's gonna die from it.

    I have more evidence and justification for the Repug being lying, venal, murderous mother ers than WHIG had for Saddam WMD, Saddam-WTC connection, and Saddam-terrorism.

    When WHIG talks out of its ass, the 10s of 1000s of innocent people and US military die.

  13. #63
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Post Count
    37,751
    You just repeated yourself and then changed the subject.

    Nice job, fishie.

  14. #64
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Post Count
    26,781
    Just how inaccurate is the docudrama? I think the Clintonistas are more worried about the docudrama getting it right than getting it wrong.


    Osama bin Laden: missed opportunities

    NBC News has obtained, exclusively, extraordinary secret video, shot by the U.S. government. It illustrates an enormous opportunity the Clinton administration had to kill or capture bin Laden. Critics call it a missed opportunity.

    In the fall of 2000, in Afghanistan, unmanned, unarmed spy planes called Predators flew over known al-Qaida training camps. The pictures that were transmitted live to CIA headquarters show al-Qaida terrorists firing at targets, conducting military drills and then scattering on cue through the desert.

    Also, that fall, the Predator captured even more extraordinary pictures — a tall figure in flowing white robes. Many intelligence analysts believed then and now it is bin Laden.

    Why does U.S. intelligence believe it was bin Laden? NBC showed the video to William Arkin, a former intelligence officer and now military analyst for NBC. “You see a tall man…. You see him surrounded by or at least protected by a group of guards.”

    Bin Laden is 6 foot 5. The man in the video clearly towers over those around him and seems to be treated with great deference.


    Bin Laden, in white, stands outside in his compound.
    More...

    Gary Schroen, a former CIA station chief in Pakistan, says the White House required the CIA to attempt to capture bin Laden alive, rather than kill him.

    What impact did the wording of the orders have on the CIA’s ability to get bin Laden? “It reduced the odds from, say, a 50 percent chance down to, say, 25 percent chance that we were going to be able to get him,” said Schroen.

    A Democratic member of the 9/11 commission says there was a larger issue: The Clinton administration treated bin Laden as a law enforcement problem.

  15. #65
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Post Count
    11,409
    Just how inaccurate is the docudrama? I think the Clintonistas are more worried about the docudrama getting it right than getting it wrong.


    so what had he done to be killed at the time clinton had the opportunity? All i hear from the GOP talking points is that "Clinton knew he, Osama,wanted to do us harm so he should have killed him..Well if we were to now apply that logic to today's climate we should be out assassinating people all over the world because God knows many people want to do harm to us.. this is what I am tlalking about Yoni using your common sense. answer my question. what had osama done at the point when clinton had the opportunity to kill him? nothing. to look back and arm chair QB is ridiculous..

  16. #66
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Post Count
    26,781
    so what had he done to be killed at the time clinton had the opportunity?
    I guess the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and the bombings of our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya weren't enough.

    But, you're changing the discussion yet again. We're not talking about what bin Laden did to deserve being killed but about the accuracy of the portrayal of Clinton passing up opportunities to do so.

    In fact, even the Democrats decrying the docudrama aren't making this claim. They're just flat out saying that this is a lie, that the Clinton administration didn't pass up opportunities to kill or capture bin Laden. The factual record tends to disagree with this viewpoint.

    All i hear from the GOP talking points is that "Clinton knew he, Osama,wanted to do us harm so he should have killed him..
    Osama had done more than just wanted to do us harm.

    Well if we were to now apply that logic to today's climate we should be out assassinating people all over the world because God knows many people want to do harm to us..
    Most of us refer to this action as the global war on terrorism and don't characterize our efforts to kill as many terrorists as possible as "assassinating people."

    this is what I am tlalking about Yoni using your common sense. answer my question. what had osama done at the point when clinton had the opportunity to kill him? nothing. to look back and arm chair QB is ridiculous..
    I see. You are well informed...how could I ever doubt you had a grasp on the recent history of al Qaeda or Osama bin Laden.

    Looking at the big picture, though, it's a little hard to see what the left are complaining about. I don't intend to see the miniseries, but we've all heard it doesn't portray the Clinton administration as having taken very effective action against the growing threat from Islamic terrorists. What I don't understand is how the Democrats think they can rewrite history to challenge that characterization.

    There is no doubt about the fact that the terrorist menace grew and became increasingly obvious during the Clinton administration. To note just a few highlights:

    * January 25, 1993: Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, fired an AK-47 into cars waiting at a stoplight in front of the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters in Virginia, killing two CIA employees.

    * February 26, 1993: Islamic terrorists try to bring down the World Trade Center with car bombs. They failed to destroy the buildings, but killed 6 and injured over 1000 people.

    * March 12, 1993: Car bombings in Mumbai, India leave 257 dead and 1,400 others injured.

    * July 18, 1994: Bombing of Jewish Center in Buenos Aires, Argentina, kills 86 and wounds 300. The bombing is generally attributed to Hezbollah acting on behalf of Iran.

    * July 19, 1994: Alas Chiricanas Flight 00901 is bombed, killing 21. Generally attributed to Hezbollah.

    * July 26, 1994: The Israeli Embassy is attacked in London, and a Jewish charity is also car-bombed, wounding 20. The attacks are attributed to Hezbollah.

    * December 11, 1994: A bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines Flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman. It develops that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb to test it for the larger terrorist attack he is planning.

    * December 24, 1994: In a preview of September 11, Air France Flight 8969 is hijacked by Islamic terrorists who planned to crash the plane in Paris.

    * January 6, 1995: Operation Bojinka, an Islamist plot to bomb 11 U.S. airliners over the Pacific Ocean, is discovered on a laptop computer in a Manila, Philippines apartment by authorities after a fire occurred in the apartment. Noted terrorists including Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed are involved in the plot.

    * June 14—June 19, 1995: The Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis, in which 105 civilians and 25 Russian troops were killed following an attack by Chechan Islamists.

    * July—October, 1995: Bombings in France by Islamic terrorists led by Khaled Kelkal kill eight and injure more than 100.

    * November 13, 1995: Bombing of OPM-SANG building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills 7

    * November 19, 1995: Bombing of Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan kills 19.

    * January 1996: In Kizlyar, 350 Chechen Islamists took 3,000 hostages in a hospital. The attempt to free them killed 65 civilians and soldiers.

    * February 25 - March 4, 1996: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within 10 days.

    * June 11, 1996: A bomb explodes on a train traveling on the Serpukhovsko-Timiryazevskaya Line of the Moscow Metro, killing four and unjuring at least 12.

    * June 25, 1996: The Khobar Towers bombing, carried out by Hezbollah with Iranian support. Nineteen U.S. servicemen were killed and 372 wounded.

    * February 24, 1997: An armed man opens fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, United States, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from several countries. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claims this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine".

    * November 17, 1997: Massacre in Luxor, Egypt, in which Islamist gunmen attack tourists, killing 62 people.

    * January 1998: Wandhama Massacre - 24 Kashmiri Pandits are massacred by Pakistan-backed Islamists in the city of Wandhama in Indian-controlled Kashmir.

    * February 14, 1998: Bombings by Islamic Jihadi groups at an election rally in the Indian city of Coimbatore kill about 60 people.

    * August 7, 1998: Al Qaeda bombs U.S. embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000.

    * August 31 – September 22, 1998: Russian apartment bombings kill about 300 people, leading Russia into Second Chechen War.

    * December 1998: Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb American and Israeli tourists in Jordan, and arrest 28 suspects as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots.

    * December 14, 1998: Ahmed Ressam is arrested on the United States–Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington; he confessed to planning to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots.

    * December 24, 1998: Indian Airlines Flight 814 from Kathmandu, Nepal to Delhi, India is hijacked by Islamic terrorists. One passenger is killed and some hostages are released. After negotiations between the Taliban and the Indian government, the last of the remaining hostages on board Flight 814 are released in exchange for release of 4 terrorists.

    * January 2000: The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks.

    * August 8, 2000: A bomb exploded at an underpass in Pushkin Square in Moscow, killing 11 people and wounding more than 90.

    * August 17, 2000: Two bombs exploded in a shopping center in Riga, Latvia, injuring 35 people.

    * October 12, 2000: AL Qaeda bombs USS Cole with explosive-laden speedboat, killing 17 US sailors and wounding 40, off the port coast of Aden, Yemen.

    Between 1993 and 2000, everyone who was paying any attention -- and had any common sense at all -- knew that the threat from Islamic terrorism was grave and getting worse. The catastrophic losses that occurred on Septimeber 11, 2001, could just as easily have happened in 1993, when the first plot to destroy the World Trade Center was carried off successfully, but the terrorists had miscalculated the effect of their explosives, or in 1995, when the plot to destroy eleven American airplanes in flight was thwarted by counter-intelligence work in the Philippines. What did the Clinton administration do in response to this grave threat? Essentially nothing. Worse, Clinton tried to sweep the problem under the rug, lest it disrupt the surface calm and prosperity for which he was eager to claim credit.

    However Path to 9/11 portrays the Clinton administration, it can be no worse than the reality.
    Last edited by Yonivore; 09-08-2006 at 11:28 AM.

  17. #67
    The Great Eight Ocotillo's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Post Count
    4,029
    the plot thickens

    Word is ABC may raise the white flag and not run the smear altogether.

  18. #68
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Post Count
    26,781
    the plot thickens

    Word is ABC may raise the white flag and not run the smear altogether.
    Perfect! -- Karl Rove

    In the words of Tom Daschle when the Reagan docudrama was pulled by CBS, "Appalling!"

  19. #69
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Post Count
    11,409
    I guess the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and the bombings of our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya weren't enough.

    But, you're changing the discussion yet again. We're not talking about what bin Laden did to deserve being killed but about the accuracy of the portrayal of Clinton passing up opportunities to do so.

    In fact, even the Democrats decrying the docudrama aren't making this claim. They're just flat out saying that this is a lie, that the Clinton administration didn't pass up opportunities to kill or capture bin Laden. The factual record tends to disagree with this viewpoint.


    Osama had done more than just wanted to do us harm.


    Most of us refer to this action as the global war on terrorism and don't characterize our efforts to kill as many terrorists as possible as "assassinating people."


    I see. You are well informed...how could I ever doubt you had a grasp on the recent history of al Qaeda or Osama bin Laden.

    Looking at the big picture, though, it's a little hard to see what the left are complaining about. I don't intend to see the miniseries, but we've all heard it doesn't portray the Clinton administration as having taken very effective action against the growing threat from Islamic terrorists. What I don't understand is how the Democrats think they can rewrite history to challenge that characterization.

    There is no doubt about the fact that the terrorist menace grew and became increasingly obvious during the Clinton administration. To note just a few highlights:

    * January 25, 1993: Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, fired an AK-47 into cars waiting at a stoplight in front of the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters in Virginia, killing two CIA employees.

    * February 26, 1993: Islamic terrorists try to bring down the World Trade Center with car bombs. They failed to destroy the buildings, but killed 6 and injured over 1000 people.

    * March 12, 1993: Car bombings in Mumbai, India leave 257 dead and 1,400 others injured.

    * July 18, 1994: Bombing of Jewish Center in Buenos Aires, Argentina, kills 86 and wounds 300. The bombing is generally attributed to Hezbollah acting on behalf of Iran.

    * July 19, 1994: Alas Chiricanas Flight 00901 is bombed, killing 21. Generally attributed to Hezbollah.

    * July 26, 1994: The Israeli Embassy is attacked in London, and a Jewish charity is also car-bombed, wounding 20. The attacks are attributed to Hezbollah.

    * December 11, 1994: A bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines Flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman. It develops that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb to test it for the larger terrorist attack he is planning.

    * December 24, 1994: In a preview of September 11, Air France Flight 8969 is hijacked by Islamic terrorists who planned to crash the plane in Paris.

    * January 6, 1995: Operation Bojinka, an Islamist plot to bomb 11 U.S. airliners over the Pacific Ocean, is discovered on a laptop computer in a Manila, Philippines apartment by authorities after a fire occurred in the apartment. Noted terrorists including Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed are involved in the plot.

    * June 14—June 19, 1995: The Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis, in which 105 civilians and 25 Russian troops were killed following an attack by Chechan Islamists.

    * July—October, 1995: Bombings in France by Islamic terrorists led by Khaled Kelkal kill eight and injure more than 100.

    * November 13, 1995: Bombing of OPM-SANG building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills 7

    * November 19, 1995: Bombing of Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan kills 19.

    * January 1996: In Kizlyar, 350 Chechen Islamists took 3,000 hostages in a hospital. The attempt to free them killed 65 civilians and soldiers.

    * February 25 - March 4, 1996: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within 10 days.

    * June 11, 1996: A bomb explodes on a train traveling on the Serpukhovsko-Timiryazevskaya Line of the Moscow Metro, killing four and unjuring at least 12.

    * June 25, 1996: The Khobar Towers bombing, carried out by Hezbollah with Iranian support. Nineteen U.S. servicemen were killed and 372 wounded.

    * February 24, 1997: An armed man opens fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, United States, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from several countries. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claims this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine".

    * November 17, 1997: Massacre in Luxor, Egypt, in which Islamist gunmen attack tourists, killing 62 people.

    * January 1998: Wandhama Massacre - 24 Kashmiri Pandits are massacred by Pakistan-backed Islamists in the city of Wandhama in Indian-controlled Kashmir.

    * February 14, 1998: Bombings by Islamic Jihadi groups at an election rally in the Indian city of Coimbatore kill about 60 people.

    * August 7, 1998: Al Qaeda bombs U.S. embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000.

    * August 31 – September 22, 1998: Russian apartment bombings kill about 300 people, leading Russia into Second Chechen War.

    * December 1998: Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb American and Israeli tourists in Jordan, and arrest 28 suspects as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots.

    * December 14, 1998: Ahmed Ressam is arrested on the United States–Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington; he confessed to planning to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots.

    * December 24, 1998: Indian Airlines Flight 814 from Kathmandu, Nepal to Delhi, India is hijacked by Islamic terrorists. One passenger is killed and some hostages are released. After negotiations between the Taliban and the Indian government, the last of the remaining hostages on board Flight 814 are released in exchange for release of 4 terrorists.

    * January 2000: The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks.

    * August 8, 2000: A bomb exploded at an underpass in Pushkin Square in Moscow, killing 11 people and wounding more than 90.

    * August 17, 2000: Two bombs exploded in a shopping center in Riga, Latvia, injuring 35 people.

    * October 12, 2000: AL Qaeda bombs USS Cole with explosive-laden speedboat, killing 17 US sailors and wounding 40, off the port coast of Aden, Yemen.

    Between 1993 and 2000, everyone who was paying any attention -- and had any common sense at all -- knew that the threat from Islamic terrorism was grave and getting worse. The catastrophic losses that occurred on Septimeber 11, 2001, could just as easily have happened in 1993, when the first plot to destroy the World Trade Center was carried off successfully, but the terrorists had miscalculated the effect of their explosives, or in 1995, when the plot to destroy eleven American airplanes in flight was thwarted by counter-intelligence work in the Philippines. What did the Clinton administration do in response to this grave threat? Essentially nothing. Worse, Clinton tried to sweep the problem under the rug, lest it disrupt the surface calm and prosperity for which he was eager to claim credit.

    However Path to 9/11 portrays the Clinton administration, it can be no worse than the reality.

    Clinton caught the 93 WTC bombers. Bush invaded Iraq... Common sense Yoni..


    Please save the GOP talking point response "well Clinton never cught the mastermind " crap. Bush recently said he doesn't think about the mastermind of 9/11.. common sense..

    I also notice you pick random acts of violene perpetrated by muslims world wide and attribute them to Clinton not doing anything? What was he supposed to do about the chechens? the bombings in India?
    I noice only a couple of those incedents were attributed to Al-Qaeda for whom I thought you said Clinton did nothing about.

    We both understand that there are 200 million muslims who want to kill us so... so again are we going to kill all of them? Invade other muslim countries to win their hearts and minds? You know for once I would love to see something original from you..something in your own worda rather tha cutting and pasting.. either your stupid or your lazy..which is it?

  20. #70
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Post Count
    26,781
    Clinton caught the 93 WTC bombers.
    The 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center was an al Qaeda (the head of which was Osama bin Laden) operation just as were the bombings of our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.

    I also notice you pick random acts of vioolnce worl wide and attribute them to AL-Qaieda and Osama...
    All acts of Islamo-fascism pointing to a problem Clinton ignored. There is nothing random about these acts of violence...except for Clinton's response.

  21. #71
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Post Count
    11,409
    The 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center was an al Qaeda (the head of which was Osama bin Laden) operation just as were the bombings of our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.


    All acts of Islamo-fascism pointing to a problem Clinton ignored. There is nothing random about these acts of violence...except for Clinton's response.

    so now I am led to believe that Clinton did nothing about things happening in other countries. he did nothing in the Russian-Chechen civil war... I always thought that conservatives did not want to be the world's policemen or nation builders..


    Let me guess Yoni Clinton should have invaded Iraq..


    I must also ad Clinton was/is in a no win situation with conservatives like Yoni.. He is ridiculed for only bombing an 'aspirin' factory because he wanted to take heat off of himself according to his detractors (he did something when cons say he did not).. so he did strike Saddam but was ridiculed for dong it for the wrong reasons...
    Last edited by George Gervin's Afro; 09-08-2006 at 12:41 PM.

  22. #72
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Post Count
    26,781
    so now I am led to believe that Clinton did nothing about things happening in other countries. he did nothing in the Russian-Chechen civil war... I always thought that conservatives did not want to be the world's policemen or nation builders..
    Yep, you're led to believe that Clinton did nothing about global Islamo-facsist terrorism even as it was increasingly affecting the United States, both at home (1993 WTC bombing) and abroad (embassy bombings). That's exactly what you're led to believe.

    Of course, no one can make you drink the truth.

    Let me guess Yoni Clinton should have invaded Iraq..
    Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338). Look it up and, after reading the following, you tell me.

    "It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them. The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons. . . .

    "Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal"
    Was Clinton lying then?

    So, exactly what changed between this speech and 2003 to lead you to believe Saddam Hussein had complied with any of the more than 17 UNSC resolutions or that would cause you to change President Clinton's position on regime change?

    I can't think of anything.

  23. #73
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Post Count
    11,409
    Yep, you're led to believe that Clinton did nothing about global Islamo-facsist terrorism even as it was increasingly affecting the United States, both at home (1993 WTC bombing) and abroad (embassy bombings). That's exactly what you're led to believe.

    Of course, no one can make you drink the truth.

    Well Yoni you mentioned 20 or so other incidents so which is it all of them or the above mentioned?


    Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338). Look it up and, after reading the following, you tell me.


    Was Clinton lying then?

    So, exactly what changed between this speech and 2003 to lead you to believe Saddam Hussein had complied with any of the more than 17 UNSC resolutions or that would cause you to change President Clinton's position on regime change?

    I can't think of anything.

    Well we can only hope Bush and his cronies used more up to date intel than what Clinton had in 1998..of course after this speech the UN inspectors said saddam did not possess wmds.. I notice you never bring that up but I guess I wouldn't if I were you either. So please explain to me what Clinton could have done in the Russain -Chechen war? what could he have done about the bombings in other countries that did not involve our interest or people? I would suspect that this would have meant troops around the world.. starting military action worldwide..and we both know the in between being harrassed by the 'independent' council investigating everything under the sun he would have been unable to do anything without being obsgtructed by the GOP congress...no we know conservatives complain about a president being hamstrung by an opposition congress... unless it was Bill Clinton..

  24. #74
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Post Count
    11,409
    THE WHITE HOUSE

    Office of the Press Secretary
    FACT SHEET - Counter-Terrorism
    The White House's Position on Terrorism

    "To all my fellow Americans ... I say, one thing we owe those who have sacrificed is the duty to purge ourselves of the dark forces which gave rise to this evil. They are forces that threaten our common peace, our freedom, our way of life."

    President Bill Clinton
    State Fair Arena, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma April 23, 1995

    ISSUE:

    Terrorism threatens the security of Americans and our friends at home and the world over.

    ADMINISTRATION POSITION:

    Counter-terrorism is a top priority for the Clinton Administration as it has sought aggressively to track down and punish terrorists worldwide and to fight international crime to the fullest extent of the law.

    Criminal organizations increasingly operate across national boundaries with drug money and counterfeit currency funding their operations. President Clinton has ordered a number of actions to meet these growing threats including pressing for congressional legislation to increase our ability to fight terrorism and leading the Summit of the Peacemakers in Sharm-El-Sheikh, Egypt in March l996.

    ACCOMPLISHMENTS:

    Fighting Terrorism directed against Americans:

    Dogged and effective Justice Department, international, national and local law enforcement attention culminating in swift arrests following major terrorist incidents in Oklahoma City and at the World Trade Center in New York City. Broke up major terrorist attacks in New York City before they could be carried out at the United Nations and in the Holland Tunnel; and against U.S. commercial aircraft in the Pacific. Developed emergency rapid-response plan to deal with chemical and biological terrorism.

    Fighting Terrorism against our Friends Abroad:

    Following the tragic assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and terrorist bombings in Israel, President Clinton called for and co-chaired historic Summit of the Peacemakers in Egypt in March, l996, a gathering of 29 regional and world leaders to design and support new counter-terrorism initiatives and to further the Mid East Peace Process.

    Requested one hundred million dollars be provided by the United States to Israel for counter-terrorism equipment and training as well as emergency shipments of bomb detection equipment. Followed up the anti-terrorism Summit with a gathering of international counter-terrorism experts in Washington to pursue better cooperation and strengthened capabilities for controlling borders, stopping terrorist fundraising, and eliminating safe havens for terrorists through stronger laws and enforcement.

    Directed that new legislation include funds to provide increased U.S. training to help friendly governments fight terrorism around the globe.

    Extended economic sanctions against Iran and Sudan and held tight sanctions against Libya and Iraq for their support and sponsorship of terrorism.

    Legislative Response to Terrorism:

    Over one year ago President Clinton asked Congress for legislation to strengthen our ability to combat international terrorism. On April 24th the President signed S. 735, the ?An errorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996? into law. Congress included many of the Administration's proposals in their bill, giving our law enforcement officials tough new tools to stop terrorists before they strike, and to bring them to justice if they do. The legislation bans fundraising in the United States that supports terrorist organizations. It also allows U.S. officials to deport terrorists from American soil without being compelled by the terrorists to divulge classified information, and to bar terrorists from entering the United States in the first place.

    Nevertheless, as strong as the bill was, it should have been stronger. For example, President Clinton asked the Congress to give U.S. law enforcement increased wiretap authority in terrorism cases. But the Congress refused. After the President proposed that the Secretary of the Treasury consider the inclusion of taggants in explosive materials, so that bombs can be traced more easily to the bomb makers, the Congress exempted black and smokeless powder -- two of the most commonly used substances in improvised explosive devices.
    We hope that there will be an opportunity to revisit these and other issues, as well as some of the other proposals this Administration has made, but upon which the Congress refused to act. Repeatedly pressing for the U.S. Senate to outlaw poison gas once and for all by ratifying the Chemical Weapons Convention. Similarly, in October 1995 at The United Nations General Assembly urged other nations to ratify as well.

    Holding Terrorists Accountable:

    Ordered bombing of Iraqi military intelligence facility in wake of report that Iraqi terrorist attack was attempted against former President George Bush.

    Arrested and brought back to stand trial in the United States, terrorists hiding in Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines, Jordan and Egypt.


    Yoni he looks like he did do something..wow and all I had to do is google it..

    Oh I see the GOP congress did want to give Clinton more wiretap authority... gee seems to me the dems are doing the same thing and they are accused of being weak on defense..

  25. #75
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Post Count
    11,409
    On 26 February 1993, a car loaded with 1,200 pounds of explosives blew up in a parking garage under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring about a thousand others. The blast did not, as its planners intended, bring down the towers — that was finally accomplished by flying two hijacked airliners into the twin towers on the morning of 11 September 2001.
    Four followers of the Egyptian cleric Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman were captured, convicted of the World Trade Center bombing in March 1994, and sentenced to 240 years in prison each. The purported mastermind of the plot, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, was captured in 1995, convicted of the bombing in November 1997, and also sentenced to 240 years in prison. One additional suspect fled the U.S. and is believed to be living in Baghdad.

    You said Osama was the mastermind?

    On 13 November 1995, a bomb was set off in a van parked in front of an American-run military training center in the Saudi Arabian capital of Riyadh, killing five Americans and two Indians. Saudi Arabian authorities arrested four Saudi nationals whom they claim confessed to the bombings, but U.S. officials were denied permission to see or question the suspects before they were convicted and beheaded in May 1996.

    On 25 June 1996, a booby-trapped truck loaded with 5,000 pounds of explosives was exploded outside the Khobar Towers apartment complex which housed United States military personnel in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing nineteen Americans and wounding about three hundred others. Once again, the U.S. investigation was hampered by the refusal of Saudi officials to allow the FBI to question suspects.
    On 21 June 2001, just before the American statute of limitations would have expired, a federal grand jury in Alexandria, Virginia, indicted thirteen Saudis and an unidentified Lebanese chemist for the Khobar Towers bombing. The suspects remain in Saudi custody, beyond the reach of the American justice system. (Saudi Arabia has no extradition treaty with the U.S.)


    On 7 August 1998, powerful car bombs exploded minutes apart outside the United States embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 224 people and wounding about 5,000 others. Four participants with ties to Osama bin Laden were captured, convicted in U.S. federal court, and sentenced to life in prison without parole in October 2001. Fourteen other suspects indicted in the case remain at large, and three more are fighting extradition in London.
    On 12 October 2000, two suicide bombers detonated an explosives-laden skiff next to the USS Cole while it was refueling in Aden, Yemen, blasting a hole in the ship that killed 17 sailors and injured 37 others. No suspects have yet been arrested or indicted. The investigation has been hampered by the refusal of Yemini officials to allow FBI agents access to Yemeni nationals and other suspects in custody in Yemen.
    (The USS Cole bombing occurred one month before the 2000 presidential election, so even under the best of cir stances it was unlikely that the investigation could have been completed before the end of President Clinton's term of office three months later.)

    In August 1998, President Clinton ordered missile strikes against targets in Afghanistan in an effort to hit Osama bin Laden, who had been linked to the embassy bombings in Africa (and was later connected to the attack on the USS Cole). The missiles reportedly missed bin Laden by a few hours, and Clinton was widely criticized by many who claimed he had ordered the strikes primarily to draw attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. As John F. Harris wrote in The Washington Post:


    In August 1998, when [Clinton] ordered missile strikes in an effort to kill Osama bin Laden, there was widespread speculation — from such people as Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) — that he was acting precipitously to draw attention away from the Monica S. Lewinsky scandal, then at full boil. Some said he was mistaken for personalizing the terrorism struggle so much around bin Laden. And when he ordered the closing of Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House after domestic terrorism in Oklahoma City, some Republicans accused him of hysteria.
    . . . the federal budget on anti-terror activities tripled during Clinton's watch, to about $6.7 billion. After the effort to kill bin Laden with missiles in August 1998 failed — he had apparently left a training camp in Afghanistan a few hours earlier — recent news reports have detailed numerous other instances, as late as December 2000, when Clinton was on the verge of unleashing the military again. In each case, the White House chose not to act because of uncertainty that intelligence was good enough to find bin Laden, and concern that a failed attack would only enhance his stature in the Arab world.

    . . . people maintain Clinton should have adapted Bush's policy promising that regimes that harbor terrorism will be treated as severely as terrorists themselves, and threatening to evict the Taliban from power in Afghanistan unless leaders meet his demands to produce bin Laden and associates. But Clinton aides said such a policy — potentially involving a full-scale war in central Asia — was not plausible before politics the world over became transformed by one of history's most lethal acts of terrorism.

    Clinton's former national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger . . . said there [was] little prospect . . . that Pakistan would have helped the United States wage war against bin Laden or the Taliban in 1998, even after such outrages as the bombing of U.S. embassies overseas.



    here's more for you Yoni..I thought you checked both lib and consevrative blogs? seems to me this was easy to find..maybe you just didn't google it right..

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •