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I still haven't forgotten T-mac's 13 points in 35 seconds against the Spurs.. but I guess it was just tough luck
Bonzi scrapped the barrel last year playing to the upmost of his capabilities and he still couldn't sniff a max contract. What the makes you think he can play outstandingly enough to merit the 8 or 9 million he desires? Does Bonzi even think he can? What's his motivation?
I still haven't forgotten T-mac's 13 points in 35 seconds against the Spurs.. but I guess it was just tough luck
So Bonzi plays out of his mind for six games and that's what you use to judge his greatness? You should be a GM for a terrible NBA team.
So, you'd rather have the slightly better player in the regular season who basically disappears in the playoffs over a guy who was injured most of the regular season and had unimpressive regular season stats but when it's crunch time in the playoffs goes berzerk?
You should NOT be a GM for any NBA team.
Everyone goes through a hot streak and they have no control of when it happens. Bonzi was lucky to get hot when it meant the most. That doesn't mean he will continue to get hot during the playoffs. Billups is an example of a player that got hot against the spurs but didn't do this year in the playoffs.
Bonzi has had great playoffs series before, for example in 2003 against your Dallas Mavericks, where he dropped 19.0 ppg and held his own against a younger Michael Finley.
As for Chauncey not doing anything this year in the playoffs, he kept the Pistons in the Cavs series. And, he was the only guy playing in the first two games against the Heat. What are you watching?
And, look at Chauncey in 2002 with Minnesota when he as he was considered a journeyman back-up point guard at that point, he filled in for Terrell Brandon and put up 22 ppg, 6 apg, and 5 rpg.
Then the following year, he carried the Pistons passed Tracy McGrady and the Magic after being down 3-1 in that series, and even after he severely sprained his ankle, Chauncey dropped 28 pts to clinch the series.
In 2004, we all know what happened that led to Billups' Finals MVP.
And, last season, as you said, he was one of the few Pistons that played well in the NBA Finals against the Spurs.
Ever since 2002, Chauncey Billups has raised his game in the post-season. Last year, admittingly he ran out of gas by the playoffs, but since when is averagine 18 pts and 7 assists "not doing ?"
Again, what are you watching? You make no sense.
Ok he shot well in the first round but after that it got ugly. Conference Semifinals
7 7 39.6 29-77 .377 13-36 .361 33-36 .917 .3 3.6 3.9 5.9 2.00 .14 3.14 2.10 14.9
Conference Finals
6 6 41.2 34-87 .391 7-27 .259 33-37 .892 .7 2.2 2.8 7.2 .83 .17 2.17 2.80 18.0
He shot 26 % from 3's and 39% from the field against the Heat. He shot 38% from the field against the Cavs. That my friend is not showing up. Also he slowed the ball down and allowed Shaq to be well rested.
Ok, so he Chauncey had a poor series against the Miami Heat last post-season. You comparing him to what you called Bonzi implied that Chauncey only did well the season before against the Spurs in 2005. You ignored the 2004 Finals where he won Finals MVP. 2003, he had a few great performances against Orlando and played well in a few games even after severely spraining his ankle. Then like I said go back to 2002 when he averaged 22, 6, and 5 when he was the back-up and considered a journeyman.
Your point was already refuted as soon as you brought up Chauncey Billups, because for four straight post-seasons, Chauncey DID SHOW up.
And, look at Chauncey Billups' career stats. He's never shot a high percentage from the field. 38% is not good. But, he's almost exclusively a jumpshooter. Plus, he's the bail-out guy when the shot clock is running down.
And, as for slowing down the ball and allowing Shaq to rest. What the are you watching?!?!
The Pistons have been more of a half-court team the last four years. That's how they won the championship in 2004. That's how they got back to the Finals in 2005. Even under Flip, they were still more of a halfcourt team. And, it wasn't Shaq being rested that beat the Pistons. It was the fact no one could really stop Dwyane Wade. Shaq being rested wasn't why Miami beat the Pistons. It was Dwyane Wade and Antoine Walker having a couple very good games.
You're reaching right now, and it's funny.
Shaq played great against Detroit. Better than any other series in the playoffs for him. Billups missed a lot of open shots as I remember. I couldn't believe how he could go that cold just like I couldn't believe Bonzi could be that hot. Basketball is a game of hot and cold streaks. Billups played way below his normal game against Miami and Cleveland and Bonzi played way above his normal against the spurs. That doesn't mean you judge by that 6 or 7 games and overpay. What I'm trying to say is Bonzi isn't as good as how he played vs. the spurs. It was a hot streak.
I'll take the guy who isn't a locker room cancer, who has less than a 50/50 chance of sulking on the bench or of getting busted for drug possession. You can have the guy with all the potential and the at ude problems, and my team will win in a seven game series every time.
And I don't recall Finley disappearing in the playoffs. His scoring was slightly higher even though he was thrown in as the starting power forward halfway through the playoffs and asked to be a shot blocker.
So, why did you only mention how Finley had a better point per minute average than Bonzi in the regular season?
Nice way of amending your argument.
He had one or two decent games. He was not a factor. And, you'd be kidding if you tried to argue as much.And I don't recall Finley disappearing in the playoffs. His scoring was slightly higher even though he was thrown in as the starting power forward halfway through the playoffs and asked to be a shot blocker.
This is CRAP.
We could have paid him nearly 4mil for one year (E Williams' contract) to make him our 6th man, and instead we let him go to the neighbours! Sheesh.
We can only hope his cancerous ways come to the fore on a Rockets team that severely lacks leadership (although Battier may solve that for them...).
Where, in the text that you quoted, did I do that? Just wave the white flag now. My argument hasn't changed, but yours is looking weak.So, why did you only mention how Finley had a better point per minute average than Bonzi in the regular season?
Nice way of amending your argument.
You were the one who said Bonzi is ten times the player Finley and you were able to do it ONLY by extrapolating six great playoff performances out over the rest of his career, which requires a huge leap of faith that I'm just not willing to make.
I freely acknowledge that Bonzi played great in the playoffs, but I contend that it had more to do with the fact that he was playing for a contract, and I can cite his history to support that claim. I can also cite evidence that he's a disruption, a malcontent, and has a questionable work ethic. Besides, my having taken an 82 game cross section for comparison is mathematically 13 times more accurate in judging the contribution of Finley than you wanting to have Bonzi's baby just because he put up numbers a couple of times in losing playoff efforts.
In the part of my post that you DIDN'T bother to quote, I mentioned that Finley's scoring was a couple of tenths higher in spite of the huge disadvantage he was put in against two very good teams. You obviously didn't watch the Spurs Mavs series, otherwise you wouldn't try to make such a senseless argument Finley wasn't a factor.
Good post.
You mentioned on page two trying to refute my claim that Bonzi is 10 times the player Michael Finley is AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS.
"According to my research, Finley scored more points than Wells did last year on a per minute basis. Therefore not a lot of strength in that argument."
Sound familiar? That's where you mentioned it.
That was your counter-argument to mine. My contention wasn't merely based on points per minute, while you refuted only saying that Finley scored more points per minute than Wells, therefore Bonzi isn't 10 times the player Finley is.
I didn't even mention the six games against the Spurs last playoffs until you tried to use a statistical argument of their regular season stats, where Bonzi was injured for much of it. Bonzi was hurt most of the season last year. And, so you wanted to compare regular seasons stats, when you know full well that the playoffs is where money players are made and proven? Come on, son.
And, AGAIN, I said AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS, Bonzi is 10 times the player Finley is. In my opinion, he is. I think he's a better scorer and rebounder and all-around player. Just because Bonzi's stats aren't 10 times the numbers Finley is, it doesn't mean Bonzi isn't 10 times the player. Tim Duncan and Zach Randolph could both average 20 ppg and 10 rpg, and I'd still think Duncan is 10 times the player of Zach.
You are the one who took an abstract comparative phrase and made it into a literal argument outside of its context.
How the were you taking an 82 game cross section for comparison when Bonzi Wells only played 52 games in the regular season last year? Pure buffoonery. Wells even played hurt in some of those games. It's far more accurate if you make a comparative analysis when both players are healthy too, but you appear to want to play by a certain set of rules that only helps your argument.
When I posted Finley's numbers to Bonzi's numbers, it was for the Sacramento series ONLY. It didn't include Dallas series. I watched some of the Spurs-Mavs series. Finley had one decent game against the Kings, and I'm pretty sure it was in a loss. And, Finley logged heavier minutes against the Mavs when Pop went small ball, but so what? Finley sharing the responsibility of being the person Dirk was scoring on is supposed to be being a factor? Yeah right.
AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS, Bonzi Wells is 10 times the player Michael Finley is. You have yet to make a coherent argument to refute that. My point is Bonzi is a difference maker and can be an unstoppable force in a game while Finley is at the end of his career relegated to being a fourth option at best to hit open jumpers and playing some sideshow role.
You can bring more stats if you want. You want to talk about the regular season comparison. You probably think Peja is better than Manu or Chris Webber is just as good as Duncan because stats extrapolated over an 82 game regular season proves just that.
You, sir, are a moron.
You posted six times since I said that. Go ahead and add up the six playoff games Wells played and recalculate the numbers. It will make a small difference, but not enough to prevent you from looking any less ignorant for making such an asinine statement in the first place.
If your contention wasn't based upon points per minute, I wonder why you brought it up in the first place. Does it only count when you want to use it, or does it suddenly not count now that it completely fails to back up your point?
So what you really meant to say is "Bonzi Wells was ten times the player Michael Finley is - for six games. And BTW, how does losing the series make him a "money player" exactly? I suppose the same way games that Bonzi missed due to injury had an effect on his per minute stats: NOT AT ALL.
At this point in their respective careers, Finley is three years older than Bonzi. Finley's stats three years ago were better than Bonzi's have ever been, unless you want to just count those six playoff games. I suppose you should probably have said, "I can't prove it or anything, I just want to believe that Bonzi's a better player."
Yeah, who'd have thought? On a discussion forum? At least it only took you two dozen posts to finally admit that it was abstract. It's the first thing you've stated in this thread that there is actually evidence to back up.
Do you even understand what "per minute" means, or did you just hear it somewhere and think repeating it would make you sound smart? Certain set of rules? See "Three years older", above. Doesn't matter. Picking the best six games of the season is a MUCH more accurate way to judge a player that's been in the league for eight years.How the were you taking an 82 game cross section for comparison when Bonzi Wells only played 52 games in the regular season last year? Pure buffoonery. Wells even played hurt in some of those games. It's far more accurate if you make a comparative analysis when both players are healthy too, but you appear to want to play by a certain set of rules that only helps your argument.
Oh, I forgot. You can mention that Bonzi was injured for games you weren't even counting, but the mere mention that Finley was playing power forward in a playoff series can't possibly be a factor.
I've made nothing but coherent arguments to refute it. You've already admitted it was abstract, yet you throw it out there again?
Weak. Weak. Weak. You are a buffoon posing as a basketball intellectual. At least I know that from now on.
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