Who Will Win the NBA Finals?

[AFBlue]

Dallas is deeper, but being deeper doesn't make you better. You can only put 5 on the floor, 12 in uniform, and most of the time you play 7-10...so that's not an advantage. Still, they're top 3.

My other two are the Spurs, with TD healthy they're a given top 3 nominee, and the Heat. I just skimmed over the responses, but I didn't see the Heat get mentioned once. Are people down on the defending champs? They seemed pretty convincingly good taking care of the Mavs in 4 straight.

Just outside the top three are the Suns and Pistons. I write off the Suns as a gimmick team until they prove me otherwise...not saying they wont. And the Pistons losing Big Ben was huge, but their replacement isn't horrible.

I honestly think it'll be tight, which is great, but affiliation puts me over the top...Spurs '07 Champs.

[cornbread]

[QUOTE=stretch]

i never ONCE have blamed anything on the officials for Mavericks losses, because officiating is not an excuse.

Quote Stretch, "Come on - had the refs simply called it when Parker clearly and blatantly grabbed Dirk's jersey, the series could have been over much sooner."

[stretch]

You just contradicted yourself you idiot. You sit here and say "Spurs are an easy 5 game series" which in reality shows stupidity and arrogance on your part then saying that I use "brainless nonsense". You are also a dumbass if you say we are done contending for a le. I guess the same should be said for the Mavs who lost the Finals in the worst possible way by CHOKING! Who knows if they will even recover from that. This is a SPURS message board so if you dont like our "stupid homer" opinions then get the out of here and dont post.

i never said the Spurs are an easy 5 game series. i think it will be a very tough 5 game series, but the Mavericks have more playmakers, and are younger and have more stamina, and will close the series in 5. i never said the Spurs are done contending for a le either. i think their window to win a le has pretty much shut, because they are getting old, and lack talent compared to teams like the Mavericks and Suns, but they are still a le contending team. They have Tim Duncan, and thats all a team needs to be a le contender. but being a le contender doesnt win you a le.

now, do you still care to misquote me and twist my words further than you already have, and prove yourself to be even more ignorant than you have already shown?

[stretch]

[QUOTE=cornbread]

i never ONCE have blamed anything on the officials for Mavericks losses, because officiating is not an excuse.

Quote Stretch, "Come on - had the refs simply called it when Parker clearly and blatantly grabbed Dirk's jersey, the series could have been over much sooner."

way to take it out of context, dumb . go play in traffic.

[cornbread]

way to take it out of context, dumb . go play in traffic.

You can't really consider it "taken out of context" when it's from the same thread and dealing with the same subject.

I have to laugh when people on these boards say things like, "go play in traffic." Did you pick that one up from the mean kid on the playground? It's probably easier to just admit you were wrong.

[stretch]

You can't really consider it "taken out of context" when it's from the same thread and dealing with the same subject.

I have to laugh when people on these boards say things like, "go play in traffic." Did you pick that one up from the mean kid on the playground? It's probably easier to just admit you were wrong.

your ongoing ignorance amazes me. your unsurpassed stupidity is a disgrace to all stupid people.

[jn77]

Stretch,

I will conceed that the Spurs and mavs had bad officiating. We had it go against us in The Mavs Series, I think you guys got hosed in the finals. Worst officiated playoffs I ave ever seen. Good that is out of the way! The Mavs and Spurs both had chances to close out and the Mavs capitalized. Your team should be commended, they played a of a series and came out on top. the one thing you can't deny is that the Spurs also played a of a series and came up short. To say the Spurs window for a le run has shut may be jumping the gun a little. We needed Some improvement inside and we got it. What you are forgetting is that the Spurs didn't need a major overhaul, just a little work. Don't expect to see small ball this season from the Spurs. The Mavs do have a few Playmakers, but the only clutch players you have are Dirk and ocassionaly Stackhouse. To think a Spurs/Mavs rematch would go less than six games is Homerism. I am hoping for another Seven Game Series. where because of my association I will have to say Spurs in Seven, in the last two minutes!

[cornbread]

your ongoing ignorance amazes me. your unsurpassed stupidity is a disgrace to all stupid people.

Hey man, I'm didn't mean to make you feel disgraced. It is pretty impressive that you speak for all stupid people though. Every group needs a leader.

[ambchang]

Come on - had the refs simply called it when Parker clearly and blatantly grabbed Dirk's jersey, the series could have been over much sooner. either way, im not going to get into detail any more about the officiating since spurs fans refuse to think that the spurs EVER get away with any calls, and that the mavs get away with more calls than any team in the history of the NBA. ill just say this... there were bad calls both ways, for and against both teams. but it came down to execution, and the mavs executed better than the spurs did.

Come on man! Don't blame the refs. To be honest I still can't get over the call on Bowen at the end of Game 4, and to me, a phantom call is much more difficult to swallow than a non-call. It is also easy for Spurs fan to point to the imbalance in calls, when Dirk Nowitzki, a largely perimeter player, broke the record for free throws. Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you that there were bad calls both ways, and that the Mavs won the series based on aggressive play and better execution, not refs.

you have got to be nuts to say the spurs seriously made some positive additions. Elson and Butler MAYBE an improvement over Rasho and Nazr, but not very significant. however, Greg Buckner, Deaven George, Austin Croshere, Maurice Ager, and Anthony Johnson are CLEARLY an upgrade over Marquis Daniels, Adrian Griffin, and Darrell Armstrong. to add to it, the mavs still have growing youthful talent, in Harris, Howard, Dirk, and Diop. and so far, reports have been very good on Maurice Ager, and he could make some nice contributions this year as well. also the mavericks are now playoff tested, have had a few years under avery's system and have had time to gel, and have a much larger hunger to win than the Spurs.

Elson and Butler are not improvements over Rasho and Nazr, I will have to concede, but I will take Marquis Daniels and Darrell Armstrong over ANY of your new additions. Deaven George and Austin Croshere got bloated contracts, Anthony Johnson is slower than a tortoise on a snail, Buckner is good defensively, but Daniels is better all around, I don't know anything about Maurice Ager.
The improvement of Harris, Howard could happen, but it's not a given. Howard has improved slightly over the last two seasons, Devin Harris improved statistically based on more minutes, and Diop has not improved at all in 5 years, I don't know where that came from. Dirk is already pretty damned good, so I am not sure what kind of improvements you are looking for.
I am not saying that the Mavs will not win it, but I will say that it is a stretch to dismiss the Spurs and saying that the Mavs can win in 5 games (that's saying they will win 4 out of 5 games, or 80% of the games in a playoff series). To put that in perspective, out of the 15 series last year, only 4 of them ended in 5 games or less. Do you actually feel that the 2007 Mavs is better than the 2007 Spurs by as much as:
Heat over the Nets
Pistons over the Bucks
Clippers over a chaotic Nuggets
Mavs over the Grizzles in last year's playoffs? Come to think of this, 3 of the 4 series were 1st round series, which indicates quite a large gap in talent.
To answer the original questions, it will be either the Spurs or the Mavs, with me choosing the Spurs of course, because the Spurs didn't play with a full bill of health last year, and still stretched the Mavs to 7 games, and contrary to your opinion, I actually thought the two teams stayed relatively unchanged over the post season.

[milkyway21]

i think the Spurs will have a great year to win another le this yr.

I don't usually vote for the East but my crystal ball says if the Spurs can't make it on finals the dark horse will be the best defensive team in the league today-Chicago Bulls(Nocioni, Ben Wallace, PJ Brown ), not because Wade is not good enough to lead his team to repeat but ShaQ is now a yr older and Z is not good enough to back LeBron to win a le.

who really won les in the last 8 yrs? besides Tim & Shaq, Detroit was only survivor.

1999-Duncan
2000-ShaQ
2001-ShaQ
2002-ShaQ
2003-Duncan

2004-Detroit

2005-Duncan
2006-ShaQ

2007-?

[stretch]

Stretch,

I will conceed that the Spurs and mavs had bad officiating. We had it go against us in The Mavs Series, I think you guys got hosed in the finals. Worst officiated playoffs I ave ever seen. Good that is out of the way! The Mavs and Spurs both had chances to close out and the Mavs capitalized. Your team should be commended, they played a of a series and came out on top. the one thing you can't deny is that the Spurs also played a of a series and came up short. To say the Spurs window for a le run has shut may be jumping the gun a little. We needed Some improvement inside and we got it. What you are forgetting is that the Spurs didn't need a major overhaul, just a little work. Don't expect to see small ball this season from the Spurs. The Mavs do have a few Playmakers, but the only clutch players you have are Dirk and ocassionaly Stackhouse. To think a Spurs/Mavs rematch would go less than six games is Homerism. I am hoping for another Seven Game Series. where because of my association I will have to say Spurs in Seven, in the last two minutes!

i agree that the Spurs played a of a series. but IMO, they are getting old, and losing talent, while other teams, such as the mavericks, are maturing and gaining talent. thats why i think their window is closing, and perhaps has already closed. and to say that the only clutch players are Dirk and occasionally stack is nuts. ever heard of a guy named Jason Terry?

IMO, the Mavs will have much more going their way the next time they meet. they finally are playoff tested and know what it takes to win a series, especially against a tough team like the spurs. they have more maturity and development in their young players. they have improved in areas that they lacked (shooting, defense, veteran leadership). they also now have another year to gel, and get used to Avery's system.

what did the spurs gain since last season? they did not improve in much in any way. the C position is still lacking majorly. their depth at PG is also a concern. and their bench has several old guys past their prime. the team is still a very poor FT shooting team. im sorry, but i cannot see this team getting much better than they are, and as good as they are, they showed they are not invincible, and have weaknesses, like any other team does.

however, i do appreciate your respect shown in your post, as opposed to some of these other s that dont know what the they are talking about.

[stretch]

Come on man! Don't blame the refs. To be honest I still can't get over the call on Bowen at the end of Game 4, and to me, a phantom call is much more difficult to swallow than a non-call. It is also easy for Spurs fan to point to the imbalance in calls, when Dirk Nowitzki, a largely perimeter player, broke the record for free throws. Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you that there were bad calls both ways, and that the Mavs won the series based on aggressive play and better execution, not refs.



Elson and Butler are not improvements over Rasho and Nazr, I will have to concede, but I will take Marquis Daniels and Darrell Armstrong over ANY of your new additions. Deaven George and Austin Croshere got bloated contracts, Anthony Johnson is slower than a tortoise on a snail, Buckner is good defensively, but Daniels is better all around, I don't know anything about Maurice Ager.
The improvement of Harris, Howard could happen, but it's not a given. Howard has improved slightly over the last two seasons, Devin Harris improved statistically based on more minutes, and Diop has not improved at all in 5 years, I don't know where that came from. Dirk is already pretty damned good, so I am not sure what kind of improvements you are looking for.
I am not saying that the Mavs will not win it, but I will say that it is a stretch to dismiss the Spurs and saying that the Mavs can win in 5 games (that's saying they will win 4 out of 5 games, or 80% of the games in a playoff series). To put that in perspective, out of the 15 series last year, only 4 of them ended in 5 games or less. Do you actually feel that the 2007 Mavs is better than the 2007 Spurs by as much as:
Heat over the Nets
Pistons over the Bucks
Clippers over a chaotic Nuggets
Mavs over the Grizzles in last year's playoffs? Come to think of this, 3 of the 4 series were 1st round series, which indicates quite a large gap in talent.
To answer the original questions, it will be either the Spurs or the Mavs, with me choosing the Spurs of course, because the Spurs didn't play with a full bill of health last year, and still stretched the Mavs to 7 games, and contrary to your opinion, I actually thought the two teams stayed relatively unchanged over the post season.

if you read my other posts, i was not blaming the refs at all. that was an example of a lame excuse i could have easily used, just the way the other spurs fan used a lame excuse for why the mavs beat the spurs. however, i dont believe in blaming officiating one bit though.

and while Daniels and Armstrong may be better players than some of our new additions, they didnt fit into our system. we needed defense, toughness, perimiter shooting, and mature, controlled play. those guys give us just that. Daniels is very talented, and i hate that we lost him, but he did not fit into our system much. he made too many dumb mistakes, blew defensive assignments, and couldnt shoot.

and dont make health as an excuse. the mavs werent perfectly healthy either. Stack, Harris, Howard, had all just got back from injury. Dirk i believe also got hurt in the series as well. dont use injuries as an excuse. if the player doesnt miss the game, injuries cannot be an excuse.

[jn77]

I agree that the Spurs did not Improve much, but they didn't really need to. The depth at point guard is a concern, but I think Beno will improve more with more minutes. Van Exel was a bust last year and Beno sat on the bench way too much, look for him improve this season. Robert Horry has a season left in him, Bruce Bowen is still one of the top defenders in the leauge, and Brent Barry has some juice left, be it not alot. The spurs have lots of Playoff experiance. They are finals tested, and proven. The Mavs showed inexperiance in the finals. They collapsed. It was not what I expected, I thought they had a chance to take Miami. give em another play off run to get some Big Game experiance. One big game dosen't win a championship Four do. The Mavs weren't ready for the pressure of the finals. That is their youth showing. They are maturing and will be a force to be reckoned with, but If it comes down to San Antonio/ Dallas for the conferance Championship, I will go with experiance everytime.

I too appreciate your respect durring your reply. I wanna talk basketball, not take part in complete homerism. I love the rivalry and the passion it brings out, but cussing someone out because they have a different opinion, is just stupid.

[mavs>spurs2]

I think you should all go kill yourselves for still obsessing on something that has been over with for a while and still finding ways to argue and bring old back up. New season is about to start up then you can talk all the trash you want.

[RC's Boss]

i agree that the Spurs played a of a series. but IMO, they are getting old, and losing talent, while other teams, such as the mavericks, are maturing and gaining talent. thats why i think their window is closing, and perhaps has already closed. and to say that the only clutch players are Dirk and occasionally stack is nuts. ever heard of a guy named Jason Terry?

IMO, the Mavs will have much more going their way the next time they meet. they finally are playoff tested and know what it takes to win a series, especially against a tough team like the spurs. they have more maturity and development in their young players. they have improved in areas that they lacked (shooting, defense, veteran leadership). they also now have another year to gel, and get used to Avery's system.

what did the spurs gain since last season? they did not improve in much in any way. the C position is still lacking majorly. their depth at PG is also a concern. and their bench has several old guys past their prime. the team is still a very poor FT shooting team. im sorry, but i cannot see this team getting much better than they are, and as good as they are, they showed they are not invincible, and have weaknesses, like any other team does.

however, i do appreciate your respect shown in your post, as opposed to some of these other s that dont know what the they are talking about.

Our center position is lacking majorly???? I guess Wilt Chamberlin plays center for the Mavs considering the amount you pay for yours (oh forgot he's a backup now)! Yeah, Croshere and George are like 23 years old?!?!?!

[stretch]

I agree that the Spurs did not Improve much, but they didn't really need to. The depth at point guard is a concern, but I think Beno will improve more with more minutes. Van Exel was a bust last year and Beno sat on the bench way too much, look for him improve this season. Robert Horry has a season left in him, Bruce Bowen is still one of the top defenders in the leauge, and Brent Barry has some juice left, be it not alot. The spurs have lots of Playoff experiance. They are finals tested, and proven. The Mavs showed inexperiance in the finals. They collapsed. It was not what I expected, I thought they had a chance to take Miami. give em another play off run to get some Big Game experiance. One big game dosen't win a championship Four do. The Mavs weren't ready for the pressure of the finals. That is their youth showing. They are maturing and will be a force to be reckoned with, but If it comes down to San Antonio/ Dallas for the conferance Championship, I will go with experiance everytime.

I too appreciate your respect durring your reply. I wanna talk basketball, not take part in complete homerism. I love the rivalry and the passion it brings out, but cussing someone out because they have a different opinion, is just stupid.

well, Dallas and San Antonio did meet, and the Mavericks had far less experience this past year... and they won. just food for thought.

[stretch]

Our center position is lacking majorly???? I guess Wilt Chamberlin plays center for the Mavs considering the amount you pay for yours (oh forgot he's a backup now)! Yeah, Croshere and George are like 23 years old?!?!?!

we arent talking about the Mavericks C position. however, id take Diop, Dampier, and Mbenga over Elson, Butler, and Oberto in a heartbeat. pretty much anyone that knows a thing about b-ball would too.

[mavs>spurs2]

we arent talking about the Mavericks C position. however, id take Diop, Dampier, and Mbenga over Elson, Butler, and Oberto in a heartbeat. pretty much anyone that knows a thing about b-ball would too.

Yea I agree but why are we still arguing about last year's again? Mavs are gonna wipe the floor with them this year, that's all that matters.

[NorCal510]

Homer Site

[THE SIXTH MAN]

I think you should all go kill yourselves for still obsessing on something that has been over with for a while and still finding ways to argue and bring old back up. New season is about to start up then you can talk all the trash you want.

Thats what Im talking about! as much as last season sucked ass its time TO MOVE ON!

[jn77]

well, Dallas and San Antonio did meet, and the Mavericks had far less experience this past year... and they won. just food for thought.

Point taken, but now the spurs aren't only experianced, they have something to prove. They have to prove that they are still a championship caliber team. Look for the fire you didn't see in overtime of game seven to be there this season for the Spurs. I look forward to a great season series between the Mavs/Spurs and maybe another playoff match up.

[ambchang]

if you read my other posts, i was not blaming the refs at all. that was an example of a lame excuse i could have easily used, just the way the other spurs fan used a lame excuse for why the mavs beat the spurs. however, i dont believe in blaming officiating one bit though.

I did read your other posts in the thread, and it does sound like you were blaming the refs for extending the series. And it is just as lame for the Spurs fan to blame the loss on the refs, as you are blaming the series went longer because of a non-call. I don’t know how else you can explain your post #30. You directly came up with

Come on - had the refs simply called it when Parker clearly and blatantly grabbed Dirk's jersey, the series could have been over much sooner. either way, im not going to get into detail any more about the officiating since spurs fans refuse to think that the spurs EVER get away with any calls, and that the mavs get away with more calls than any team in the history of the NBA. ill just say this... there were bad calls both ways, for and against both teams. but it came down to execution, and the mavs executed better than the spurs did..

In direct response to:

The Spurs and the Mavs will almost certainly meet again, and it will probably be as close a series as it was - and it was as close as any series can be. Come on - had Manu not fouled on the final play, the Mavs wouldn't have even made it to the Finals. It came down to LITERALLY one little misstep, one little miscalculation. These teams are very evenly matched, as they are again this year. Neither team lost a single player who contributed to their success in the playoffs last year, and both teams have made some positive additions. No reason to think they won't both be back in the West Finals next year.

and while Daniels and Armstrong may be better players than some of our new additions, they didnt fit into our system. we needed defense, toughness, perimiter shooting, and mature, controlled play. those guys give us just that. Daniels is very talented, and i hate that we lost him, but he did not fit into our system much. he made too many dumb mistakes, blew defensive assignments, and couldnt shoot.

Again, this may be true, this may not be true, the new guys could fit the system, they could not fit the system. Brent Barry was supposed to fit the Spurs system well, look what happened, he didn’t!

and dont make health as an excuse. the mavs werent perfectly healthy either. Stack, Harris, Howard, had all just got back from injury. Dirk i believe also got hurt in the series as well. dont use injuries as an excuse. if the player doesnt miss the game, injuries cannot be an excuse.

It’s ironic about your continuous plea for others to read your posts carefully, while you haven’t demonstrated you have done the same for other people’s post.
I said the Spurs, despite being injured, still stretched the Mavs to 7 games, and I like their chances this year because they are healthy, I didn’t say they lost to the Mavs because of injuries. Those are two different things. I am not the one to predict how the series would have turned out if the Spurs were totally, or relatively healthy throughout the season, I believe there wouldn’t be too much of a difference. And even if the player misses a game, it cannot be used as an excuse, it’s part of the game.

Just to clarify, you DID directly say the following:

Come on - had the refs simply called it when Parker clearly and blatantly grabbed Dirk's jersey, the series could have been over much sooner.

Besides, I would still like to see how you could explain your 5 game prediction. Not that I am saying it’s not going to happen, because Detroit beat the Lakers in 5 games in 2004, Spurs beat the Suns in 5 games in 2005, none of those were expected, but it’s quite a bold statement to make this early in the season.

[stretch]

if you cant sense sarcasm, then dont respond to my posts. the guy said the spurs lost the series on one play. thats not true at all. the spurs lost the series because the mavericks won 4 games out of a 7 game series. they outplayed the spurs, plain and simple. you cant take back what was already done. whats done is done. the mavericks won. he shouldnt keep making stupid excuses for why the spurs lost. if i wanted to actually use a lame excuse, i could use the Parker grab. but the fact is, they did not lose that game because of a no-call. they lost because they didnt execute when they needed to.

and Brent Barry didnt fit into the system much because he was never a good fit to begin with. they needed a pure shooter. hes a solid shooter, but is too old, and far too inconsistent for what they needed.

so what if the spurs had injuries? my point is that the mavs did too. therefore, your whole injury arguement is completely pointless. maybe if the Mavs were healthy all season, they too could have done better. they could have won 65 games and gotten HCA over the spurs. who knows? the fact is, they didnt. injuries are part of the game. the best teams can battle through little injuries. but injuries cannot be used as an excuse in any way.

and yea, i did say that statement. but you obviously proved that you are too ignorant to understand simple sarcasm.

i already explained why i think they would win the series in 5. i never said they would dominate or anything. i think it will be 5 hard-fought games. but i think the mavericks have more playmakers, a better team, and will have HCA. they beat the spurs this past season when no one thought they could. now, they proved they can beat them, gained valuable playoff experience, a great hunger to prove that they can get back and win a le finally, and have improved their team in several ways, while the spurs have not improved their team. they have only gotten older.

[cornbread]

[QUOTE=ambchang]I did read your other posts in the thread, and it does sound like you were blaming the refs for extending the series. And it is just as lame for the Spurs fan to blame the loss on the refs, as you are blaming the series went longer because of a non-call. I don’t know how else you can explain your post #30. You directly came up with



[QUOTE=ambchang]It’s ironic about your continuous plea for others to read your posts carefully, while you haven’t demonstrated you have done the same for other people’s post.
I said the Spurs, despite being injured, still stretched the Mavs to 7 games, and I like their chances this year because they are healthy, I didn’t say they lost to the Mavs because of injuries. Those are two different things. I am not the one to predict how the series would have turned out if the Spurs were totally, or relatively healthy throughout the season, I believe there wouldn’t be too much of a difference. And even if the player misses a game, it cannot be used as an excuse, it’s part of the game.



Great stuff ambchang! I enjoyed the irony too. But when I pointed it out (post #52) I was told that post #30 was taken out of context and was subsequently called a poopie-head...or maybe it was dumb . I'll have to review the post to be certain. That's the great thing about these boards. When one makes excuses and whines, it's put in writing and it doesn't go away.

You are right about injuries too. Injuries can't be used as an excuse. Spurs won in 05 when Duncan was crippled with ankle injuries. Willis Reed could barely walk in Game 7 of the 1970 Finals but still played and won. Isiah Thomas scored 25 points in one quarter, on foot in the 1980 Finals. Who could forget Jordan's flu game in the Finals.

[cornbread]

[QUOTE=cornbread]Isiah Thomas scored 25 points in one quarter, on foot in the 1980 Finals.



My bad. 1988 Finals.