Mavs ponder lessons learned in finals

[FromWayDowntown]

For the record, I think the Mavs have the opportunity to make themselves better because of the Finals experience they went through. How much they do so depends entirely on how willing they are to realize that they lost the Finals because of the things that they did and did not do -- not because they fell victim to some conspiracy or lousy officiating. There was no conspiracy that prevented the Mavs from finishing off Game 3; no officiating held them to 7 points in the 4th Quarter of Game 4. Just as the Spurs have a choice to make about how to respond to what happened in the 2nd Round, the Mavs have a choice to make about how to deal with their collapse in the Finals.

I'd bet that the Mavs will grow from that experience. I'm also betting that the Spurs have grown from their experience. And that should make for another classic showdown between those teams at some point before the playoffs end.

[BUMP]

For the record, I think the Mavs have the opportunity to make themselves better because of the Finals experience they went through. How much they do so depends entirely on how willing they are to realize that they lost the Finals because of the things that they did and did not do -- not because they fell victim to some conspiracy or lousy officiating. There was no conspiracy that prevented the Mavs from finishing off Game 3; no officiating held them to 7 points in the 4th Quarter of Game 4. Just as the Spurs have a choice to make about how to respond to what happened in the 2nd Round, the Mavs have a choice to make about how to deal with their collapse in the Finals.

I'd bet that the Mavs will grow from that experience. I'm also betting that the Spurs have grown from their experience. And that should make for another classic showdown between those teams at some point before the playoffs end.

Thank you.

[BUMP]

See, this is exactly the type of " fans" I was talking about seeing all the time at the American Airlines. Seriously, the season hasn't even started, and big ing deal, you beat us in a scripted series. I'd tell you to "act like you've been there before," BUT, you haven't. The Dallas Mavericks haven't. They've been at the bottom of the league until this guy ( ) got them out of it.
For real, just keep hugging and kissing that nerdy, big-headed child you have as an owner.
Oh, and have some respect:::::::: 3 rings > 0 rings... son.

hypocrite

[z0sa]

We sent you home round 2 this year so that pretty much means that we did beat/eliminate you. Fact is Mavs improved while the Spurs went backwards. Gonna throw Eric Williams or Bonner on Dirk?? Yeah yeah you have your top 3 and Finley so you will stay contending but your role players wont be good enough to get you past us.

Dirk isn't who beat us in that playoffs.. it was everyone else. If wed have stuck to our twin tower defense and let dirk have his, we'd have won. I think its fairly simple. And with more mobile big men acquisitions this year, we should be able to play small with the Mavs and thus, beat them.

I think the idea is, we DO let Bonner or Finley on Dirk for three quarters, and let Bowen shut him down come the fourth.

[FromWayDowntown]

Dirk isn't who beat us in that playoffs.. it was everyone else. If wed have stuck to our twin tower defense and let dirk have his, we'd have won. I think its fairly simple. And with more mobile big men acquisitions this year, we should be able to play small with the Mavs and thus, beat them.

I think the idea is, we DO let Bonner or Finley on Dirk for three quarters, and let Bowen shut him down come the fourth.

I think its simpler than that. I don't buy that playing two 7 footers would have changed the outcome.

I do buy that finding guys who can stay with Dirk and make him work for shots while allowing Bowen to play defensively against Howard or Terry would have. I think, in the end, that's what the Spurs have done. Will Elson or Bonner or Oberto or Williams or anyone else stop Dirk? No. But they should be able to do enough, length-wise, to free up Bowen to stay with the Mavs' wings and defend whichever of them gets hot or is giving the Spurs problems. That balances the Spurs defense again and gives them a realistic shot of limiting the number of threats on any given possession. Matchups with Howard, Terry, or Stackhouse are far more favorable for Bruce than a matchup with Dirk. And you're right -- in the end, Bowen can switch to Dirk for key possessions as necessary. That scenario still eliminates any need to have Duncan play Dirk for long stretches, which is useful for keeping one of the league's best rebounders at the rim, where he can end possessions.

I also think that we'll see some usefulness in the Jacque Vaughn acquisition when the Spurs and Mavs matchup. I thought one problem that the Terry/Harris backcourt presented for the Spurs was a matchup problem. Parker can deal with the speed of either of those guys, but Van Exel couldn't, which put guys like Ginobili in bad defensive spots from time-to-time. I actually think that the Spurs went after Vaughn with the specific notion of playing two points on occasion against Dallas and matching up with the Mavs' guards that way. It actually works on both ends. Vaughn isn't a stellar defender, but he's better than average. He's also a decent operator of a team on the offensive end (even if he can't shoot). Pop can play Vaughn for stretches as the point while allowing Parker to play the offensive 2 and defend Terry. It might keep Parker fresher and give the Spurs a better chance to matchup in certain situations.

The Spurs' moves this summer weren't perhaps as flashy as the Mavs' moves, but I do think the Spurs addressed particular schematic problems by finding personnel to address very specific needs.

[Taco]

http://www.nba.com/news/blackbox_060628.html

The interlocking cross-panel design has one-third the channel area of the previous official ball to provide more material coverage and better grip.

[FromWayDowntown]

And Taco invokes the Chewbacca defense . . . .

[Taco]

And Taco invokes the Chewbacca defense . . . .

[z0sa]

FromWayDowntown - that's what i was saying. Can we stop Dirk? No. He has officially achieved superstar scorer status. But what we can do is let him have his, while stopping Terry/Howard/Harris from having big games. If Bowen stays on Harris or Terry or Howard for a stretch of time, he will shut them down - i think we can all agree to that. Its when Dirk is having a good game AND terry or howard or harris, thats when we get into trouble.

So what do the Spurs do? Bowen will move around to guard everyone at some point in time, but by default, this is how we do it: We put Parker/Vaughn on Harris or terry, Bowen on Howard, Tim on Dampier/Mbenga (if thats still the correct Mavs roster for centers) and finally Elson, Bonner, or Horry on Dirk. Probably Dirk goes off, but we just keep throwing different defenders at him in hope of throwing him off at least for a stretch or two per game. Now, while we're covering Dirk, we use Bowen to stop the OTHER guy who's having a good game, be it Terry, Harris, or Howard. If none of them are doing great, we leave their proper defenders on them.

The way i see it, Bowen has the length to stop Terry, and the footspeed and sound defensive fundamentals to stop either Harris or Howard. Of course, theres always going to be an x factor we can't plan for: all of them having a good game, or someone coming from the bench. I just think if we stay tall and funnel them to the baseline, we can win much easier - none of that 4-guard bs.

[David Stern]

the less for Mavs and their fans: dont with me

[Dirk41MVP]

We put Parker/Vaughn on Harris or terry,

right, do that and we'll see devin have 20+ point games AGAIN...

[QUOTE]The way i see it, Bowen has the length to stop Terry, and the footspeed and sound defensive fundamentals to stop either Harris or Howard.[/Quote}

parker couldn't stay in front of devin, what makes you think a slower, bigger bowen will be able to ?. As far as slowing jho, he could, but you're forgetting about jet, devin, dirk(nobody will be able to guard him), stack, and hopefully AJ.

We got deeper and our depth gave the spurs problems last season, this season doesn't seem like the exception.

And as far as those who think nesterovic or nazr would have slowed dirk down enough for you guys to win, get off the crack pipe. If your best defender couldn't shut him down, what difference would those useless farts have made ?... I'd like to see Nazr covering jho or dirk around the three point line, that would have been fun.

I just think if we stay tall and funnel them to the baseline, we can win much easier - none of that 4-guard bs.

bottom line: what you morons don't get is that your center (the one guarding dirk or jho) would RARELY, IF EVER be on the baseline on defense. If that's the case, why would you want him out there on the perimeter guarding these 2 mavs ?... seriously, there's sometimes too much stupidity going around.

Face it, you had no answer for dirk, still don't and probably will never have, but nobody does either, he is a matchup nightmare. I think everybody can agree on this. He is one of those players other teams don't have answers for (same for the lebrons, kgs, duncans, etc etc.). We don't expect to shut down duncan, cause nobody in the league can, same for the guys aforementioned.

Saying all this to say I don't see how the REPLACEMENT of 2 centers for another 2 centers is much of an advantage when facing the mavs...

[mavsfan1000]

Saying all this to say I don't see how the REPLACEMENT of 2 centers for another 2 centers is much of an advantage when facing the mavs...

I agree with this. The key is to get a athletic center or athletic power forward that can recover in time to challenge Harris at the basket and challenge Dirk's shot. Those are few and far between though. Elson might be the guy but I kinda doubt it. Duncan has to be the main shotblocker like Shaq was in the Heat series.

[Man In Black]

As always, Dallas homer focuses only on 1 side of the court. The addition of Elson gives the Spurs a bigman that can run.

The centers that Pop used other than Tim Duncan, weren't able to handle the pace of the game,at least that is what Pop felt. Having a guy like Elson, Oberto back for a second year, and a 21 year old True Center in Jackie Butler gives this team more offensive options that last years team. And while it's true that your team finally beat the Spurs in a playoff series, EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE in the hoop world outside of Dallas, feels that had the Spurs been completely healthy...that series would've gone the Spurs way.

[leemajors]

no team is ever completely healthy by the time the playoffs start. they beat us last year, but it's a toss up in the new season. if the spurs or mavs lose this first game, it still doesn't mean jack.

[Dirk41MVP]

EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE in the hoop world outside of Dallas, feels that had the Spurs been completely healthy...that series would've gone the Spurs way.

Ohh right, so I'm the homer for saying that elson and butler won't solve the dirk poblem, but you say you guys were hurt ?.. lol hilarious. duncan was hurt that's why he averaged 30+ and 10+. Ginobili was hurt also, that's why he continued to make bonehead moves, and i'm guessing parker was also hurt...

If that's your argument I can say Dirk was hurt as well (ankle), or we got our 2nd best player suspended, or any # of excuses, but the bottom line is you were healthy and you still lost. I guess Duncan would have averaged 50+ and 30+ had he been "healthy", and ginobili's IQ would be alittle bit higher had he been "healthy" also... lmao good excuses moron.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Ohh right, so I'm the homer for saying that elson and butler won't solve the dirk poblem, but you say you guys were hurt ?.. lol hilarious. duncan was hurt that's why he averaged 30+ and 10+. Ginobili was hurt also, that's why he continued to make bonehead moves, and i'm guessing parker was also hurt...

If that's your argument I can say Dirk was hurt as well (ankle), or we got our 2nd best player suspended, or any # of excuses, but the bottom line is you were healthy and you still lost. I guess Duncan would have averaged 50+ and 30+ had he been "healthy", and ginobili's IQ would be alittle bit higher had he been "healthy" also... lmao good excuses moron.

Why don't you just come out and tell us how you really feel?

[icem]

i think the mavs would beat the spurs again in a series. i think it only went 7 games because jason terry was suspended for game 6. the spurs role players are trash and duncan is in a decline. manu is starting to get injured more and more folks, its all downhill from here....

[Dalhoop]

The moves that the Mavs have made have revealed what they plan to do all season, for the next several season really.

Harris will play PG full time
Terry will play SG full time
Howard will play SF full time
Dirk ...
Dampier will slowly loose minute to Diop.

The main problem with facing this line-up is that your center (by this I mean Duncan) will be playing defense on an island. Dirk will not be near the hoop, therefor, unless you go zone, neither will his defender.

I know that it is nice to think that a defender can stay in front of their man, but reality would indicate otherwise. With picks and set plays, fast guards do get to the rim, I shouldn't have to tell Spurs fans this.

When Parker or Manu gets to rim, Dirk and Diop/Dampier will be there to try for the stop. When Terry or Harris gets to rim ... Only Duncan will be there as Dirks man will be too far out.

If there is a foul under the basket, and only Duncan there, this would be a problem. This is the reason that the Spurs went small in the play-offs. Bowen is quick enough to cover Dirk and recover to the basket. Is Elson quick enough? Butler? Bonner? Oberto?

If not, then Bowen will be moved to Dirk and the Spurs will go small and all you Spurs fans will be on here complaining about small ball again. So when we Mav fans say "Can so-and-so guard Dirk" what we actually mean is "Is he quick enough to get back into defensive position under the basket, while at the same time guarding Dirk"

Now I will admit, I haven't seen much of Butler. I am only going on the fact that he was the third center on the Knicks, who didn't win much last year. Elson was either the second or third Center in Denver, depending on injuries. Neither of those facts would lead me to believe that they are anything special.

I don't think that Parker, Manu and Bowen, can keep Harris, Terry and Howard from the basket. I believe that will set the dominoes in motion that will only lead to the Spurs playing small ball again.

[ShoogarBear]

LMAO at how Mav Fan tries to make this seem like such an unsolvable problem for the Spurs.

If Manu doesn't blow his gasket, all of this would be back to Square One for them.

[Dalhoop]

You know, Maybe if the Spurs hadn't given the Mavs a 20pt lead in game seven, it wouldn't have come down to one play.

You know, If the Spurs weren't outscored 15-7 in OT of an elimination game this confersation wouldn't take place.

Man these Spurs fans think that one play costed them the game. You don't give up a 20 pts lead in game seven on one play. and you don't get outscored in OT on one play either.

You need to get over it and realize that that the Mavs know how to beat the Spurs and proved in Game SEVEN

[mavs>spurs2]

You know, Maybe if the Spurs hadn't given the Mavs a 20pt lead in game seven, it wouldn't have come down to one play.

You know, If the Spurs weren't outscored 15-7 in OT of an elimination game this confersation wouldn't take place.

Man these Spurs fans think that one play costed them the game. You don't give up a 20 pts lead in game seven on one play. and you don't get outscored in OT on one play either.

You need to get over it and realize that that the Mavs know how to beat the Spurs and proved in Game SEVEN

People try to put all the blame on Manu, but Manu didn't give the mavs a 20 point lead by himself in one play. The spurs just got beat, plain and simple.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The Spurs know how to beat the Mavs too. Look at game 1,5, and 6. Maybe this conversation wouldn't take place if the Mavs kept their lead when they were leading by 20. Maybe this conversation wouldn't take place if Jason Terry didn't punch Michael Finley in the shaboinka. Maybe this conversation wouldn't take place if you didn't let us come back from a 1-3 deficit. There's a lot of maybes. The fact is that one play did cost us that game. Because we were leading by 3 and if Manu didn't foul him we wouldv'e gotten back the ball and we would have been still leading, that is if you remember. That was the past, and this is now. The Spurs are gonna forget about that and go back on the road to a le.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

People try to put all the blame on Manu, but Manu didn't give the mavs a 20 point lead by himself in one play. The spurs just got beat, plain and simple.

We got beat because we were winning by 3 and Manu fouled him. If he didn't foul him it could've been a totally different game.

[td4mvp21]

All I see in Mavs fans post are "blah blah we are unguardable blah blah".

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

In a nuts ......yeah, you're right!