Jason Kidd > Tony Parker

[v2freak]

Many regard the NBA as the highest level of compe ion for basketball players in the world. That being said, I don't think any players that have reached this level are befitting of the le "scrub" (that's like saying the worst of the best). Parker's definitely not a scrub IMO

[Nero]

As awesome as Kidd is, I would never trade Parker for him. Kidd is a great full court player but he is in a slow half court game. Parker is a much better half court player then Kidd is. In terms of making players look better then what they really are, Kidd wins that hands down. He made Kmart a ing allstar and hes making RJ look like a star as well. Kidd is a superstar and Parker is not but could be down the line...we will see. I will say this though, anyone who thinks Parker is good ONLY because of Duncan is full of . He is a legitamte all star and a top 10 pg in this league. Parker is really that good and Kidd is really that GREAT!

Excellent post, especially the part about Kidd's halfcourt game. But Kidd is the best defensive PG in the L. I've seen him shut down star PG's, like Nash and Billlups, many times. Additionally, what a luxury it is to have a PG who rebounds like a forward.

[stretch]

Parkers progression over the years says alot about him. He came into the league as a 19 year old.

His scoring,shooting,slashing,defense,toughness,passin g,basketball IQ, decision making, etc etc has dramatically improved every season. Yes I do agree Duncan helps take pressure off of Parker but he isnt the only reason why Parker has really improved as an overall player. Parker has worked his ass off to be this good. Duncan can only do so much in making Parker look good. The rest takes dedication and hard work. Either way if you think Parker is a complete scrub without Duncan, then you are just a hater.

i never said hes a complete scrub. i think hes a decent player that has some skills. but hes not an all-star unless he plays with a superstar, like Duncan in this case. hes still not a very good shooter. he only hits wide open shots. when people contest his jumpers, hes not a great shooter at all. put just a little pressure on any jumper of his, its about a 95% guarantee that it wont go in. his defense is still very average. and im not sure where you got the idea that hes really tough. its a known fact that his kryptonite is physical play. get rough with him, and he plays like . his passing is very average. i dont see him making many tough passes at all. and a good 3-4 assists of his come from feeding duncan inside. if he plays 34 minutes a game, and can only average 6 assists per game playing with Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, thats not showing much in terms of his passing ability. and he has about a 2-1 assist-turnover ratio, which also is not saying much about his passing and desicion making.

however, there are defintely some positives about his game as well. hes a very good finisher. hes very quick which helps his penetration. he usually hits wide open mid-range jumpers. however, those three things are not enough to make you an all-star on your own. if he can play the way he does, without Tim Duncan, and lead a team on his own, then yea, ill say hes an all-star. but if he and Ginobili together, who you guys say are all-stars (and many even call them superstars) then how come a couple years ago, the Spurs went a measly 6-7 without Duncan? typically, its said that 2 superstars are essential for a Championship team. so how come these "superstars" didnt do a whole lot, or lead their team to victory? how come also, when Tim Duncan leaves the game, the team's efficiency ratings drop significantly? according to 82games.com, when Tim Duncan leaves the court, the efficiency rating drops a whopping net 12.6 points. and his presence per 100 possesions also results in the team in scoring 11 more points than the opponent. Tony Parker's presence per 100 possessions actually shows a drop of 1.9 points. granted, this isnt really the best way to show whether a player is all-star material or not, but it clearly shows that Duncan's presence is FAR more essential to the Spurs success than Parker's. Duncan can win a le without Parker. Parker cannot win a le without Duncan (or some sort of superstar).

[Das Texan]

i wonder if i have the original topic saved in my archives somewhere.


i seem to recall only a select few who felt that the offense should be ran through tony parker at the time.

:whistle

[TDMVPDPOY]

the only these two idiots have one thing in common is there defense if overrated, they let as much PG scores as much as them

[xapatan2]

the only these two idiots have one thing in common is there defense if overrated, they let as much PG scores as much as them

"idiots" ?

Who are you ?

the great master of basketball ???

The poster who comes with a terrific argumentation based on a proven and recognised knowledge ??

Nope...

Sure the defense of Kind at 33 is not anymore the way it was...

But please STFU if it is to post such stupidities ! Kidd has been an all-america defender for years and during his second and third years in San Antonio Parker has proved to have the ability to be an excellent defender...

After that, Parker does not work enough these days on the defense part ( as noted many times by timvp in the notes ) but it is only a question of priority and involvement. comes March and the end of the season it is surely gonna change.

But ing please, stop to post when you can't ing prove your statement, that's becoming really really tiring...

Parker and Kidd are in the Nba since respectively more than 5 and 10 years... you have to take in consideration this timeframe to have a judgment..

Xap

[pichichi63]

i never said hes a complete scrub. i think hes a decent player that has some skills. but hes not an all-star unless he plays with a superstar, like Duncan in this case. hes still not a very good shooter. he only hits wide open shots. when people contest his jumpers, hes not a great shooter at all. put just a little pressure on any jumper of his, its about a 95% guarantee that it wont go in. his defense is still very average. and im not sure where you got the idea that hes really tough. its a known fact that his kryptonite is physical play. get rough with him, and he plays like . his passing is very average. i dont see him making many tough passes at all. and a good 3-4 assists of his come from feeding duncan inside. if he plays 34 minutes a game, and can only average 6 assists per game playing with Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, thats not showing much in terms of his passing ability. and he has about a 2-1 assist-turnover ratio, which also is not saying much about his passing and desicion making.

however, there are defintely some positives about his game as well. hes a very good finisher. hes very quick which helps his penetration. he usually hits wide open mid-range jumpers. however, those three things are not enough to make you an all-star on your own. if he can play the way he does, without Tim Duncan, and lead a team on his own, then yea, ill say hes an all-star. but if he and Ginobili together, who you guys say are all-stars (and many even call them superstars) then how come a couple years ago, the Spurs went a measly 6-7 without Duncan? typically, its said that 2 superstars are essential for a Championship team. so how come these "superstars" didnt do a whole lot, or lead their team to victory? how come also, when Tim Duncan leaves the game, the team's efficiency ratings drop significantly? according to 82games.com, when Tim Duncan leaves the court, the efficiency rating drops a whopping net 12.6 points. and his presence per 100 possesions also results in the team in scoring 11 more points than the opponent. Tony Parker's presence per 100 possessions actually shows a drop of 1.9 points. granted, this isnt really the best way to show whether a player is all-star material or not, but it clearly shows that Duncan's presence is FAR more essential to the Spurs success than Parker's. Duncan can win a le without Parker. Parker cannot win a le without Duncan (or some sort of superstar).

Wade cannot win a le without shaq
Kobe cannot win a le without shaq
Magic cannot win a le without Jabar

To win the Nba le, you must have a dominant center or forward!
Don't forget that!!!

[stretch]

[/B]

Wade cannot win a le without shaq
Kobe cannot win a le without shaq
Magic cannot win a le without Jabar

To win the Nba le, you must have a dominant center or forward!
Don't forget that!!!

where was Jordan's dominant center/forward? and Shaq was hardly dominant in the finals last year.

oh, and Duncan can win without Parker. even more, Parker isnt even the second best player on the team. there is no way in that he is a better basketball player than Ginobili. while i think some people overrate him a bit (when calling him the best player in the NBA or a Superstar), he is one of the most creative players in the league, has a well balanced offensive attack, plays strong defense, and hustles. i dont think he is as talented as several other SGs in the league, but he works hard, makes plays, and is much more capable of creating his own shot than parker. he is also capable of handling pressure and physical play without backing down. he steps up when needed.

[stretch]

But please STFU if it is to post such stupidities ! Kidd has been an all-america defender for years and during his second and third years in San Antonio Parker has proved to have the ability to be an excellent defender...

are you kidding me? Parker has not shown any ability to be an excellent defender. if you mean by getting steals, that doesnt mean much. steals is probably the most overrated defensive stat. Bruce Bowen doesnt get many steals, but he is considered the best perimeter defender in the game.

Parker cannot handle physical play. hes not very strong. when he gets beat, hes not good at finding a way to recover and make a play. those are qualities that an excellent defender has. Parker is an average defender at best. aside from his speed, he has no defensive qualities that stand out, and incredible speed isnt very important at all, as shown in other elite defenders.

[pichichi63]

where was Jordan's dominant center/forward? and Shaq was hardly dominant in the finals last year.

oh, and Duncan can win without Parker. even more, Parker isnt even the second best player on the team. there is no way in that he is a better basketball player than Ginobili. while i think some people overrate him a bit (when calling him the best player in the NBA or a Superstar), he is one of the most creative players in the league, has a well balanced offensive attack, plays strong defense, and hustles. i dont think he is as talented as several other SGs in the league, but he works hard, makes plays, and is much more capable of creating his own shot than parker. he is also capable of handling pressure and physical play without backing down. he steps up when needed.

This season, Gino is unstopable!!!!!

[SequSpur]

Tony Parker is the best player in the world.

[stretch]

Tony Parker is the best player in the world.

, you stumped me there. I can't argue with that logic.

[spursreport]

i never said hes a complete scrub. i think hes a decent player that has some skills. but hes not an all-star unless he plays with a superstar, like Duncan in this case. hes still not a very good shooter. he only hits wide open shots. when people contest his jumpers, hes not a great shooter at all. put just a little pressure on any jumper of his, its about a 95% guarantee that it wont go in. his defense is still very average. and im not sure where you got the idea that hes really tough. its a known fact that his kryptonite is physical play. get rough with him, and he plays like . his passing is very average. i dont see him making many tough passes at all. and a good 3-4 assists of his come from feeding duncan inside. if he plays 34 minutes a game, and can only average 6 assists per game playing with Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, thats not showing much in terms of his passing ability. and he has about a 2-1 assist-turnover ratio, which also is not saying much about his passing and desicion making.

however, there are defintely some positives about his game as well. hes a very good finisher. hes very quick which helps his penetration. he usually hits wide open mid-range jumpers. however, those three things are not enough to make you an all-star on your own. if he can play the way he does, without Tim Duncan, and lead a team on his own, then yea, ill say hes an all-star. but if he and Ginobili together, who you guys say are all-stars (and many even call them superstars) then how come a couple years ago, the Spurs went a measly 6-7 without Duncan? typically, its said that 2 superstars are essential for a Championship team. so how come these "superstars" didnt do a whole lot, or lead their team to victory? how come also, when Tim Duncan leaves the game, the team's efficiency ratings drop significantly? according to 82games.com, when Tim Duncan leaves the court, the efficiency rating drops a whopping net 12.6 points. and his presence per 100 possesions also results in the team in scoring 11 more points than the opponent. Tony Parker's presence per 100 possessions actually shows a drop of 1.9 points. granted, this isnt really the best way to show whether a player is all-star material or not, but it clearly shows that Duncan's presence is FAR more essential to the Spurs success than Parker's. Duncan can win a le without Parker. Parker cannot win a le without Duncan (or some sort of superstar).

Bump

[jag]

damn. Self Ownage?

[gilmor]

are you kidding me? Parker has not shown any ability to be an excellent defender. if you mean by getting steals, that doesnt mean much. steals is probably the most overrated defensive stat. Bruce Bowen doesnt get many steals, but he is considered the best perimeter defender in the game.

Parker cannot handle physical play. hes not very strong. when he gets beat, hes not good at finding a way to recover and make a play. those are qualities that an excellent defender has. Parker is an average defender at best. aside from his speed, he has no defensive qualities that stand out, and incredible speed isnt very important at all, as shown in other elite defenders.

Have you watched the Spurs vs Nuggets and Spurs vs Suns series?

Parker almost single handedly shut down Iverson and Barbosa..

Watch more games before you ing post.. you seem like an imbecile

[spursreport]

Have you watched the Spurs vs Nuggets and Spurs vs Suns series?

Parker almost single handedly shut down Iverson and Barbosa..

Watch more games before you ing post.. you seem like an imbecile

Stretch has been saying this about Parker all season. Parker needs Duncan to be good and that he would trust Devin Harris and Jason Terry in the clutch then he would Tony Parker.

[michaelwcho]

Stretch has been saying this about Parker all season. Parker needs Duncan to be good and that he would trust Devin Harris and Jason Terry in the clutch then he would Tony Parker.

He really thinks Devin Harris and Jason Terry are more clutch than Parker?

[spursreport]

He really thinks Devin Harris and Jason Terry are more clutch than Parker?

Yep he said it all season long. He would trust both of those players in the clutch more than Parker.

[Nathan Explosion]

Everyone will point to Parker's Finals MVP as proof that he's the best Spur, but again, Marc Stein and Ric Bucher mentioned one thing that the media doesn't see, Duncan is the man who gets the offense and defense going.

In fact, Bucher kept stating that Parker was nowhere to be found in the 4th, and that it was Gino doing the scoring. And considering that Duncan was locking down the paint all playoffs, in addition to his man and being an amazing help defender, well, I can't really argue with the guy.

In this day and age, offense gets you noticed, but as Duncan (and Bowen as well) showed once again, defense wins you championships.

Parker, for all his improvement, is still the 3rd best player on the team behind Duncan and Gino. He's closed the gap considerably, which I'm thrilled with of course. But he's still not as dangerous out on the perimeter as Gino, and he definitely doesn't command the defensive respect Duncan does, which in turn allows Parker and Gino to roam free all over the court.

Parker may be the PG in name, but Duncan is the QB of the team. Anyone who watches the Spurs can see that Duncan starts the offense, and puts everyone into place on defense.

Parker is an All-Star. Duncan is the greatest PF to ever play, and will be a top 10 player of all time when he retires.

[ginobili fan]

Everyone will point to Parker's Finals MVP as proof that he's the best Spur, but again, Marc Stein and Ric Bucher mentioned one thing that the media doesn't see, Duncan is the man who gets the offense and defense going.

In fact, Bucher kept stating that Parker was nowhere to be found in the 4th, and that it was Gino doing the scoring. And considering that Duncan was locking down the paint all playoffs, in addition to his man and being an amazing help defender, well, I can't really argue with the guy.

In this day and age, offense gets you noticed, but as Duncan (and Bowen as well) showed once again, defense wins you championships.

Parker, for all his improvement, is still the 3rd best player on the team behind Duncan and Gino. He's closed the gap considerably, which I'm thrilled with of course. But he's still not as dangerous out on the perimeter as Gino, and he definitely doesn't command the defensive respect Duncan does, which in turn allows Parker and Gino to roam free all over the court.

Parker may be the PG in name, but Duncan is the QB of the team. Anyone who watches the Spurs can see that Duncan starts the offense, and puts everyone into place on defense.

Parker is an All-Star. Duncan is the greatest PF to ever play, and will be a top 10 player of all time when he retires.

Yeah but honestly Gino isn't the 2nd best anymore,it's clearly parker and he has a better finish and perimeter game...this year.

[Nathan Explosion]

Parker will pass up Gino when he develops consistent 3 point range. Oh, and when he finishes strong in the 4th, like Gino does.

I think Parker has closed the gap, but Duncan is the obvious #1, and Gino's ability to close out games in the 4th is what separates him from Parker.

Look at the numbers he's put up in limited minutes because he was moved to the bench. The guy is fearless, and as much as Parker has improved, I'd still rather have the ball in Gino's hands compared to Parker.

[Freeze]

Parker will pass up Gino when he develops consistent 3 point range.

Parker was 4/7 in the finals (57%)
Ginobili was 10/23 (43%)

[SpursIndonesia]

LOL, without Tony's scoring with high efficiency in the first place, there will be NO closing Ginobili in the 4th, atleast that's the story for 2007 postseason. Not to mention his solid defense against top tier PG throughout the playoff. I don't even regard Tony all that high among other PGs of the league, but the amount of disrespect from his own team fans in this forum simply amazes me.

He might have deserved some of the heat in the past, but after his 2007 playoff performance, it's just a silly IGNORANCE in my book -some people just can't accept present reality, and still clinging on past memories.

[SpursIndonesia]

And considering that Manu is still our best closer -one of the best in the league, and arguably perhaps even better than Duncan- why would Tony try to supplant him as our main closer, fact that Manu is still doing his job well enough ? I see him playing with strong poise and confidence in the 4th this year, culminating in the post season, gone are his silly 4th Q TO's and mental meltdown, and that's still not ENOUGH ??

[FuzzyLumpkins]

[/B]

Wade cannot win a le without shaq
Kobe cannot win a le without shaq
Magic cannot win a le without Jabar

To win the Nba le, you must have a dominant center or forward!
Don't forget that!!!

Michael Jordan and Isaih Thomas say o.