Was it a foul

[ponky]

finley, yes it was a foul but the Duncan one was definitely a phantom call.

this is the correct answer...besides, what's the point of this thread? don't whine about the calls, you got most of them 25 FTAs to the Mavs 15

[ponky]

seriously we cant have it both ways, had we won the game im sure mavsfans would be complain about duncans no calls.....i think that sums it up for every star player in the league.

i dont think non of us should be complaining, since we shouldve lost this game in the first quarter by a team who didnt show up to play defense.

i agree with this and i was surprised that the mavs jumped out to an early lead because i thought if anything, we'd have to come from behind like we seem to be doing a lot of lately with the exception of the blowout against the wizards...i hate mavs fans that about officiating because in the end, the no calls and wrong calls USUALLY even out and both teams end up with some of each...that it happens at the end of a game as opposed to the middle doesn't matter, just don't put yourself in that position way before the last minute of the game

[gospursgojas]

YES IT WAS A FOUL

I hate it when people say "you shouldn't have let it come down to that". Players are going to miss their shots and miss their free throws, it a part of the game. So I wish the refs would just call the game as they see it. TWO refs were looking right at the play and chose not to call it. The only difference in the two calls was one was on Harris and the other would have been on Dirk.

[ponky]

YES IT WAS A FOUL

I hate it when people say "you shouldn't have let it come down to that". Players are going to miss their shots and miss their free throws, it a part of the game. So I wish the refs would just call the game as they see it. TWO refs were looking right at the play and chose not to call it. The only difference in the two calls was one was on Harris and the other would have been on Dirk.

I wish the refs would call the game AND see it. There were a couple of no calls on the Mavs in the middle of the game that pissed me off at the time, but whatever, happens, no need to . Also, the reason people say you shouldn't let it get down to that is because the Spurs are not the greatest FT shooting team and Duncan's perfect trio of FTs is not a sure thing most times so you don't need ot put your team in that situation if it 's not their greatest strength. Why do that when you could just play with more effort and win the game without worrying about whether or not your poor FT shooting team can make the shots under pressure in the fourth?

[RonMexico]

Not only was it a foul, but Dirk traveled with about 18 seconds left (could have left SA with more time to get off a shot at the end). This game was further proof that the kid gloves come out when the big German is in town (in SA or Phoenix) - Dirk has numerous phantom fouls per game, so what if Duncan gets one that an actual MVP winner deserves!!! I wish someone would take the time to find such stats, but I'm sure Dirk is the first 3rd place MVP vote getter to garner more sympathy from the refs than actually winners. I surely wish Cuban would send clips of this game into the league; since he cares so much about the quality of the officiating, it would only be consistent.

One positive thing that Spurs fans can take away from this is the extreme class exhibited by the team and coaching staff. When Duncan and Finely were (appropriately) irate at the no call, Pop just walked over and patted his boys on the back and calmly led them into the locker room. Of course, he did pause to look at the replay one more time to confirm how bad the call was before he walked to the back. Imagine if Baby Dirky or Jason "the Choke" Terry had been in Finely's position, Cuban and Avery (who is slowly becoming the biggest pussy coach in the league) would have run onto the floor, jumping and screaming and berating the refs and then AJ would complain about them more in the press conference and Terry would have punched all 3 refs in the balls. This class is the reason the Spurs have championships and the Mavs don't and never will.

[ponky]

I wish someone would take the time to find such stats, but I'm sure Dirk is the first 3rd place MVP vote getter to garner more sympathy from the refs than actually winners. I surely wish Cuban would send clips of this game into the league; since he cares so much about the quality of the officiating, it would only be consistent.

Actually, I can help you out there, I keep a running total of this particular stat and I have it for last year, the playoffs and this season. I can send them to you or post them later but I don't think you'll like what you see. It won't help your argument any.

[FlipMavFan]

Total Effd up refereeing. Couldnt believe the kind of calls they had on both our teams tonight. Umm... Calling the attention of Mr. Stern?

[jochhejaam]

I'm not sure if it would have affected the outcome, but the refs swallowing their whistles on that was inexcusable.

Overall a great game between 2 of the top 3 teams in the league (Utah the 3rd team).

[dirk4mvp]

Not only was it a foul, but Dirk traveled with about 18 seconds left (could have left SA with more time to get off a shot at the end). This game was further proof that the kid gloves come out when the big German is in town (in SA or Phoenix) - Dirk has numerous phantom fouls per game, so what if Duncan gets one that an actual MVP winner deserves!!! I wish someone would take the time to find such stats, but I'm sure Dirk is the first 3rd place MVP vote getter to garner more sympathy from the refs than actually winners. I surely wish Cuban would send clips of this game into the league; since he cares so much about the quality of the officiating, it would only be consistent.

One positive thing that Spurs fans can take away from this is the extreme class exhibited by the team and coaching staff. When Duncan and Finely were (appropriately) irate at the no call, Pop just walked over and patted his boys on the back and calmly led them into the locker room. Of course, he did pause to look at the replay one more time to confirm how bad the call was before he walked to the back. Imagine if Baby Dirky or Jason "the Choke" Terry had been in Finely's position, Cuban and Avery (who is slowly becoming the biggest pussy coach in the league) would have run onto the floor, jumping and screaming and berating the refs and then AJ would complain about them more in the press conference and Terry would have punched all 3 refs in the balls. This class is the reason the Spurs have championships and the Mavs don't and never will.

D'antoni already has pussiest coach in the league on a wrap.




But here's a summary of your PMS summary.





You'd figure as much of a pussy your entire team is, you'd have no nerve at all to call somebody that.

[Mavs<Spurs]

i agree with this and i was surprised that the mavs jumped out to an early lead because i thought if anything, we'd have to come from behind like we seem to be doing a lot of lately with the exception of the blowout against the wizards...i hate mavs fans that about officiating because in the end, the no calls and wrong calls USUALLY even out and both teams end up with some of each...that it happens at the end of a game as opposed to the middle doesn't matter, just don't put yourself in that position way before the last minute of the game

You're right, we should not have let it come down to that.
If we had played hard and better defense in the first half, then it looks like the refs would have been irrelevant. Since we can't control whether the calls go our way (as we see it), we need to work harder on the things that we can control.
And it's just too hard to win after you spot a good team, a 17 point lead.
Good win, mavs. You played harder for more minutes and you won. That's the bottom line.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Spurs need to stop getting down by 15-20 points in games and then they won't have to crawl their way back and worry about a single call that can go one way or another.

Even a lot of the Spurs wins this season, they have been down big. Sure a couple of those come from behind wins build character and all that jazz. But at some point, they need to stop getting down big.

Yup. Right as usual, Kori.
I'm more disappointed by our lack of intensity, our lack of defense in the first half and our acquisition of such a large deficit, than by the bad calls of the refs.

I just don't understand why we didn't come out to play this game hard for the full 48 minutes.

[bulletedge]

After totally choking away the Finals last year and after starting out 0-4 this season it looks like the Mavs have started to get things back on track. It was a big win- and a surprising one. I hope it comes down to Mavs and Spurs in the WCF.

RE: calls and non-calls...this IS the NBA where the officiating will drive any true basketball fan absolutely nuts. But, I am glad to see that they have cracked down on all of the whining...Cuban needed to have a muzzle put on him and so far it is working. Also, I am glad to see many more walking and palming calls. If they're not careful they may even return the game to some semblance of the game Naismith invented!

[td4mvp21]

Guys come on, the Duncan foul was total BS. Those kind of calls on Dirk drive us nuts. The Finley foul should have definitely been called but it was payback for the bad call on Duncan. The refs sucked for both teams tonight, I wish for once they could be consistent. They were calling nothing in the first quarter then they started to call everything in the second, etc.

But the Spurs need to not rely on the refs for wins. Why this team wasn't motivated enough to win on its OWN COURT after being beat there in Game 7 last season aggravates me. We let the Mavs jump on us early-they came out aggressive and we came out our typical lackadaisical selves.

[jmard5]

Did anyone see Devin Harris drive right through the hoop with Duncan just writhing in pain about 2 feet away? I was sure Dampier hacked him, how could Harris make the lay-up so wide open like it was just practice?

I saw that one. Dampier pulled Duncan from behind, hence Harris got an uncontested layup.

[jmard5]

this is the correct answer...besides, what's the point of this thread? don't whine about the calls, you got most of them 25 FTAs to the Mavs 15

This is where you are wrong. Mavs have fewer freethrows because most of your plays came from jump shots and you have better FG%. Spurs played a lot more in the paint.

Quit pointing out FT discrepancies.

[CaptainLate]

You're right, we should not have let it come down to that.

Spurs should have gone for the quick layup. You can figure that all teams, when up by three with under a minute to go don't want to foul a player driving to the basket as the clock winds down -- right Manu?

So get your quick two and foul someone OTHER THAN DIRK, right Bowen?

[RonMexico]

Actually, I can help you out there, I keep a running total of this particular stat and I have it for last year, the playoffs and this season. I can send them to you or post them later but I don't think you'll like what you see. It won't help your argument any.

I highly doubt that - Dirk already has a 200 FT attempt advantage from last year's playoffs - Duncan and Nash (two MVP winners) aren't anywhere close to catching up with that.

[RonMexico]

D'antoni already has pussiest coach in the league on a wrap.




But here's a summary of your PMS summary.





You'd figure as much of a pussy your entire team is, you'd have no nerve at all to call somebody that.

Ironically, all the Mavs fans posted last year that they were tired of hearing how "scrappy, resilient, and tough" the Suns were last year and in the playoffs.

According to Webster's, "pussy" is defined as - "rolling your ankle awkwardly on a champion's foot both to foul that player out and call attention to your non-injury as you're crying and writhing on the ground. Then, when you shamelessly buy your way into the playoffs (see: Mark Cuban's NBA fine recap), you confirm status as pussy by throwing up 0 PT 4th quarters in important games."

Other definitions include, "punching former teammates in the balls and stealing Kenny Smith's nickname"; and "any use of the term 'bear-hug'"

[cherylsteele]

Oh, you mavs fans saying it was no foul are pretty funny.

'twas a foul...but it wasn't a foul on the shot. The foul was before the shot, it would've been a two shot foul.

I think you hit it right on the head.
The only way to win it from the line in this scenario is to make the first shot and miss the second intentionally, get a rebound and a quick follow shot. The chances for this are not good, especially the way the Spurs played in the game.

People have already said it.....make a better percentage from the line during the game and you would not be in that position most of the time.

This is where you are wrong. Mavs have fewer free throws because most of your plays came from jump shots and you have better FG%. Spurs played a lot more in the paint.

You are wrong.....sorry.
When you get more free throws it usually means you are being more aggressive going to the basket. When you get foul called in your favor you need to make sure it pays off by making the free throw.

Plus making the free throws can change the pace of the game and the way teams play later during the game.

[1Parker1]

The Finley foul was questionable...though if anything it would have been a 2 shot foul, definitely not a 3 shot foul since Dirk didn't hit him as he went up to shoot.

I was ok with the officiating of this game, I thought there were some questionable calls that went both ways. The only thing that pissed me off were the 2 or 3 traveling calls they kept calling on Parker, yet when Dirk did it so blatantly in the end, he didn't get called for it.

[jmard5]

You are wrong.....sorry.
When you get more free throws it usually means you are being more aggressive going to the basket. When you get foul called in your favor you need to make sure it pays off by making the free throw.

Plus making the free throws can change the pace of the game and the way teams play later during the game.

I was referring to the Mavs having fewer FTs than the Spurs in that game because they jumped shot a lot (with higher accuracy). Have you read my post wrong?

[ponky]

I highly doubt that - Dirk already has a 200 FT attempt advantage from last year's playoffs - Duncan and Nash (two MVP winners) aren't anywhere close to catching up with that.

05-06 Season totals INCLUDING THE PLAYOFFS

FTAs taken:

Duncan - 533
Nowitzki - 598
Wade - 803

Keep in mind that Nowitzki and Wade went on to play TWELVE more games than Duncan last season because of the playoffs. Of course, in reality because the first round went six games for the Spurs and four games for the Mavs I guess you could say that Dirk only played ten more playoff games than Duncan. One other interesting bit is that in game four against the grizzlies, Dirk didn't go to the line once during the entire game.

Since you made a sarcastic remark about Dirk's FTA advantage due to last season's playoffs here's the breakdown for the WC semis.


Gm1 Duncan 7-12 Nowitzki 4-6
Gm2 Duncan 12-14 Nowitzki 7-7
Gm3 Duncan 5-8 Nowitzki 21-24
Gm4 Duncan 7-8 Nowitzki 14-15
Gm5 Duncan 10-15 Nowitzki 4-4
Gm6 Duncan 8-10 Nowitzki 8-8
Gm7 Duncan 17-23 Nowitzki 15-16

I'm sure you can add but just to save you some time, Duncan took ten more free throws in the series than did Dirk. The only reason SOME Spurs fans ed about the officiating is because Games 3/4 were the only games where Duncan wasn't sent to the line for double digit FTAs. Mavs fans could easily about Games 1,2,5 and there are some who do, but I don't think officiating decides a game so I refrain from ing although I can't deny that I'll get mad about a call here and there while watching a game. I just keep these stats out of curiosity because when I hear people make statements like the one you made (Dirk's advantage) then I have to go and check to see if it's true...and of course, it's not.


This season, Duncan and Dirk both have 110 FTAs and Wade has 149, all have played 13 games apiece.


Oh yes, I know people like to break it down and use paint/jumpers to make a distinction about the FTAs but sometimes people make that distinction only when it's advantageous to their position. I could probably make the case for Devin Harris since he drove to the paint a lot more in last year's series but I doubt he got the calls that Parker did, although I'm not certain, I'll check. Anyway, people get fouled shooting jumpers all the time when they are double-teamed as is Dirk so often. You can't assume that all these jumpers are wide open (thus less of a chance for a foul), there's no way a good defensive team like the Spurs would leave a guy like Dirk open and not guard him closely. It just doesn't seem as aggressive a foul as it does when it's in the paint...BUT, a foul is a foul is a foul.

[SPURS vs NBA media]

Refs paid tooooooo much attention on Dubcan at that point of time.

hawks fan

[SPURS vs NBA media]

2 games against the mavs. no call, at the buzzer game 7 and Friday game

that really SUCKS

[ponky]

2 games against the mavs. no call, at the buzzer game 7 and Friday game

that really SUCKS

I guess you can add that to your history lesson along with the story about the three rings you guys like to teach others about.