Rosen: Duncan, "The best"

[TheTruth]

How can he not put Dirk in there? I'm sorry, Billups and Marion before Dirk?? what is he smoking??

I'm not trying to say that Dirk isn't better than both of those guys, but Rosen did state in the article that Defense was an important part of his rankings. Dirk still isn't that great a defensive player.

[Supergirl]

Marion is consistently one of the most underrated players in the game. He's the real reason the Suns have been compe ors for the last few years. He's a much better all around player than Nash, and definitely deserves to be in the top players in the league list.
My list...
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Lebron James
6. Allen Iverson
7. Shawn Marion
8. Chauncey Billups
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Yao Ming

Injuries is the only thing that keep Tracy McGrady off that list...

[ponky]

All this talk about Dirk and he's not even on the list. Sounds about right to me. Last time I checked the last TWO concurrent All-Stars we had playing on the same team were Dirk and Finley, Dirk and Nash, different years quite some time ago. Right now, Dirk's the only All-Star and he has a good but not great team, although JHO is coming along just fine. I could give a about lists, be at the top of a list, doesn't matter to me.

[wildbill2u]

Yao is really coming up in the rankings this year. I think Yao belongs in the top 8.

[ShoogarBear]

Even if KG was being a monster and averaging 40 a game, the Spurs can handle that (See: Stoudemire, Amare). What the Spurs couldn't handle was a big they had to guard with a small. How many times have you seen Bowen switched off on KG?



Uh, Dirk averaged 27.1 points and 13.3 rebounds while shooting 53% from the floor. He also got to the free-throw line 80 times where he shot over 90%. He averaged 1.73 points per shot, by far the best number on the Mavs. No one outside of Dirk shot over 45% for the series against the Spurs.

Dirk was the one hitting the clutch shots from the field and the line in games 3, 4 and 7. Dirk was awesome. I dislike the Mavs as much as anyone but I have to show respect where respect is due.

Dirk was a machine and was playing at a higher level than KG ever has.

So,

letting Amare destroy the Spurs with 35 PPG on dunks but preventing others from getting theirs = sound playoff philosophy,

but letting Dirk get 35 PPG shooting jumpshots but preventing others from getting theirs = Basketball Apocalypse?

[ShoogarBear]

Just because Rosen put Duncan #1, it does not make him any less of a senile, Phil Jackson-gumballing asshat.

On this we can all agree.

[Nikos]

So,

letting Amare destroy the Spurs with 35 PPG on dunks but preventing others from getting theirs = sound playoff philosophy,

but letting Dirk get 35 PPG shooting jumpshots but preventing others from getting theirs = Basketball Apocalypse?

As an aside I find it interesting that the Spurs had Duncan playing better than Dirk, Manu playing better than either JHO or Terry (with Parker about as good as both), and they still lost. Tells you how well Dallas matched up, and how deep they proved to be against the Spurs. They had some solid interior defense despite Duncan tearing them up at times. They got rebounds when they needed to. Dallas is just a tough matchup either way. They have more guys contributing on their team come playoff time (at least vs the Spurs). That proved to be the difference moreso than Dirk being a monster etc... (Although he did play excellent).

[milkyway21]

1. Tim Duncan: Because he does everything. Score, rebound, pass and defend. And because an outstanding big can directly and indirectly influence any given ball game much more so than a little or a medium.

2. Kobe Bryant: Because he also can do everything (when the spirit and/or Phil Jackson moves him). Kobe is certainly the best non-big in the game, a superb rebounder, an unparalleled clutch scorer, a terrific prac ioner of both perimeter shot-making and irresistible penetrations, a potential shut-down defender (see the above qualification) and an adept (if not always an eager) passer. It's his versatility that separates him from the other non-centers.

3. Dwyane Wade: Because of his dynamic talents, his clutch performances and because he works hard to improve his weaknesses (defense and outside shooting).

4. LeBron James: Because of his rare combination of skills, speed and strength. LBJ is not rated any higher because his defense is still atrocious, and because his long-distance dialing remains iffy.

5. Steve Nash: Because of the (nearly) unblemished fashion in which he orchestrates the Suns' offense. Indeed, it's Nash's vision, unselfishness and ability to create his own shot opportunities that have unilaterally made a terrific team out of what is only a good team. His only flaws are a total lack of straight-up defense and a fragile physique.

6. Shawn Marion: Because he can score without having his number called, he can rebound like a big and he can play top-notch defense (albeit not as consistently as he used to).

7. Chauncey Billups: Because he's a master of all trades. In the clutch, Billups can come up with whatever play is needed to produce a win — from a score to a rebound to a stop to a perfect pass.

i think Kevin Garnett shld be on that short list even if his team sucks.

I'm not a fan of KG but i respect his ball handling and passion playing basketball.

LeBron is sometimes overhyped.

[Obstructed_View]

As an aside I find it interesting that the Spurs had Duncan playing better than Dirk, Manu playing better than either JHO or Terry (with Parker about as good as both), and they still lost. Tells you how important Rasho and Nazr were to the team's interior defense.

Fixed.

[TwoHandJam]

Uh, Dirk averaged 27.1 points and 13.3 rebounds while shooting 53% from the floor. He also got to the free-throw line 80 times where he shot over 90%. He averaged 1.73 points per shot, by far the best number on the Mavs. No one outside of Dirk shot over 45% for the series against the Spurs.

Dirk was the one hitting the clutch shots from the field and the line in games 3, 4 and 7. Dirk was awesome. I dislike the Mavs as much as anyone but I have to show respect where respect is due.

Dirk was a machine and was playing at a higher level than KG ever has.

If Dirk was such an animal then how come he let his team fold like a cheap card table against a team like Miami? A team I think you're on record as saying we would have beaten pretty handily. Lets face it, Dirk is a great player but Pop's lack of a defensive long 3 coupled with the ill-fated small-ball experiment made him appear much better in that series than he really is.

Bowen is a great defender but you can't hope to stop a player with talent who is fully 5 inches taller than you for an entire series. And one can't minimize the rest of the Dallas team for their success. Because of Pop's ridiculous attempt to have guards play the role of bigs in the system, Dallas shot 50% or better against us as a team for 3 out of the 7 games in the series. That is clearly not Spurs defense. I can't remember a team shooting that well against us in a series since the debacle that was 2001 and the last minute change-up in the system had a lot to do with it.

No doubt Dirk is a great player but he hasn't reached the upper echelon yet in my book. You can't get your team to the finals and then fold that badly on the biggest stage there is in the NBA.

[milkyway21]

I'd like to bring back this thread to frontpage to acknowledge Duncan as the best since the start of the 2006-07 season:


Lenovo Breakdown: Nov. 28
By Dave McMenamin

What is the Lenovo Stat?
The Lenovo Stat shows the power of teamwork. It's a way of showing the best-engineered/best combination of players on the court. The Lenovo Stat is a plus/minus statistic that looks at the point differential when players are both in and out of the game, to see how the team performs with various combinations. The Lenovo Stat can look at a variety of combinations – including the best two-player, three-player and even five-player combinations for each game.
Here is a look at the top Lenovo performers through the fourth week of the 2006-07 NBA season:


Five-Player Combination
+ 76 T. McGrady, R. Alston, S. Battier, Yao, C. Hayes
+ 62 M. Camby, A. Miller, E. Najera, C. Anthony, J. Smith
+ 47 P. Pierce, W. Szczerbiak, K. Perkins, S. Telfair, R. Gomes


Last week's top three five-player combinations still reign at the top of the Lenovo leaderboard, but the order has been switched around. The Rockets, owners of a three-game winning streak, jumped from second place at +48, to first place at +76. Denver moved from third to second as a five-game unbeaten stretch helped their positive production go from +39 to +62. Boston stayed steady as it dipped only slightly from +49 to +47 to occupy the third spot. Houston, Denver and Boston have a significant lead over their compe ion as the next closest group is the Bucks' Ruben Patterson, Michael Redd, Maurice Williams, Andrew Bogut and Charlie Villanueva at +35.


Four-Player Combination
+ 82 T. McGrady, R. Alston, S. Battier, C. Hayes
+ 77 T. McGrady, R. Alston, Y. Ming, C. Hayes
+ 77 T. McGrady, S. Battier, Y. Ming, C. Hayes
+ 73 R. Alston, S. Battier, Y. Ming, C. Hayes


The Rockets claim the top five four-player combinations after having the group of Tracy McGrady, Rafer Alston, Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes come in tied for second last week at +54. Out of the Rockets' top four four-player sets, amazingly the one constant player is Chuck Hayes and not T-Mac or Yao. Denver is the first team outside of Clutch City to pop up as Marcus Camby, Eduardo Najera, Carmelo Anthony and Joe Smith check in at sixth place with +66.


Three-Player Combination
+ 96 T. McGrady, R. Alston, C. Hayes
+ 84 R. Alston, Y. Ming, C. Hayes
+ 83 T. McGrady, S. Battier, C. Hayes


The 9-4 Rockets have many believing they will nab a playoff spot in the ultra-compe ive Western Conference and Houston has the three-man chemistry to help with that quest. McGrady, Alston and Hayes are the Rockets' top trio, nearing triple digits with a +96 rating. Houston has the top six groups overall. Phoenix has numbers seven and eight with the combinations of Steve Nash, Shawn Marion and Raja Bell as well as Nash, Marion and Leandro Barbosa holding at +72.


Two-Player Combination
+ 103 A. Biedrins, M. Ellis
+ 101 R. Alston, C. Hayes
+ 97 T. McGrady, C. Hayes


Who are the top duo, you ask? Andris Biedrins, third-year center out of Latvia, is averaging a double-double while Monta Ellis, second-year guard out of Lanier High School in Mississippi, is scoring 17.7 points per game. Golden State is 9-6 and third in the league in scoring, averaging 106.7 points per game, thanks in part to the young coupling of Biedrins and Ellis. Two more Rockets pairs round out the top three.


One Player
+ 105 T. Duncan
+ 102 C. Hayes
+ 100 S. Nash


For the fourth week in a row, there is a new No. 1 Lenovo individual. Tim Duncan boosted his number from +82 to +105 as the Spurs continue to roll at 11-4 overall. Hayes, who was No. 1 after Week 2, is in second and back-to-back MVP Steve Nash is in third. Last week's top player, Matt Harpring, is in sixth at +83.


Duncan and;

wow: the Rockets made it in all of the categories?

[timvp]

Anyone want to revive the Dirk vs. KG debate?

In the last two games, we saw perfect examples of their respective games. Dirk has evolved into a machine that can't be stopped. KG is his team's third or fourth option when it's money time.

KG is a great player in the first three quarters ... but in the fourth he goes into Brent Barry mode. How do you guard Dirk? Spurs put a big on him almost all night and he destroyed them.

[Billy Cobham]

You guard Dirk with Rasheed Wallace.