Finley's Slump

[Kori Ellis]

I keep seeing 6-0 when he plays 20+ minutes

Did you ever think that's because when the Spurs are winning, he gets a lot of garbage minutes and gets over 20 mpg?

[timvp]

Can you post those Duncan with Elson numbers?

Only the top 50 player combinations are available. Here they are:

Player 1  	Player 2  	Team  	PLUS  	MINUS  	+/-  	Games
B. Bowen 	T. Duncan 	Spurs 	1,058 	-989 	69 	17
B. Barry 	T. Duncan 	Spurs 	464 	-398 	66 	16
B. Barry 	B. Bowen 	Spurs 	414 	-353 	61 	16
T. Duncan 	T. Parker 	Spurs 	1,016 	-956 	60 	17
T. Duncan 	M. Ginobili 	Spurs 	580 	-525 	55 	13
T. Duncan 	F. Oberto 	Spurs 	595 	-541 	54 	17
F. Elson 	M. Ginobili 	Spurs 	232 	-188 	44 	13
M. Finley 	B. Udrih 	Spurs 	336 	-293 	43 	16
B. Bowen 	T. Parker 	Spurs 	994 	-952 	42 	17
B. Bowen 	B. Udrih 	Spurs 	200 	-158 	42 	15
R. Horry 	B. Udrih 	Spurs 	264 	-223 	41 	15
F. Elson 	B. Udrih 	Spurs 	333 	-293 	40 	17
M. Ginobili 	T. Parker 	Spurs 	570 	-530 	40 	13
T. Parker 	F. Oberto 	Spurs 	636 	-597 	39 	17
B. Bowen 	F. Oberto 	Spurs 	585 	-548 	37 	17
R. Horry 	T. Duncan 	Spurs 	274 	-239 	35 	16
M. Finley 	M. Ginobili 	Spurs 	220 	-185 	35 	13
T. Duncan 	B. Udrih 	Spurs 	212 	-181 	31 	17
B. Barry 	M. Ginobili 	Spurs 	173 	-144 	29 	11
M. Ginobili 	B. Udrih 	Spurs 	210 	-182 	28 	13
B. Barry 	F. Oberto 	Spurs 	248 	-222 	26 	15
R. Horry 	B. Bowen 	Spurs 	304 	-280 	24 	16
M. Ginobili 	F. Oberto 	Spurs 	438 	-415 	23 	13
B. Barry 	T. Parker 	Spurs 	409 	-387 	22 	16
R. Horry 	M. Ginobili 	Spurs 	198 	-178 	20 	12
B. Barry  	B. Udrih  	Spurs  	 331  	 -311  	 20  	 16
B. Bowen 	M. Ginobili 	Spurs 	498 	-480 	18 	13
B. Udrih 	F. Oberto 	Spurs 	108 	-92 	16 	12
R. Horry 	B. Barry 	Spurs 	236 	-224 	12 	15
T. Duncan 	J. Vaughn 	Spurs 	25 	-15 	10 	3
B. Bowen 	M. Bonner 	Spurs 	31 	-22 	9 	6
M. Finley 	T. Duncan 	Spurs 	398 	-390 	8 	17
J. Vaughn 	M. Ginobili 	Spurs 	15 	-7 	8 	2
F. Elson 	F. Oberto 	Spurs 	47 	-40 	7 	9
E. Williams 	T. Duncan 	Spurs 	20 	-14 	6 	2
E. Williams 	B. Bowen 	Spurs 	20 	-15 	5 	1
R. Horry 	M. Finley 	Spurs 	287 	-283 	4 	15
M. Finley 	F. Oberto 	Spurs 	203 	-199 	4 	14
R. Horry 	F. Elson 	Spurs 	171 	-168 	3 	15
E. Williams 	J. Vaughn 	Spurs 	5 	-2 	3 	1
E. Williams 	F. Elson 	Spurs 	24 	-21 	3 	4
M. Finley 	J. Butler 	Spurs 	8 	-5 	3 	1
T. Duncan 	M. Bonner 	Spurs 	24 	-21 	3 	4
J. Vaughn 	T. Parker 	Spurs 	3 	0 	3 	1
M. Ginobili 	M. Bonner 	Spurs 	45 	-42 	3 	4
E. Williams 	B. Udrih 	Spurs 	24 	-22 	2 	4
M. Finley 	J. Vaughn 	Spurs 	8 	-6 	2 	3
B. Bowen 	F. Elson 	Spurs 	255 	-253 	2 	15
R. Horry 	J. Butler 	Spurs 	2 	-1 	1 	1
E. Williams 	M. Ginobili 	Spurs 	1 	0 	1 	1

The Elson-Duncan combo is nowhere to be found. Duncan with Oberto, Horry and even Bonner makes the Top 50. Safe to say it's not a very flattering number.

[cherylsteele]

Manny i would say he was good in last years playoffs vs Dallas. He also hit the big late 3 pter which would have helped us be Champs if not for the ManuFart.

I seen to remember that Manu hit that big 3 ptr and then made had the brain fart right after that.

[ShoogarBear]

What's weird is that this is the first year i can remember where Bruce seems to be having decent +/-. Usually his +/- sucks.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't get his low +/- numbers either. It's not because he is playing with the bench, because his +/- numbers are bad even playing with the rest of the starters. The player Duncan plays worst with according to +/- numbers? Elson.

If I had to take a guess, his low +/- numbers are indicative of him not rotating fast enough on defense combined with the rest of the team not trusting him to rotate. If they don't trust him to be in the right spot, the other players will be out of position more often and that leads to poor defense. It's not all Elson's fault, but as of right now the Spurs don't play well when he's on the court.

This is what I'm not sure about. I know he misses a lot of rotations. I see it. But I also see that other players (Bruce/Manu for example) leave their man and are out of position because they don't trust that he'll rotate, then that fricks up the rest of the D. So I don't know if it would be worse to just let him rotate late, or it's better that they are trying to help him and getting out of positon themselves. All I know, is this quandry is probably what makes the D worse when he's in. I think that he's athletic enough that he's worth having on the floor in a lot of situations, so I'm not sure when he's going to earn his minutes back.

[Kori Ellis]

What's weird is that this is the first year i can remember where Bruce seems to be having decent +/-. Usually his +/- sucks.

His +/- has sucked in the past because he was always the last starter stuck out on the court with all bench players. This year, it seems his time on the bench is more often the same time as Tim. (So he's getting more on court time with Tim and better +/-.)

[Kori Ellis]

All I know is Manu needs to hurry back. Bruce logging 42+ every night in this stretch can't be good for later in the season.

[Fabbs]

I seen to remember that Manu hit that big 3 ptr and then made had the brain fart right after that.

There were actually two big treys. Finleys pulled us from 97-101 to 100-101.
SuperManus gave us a 104-101 lead and the game.

Manus was bigger. But Finleys was big.
"The Fart" erased it all.

[Tom_Foolery]

Elson getting more minutes than him is irrelevent. They dont' play the same position. I suppose you could play 4 centers out there but that might be a tad bit stupid.

You still fail to understand that due to Finley's contract he we cannot get anything back of value other than a minimum contract!!!! I don't know how to put it more plainly than that to you. You can package Finley with a larger contract, but WHY? It makes no sense whatsoever.

As far as putting it out there, thats ridiculous. Barry's situation wasn't a threat, it was a trade that was DONE but was denied by the NBA office. Pop didn't go up to Barry and tell him I'm shopping you around, he told him pack your bags you're a Hornet. I am quite certain that Finley knows he is tradeable.

Um, Finley's making 3 million a year, more than the vet minimum.


where did you get "VET MINIMUM" from? could you provide a link?

[Tom_Foolery]

The collective bargaining agreement governs the amount of salary you can give/take in a trade. Go and find a player making under 3.5 million a year you would trade Finley for.

Josh Childress

[MannyIsGod]

Josh Childress

K, I'm all for that. I'm sure Pop would be too. You think theres a realistic chance in its going to happen?

[Fabbs]

K, I'm all for that. I'm sure Pop would be too. You think theres a realistic chance in its going to happen?

No. No one would ever trade Boris Diaw and two 1st round picks for Joe Johnson. Just no way it would happen.

Or trade for Chris Webber.
Or sign Jalen Rose for two years at a remaining 16 million a year.

Negative Nancy you need to be open to possibilities.

[MannyIsGod]

K, you keep making your fantasy basketball trades with Finley. I'll remain in reality.

Want to know what all of those players you just mentioned being traded had? Huge contracts. Let me know when you grasp that Finley makes NBA peanuts.

[Tom_Foolery]

K, you keep making your fantasy basketball trades with Finley. I'll remain in reality.

Want to know what all of those players you just mentioned being traded had? Huge contracts. Let me know when you grasp that Finley makes NBA peanuts.

Josh Childress makes only 20K less than Finley, so they both make peanuts.


next.

[MannyIsGod]

Josh Childress makes only 20K less than Finley, so they both make peanuts.


next.

K, I'll give you 100 dollars if Finley gets traded for Josh Childress.

[Fabbs]

K, I'll give you 100 dollars if Finley gets traded for Josh Childress.

psssh. You should give 5,000 to 1 odds the way you are so sure he cannot be shopped and moved. Put me down for two bucks.

All the trades i gave you did happen in the real world. Their large ass contracts should have made it more difficult to move them. The Joe Johnson trade defied all logic. Also Isiah Thomas can be traded with from the real world.

Lets shop Findawg, either get a good trade for him or have him react like Barry did.
Win-Win.

[Tom_Foolery]

K, I'll give you 100 dollars if Finley gets traded for Josh Childress.

Go and find a player making under 3.5 million a year you would trade Finley for.

Josh Childress is a player making under 3.5 million a year that I would consider trading Finley for.


next.


btw, where did you get the information that Finley was making the veteran minimum? cuz, he's making more than that.

[Tom_Foolery]

I'm sorry, I forgot my flash cards at my babysitter's house. We ran out of apples & oranges at home, so my math is a little fuzzy. Being 10 years old ain't easy!

Hey, that's alright scout. Enjoy your youth. You're only 10 years old once. Don't worry about the apples & oranges, son. I'll hook you up. Christmas must be coming early for a certain MannyIsGod!

[MannyIsGod]

Uh, ok?

I was wrong with my vet minimum remark and I said so above.

Like I said, I'll give you 100 dollars when Josh Childress gets traded for Finley.

Is this the part where I post "Next?"

[MannyIsGod]

K, you keep making your fantasy basketball trades with Finley. I'll remain in reality.

[MannyIsGod]

I'll trade you one Finley rookie card for a Josh Childress rookie card!

[Tom_Foolery]

I'll trade you my Barbie + Ken Beach Fun and I'll even throw in my Easybake Oven for your Cobra Commander.

No thanks. I don't have any sisters anyway.

[MannyIsGod]

One of the best basketball posts I've ever seen. When do you think the Childress/Finley trade will break?

[Fabbs]

One of the best basketball posts I've ever seen. When do you think the Childress/Finley trade will break?

Possibly when ATL is fighting for the #8 East Playoff spot with a 20-28 record before the trade deadline.

[AFBlue]

If a past-his-prime player like Finley is made available, it will be for some obscure 2nd round pick....and Fin's not that bad, yet.

Teams don't trade developmental players for over-the-hill role players. They package multiple developmental players for that "big prize". Or they trade one prospect for another.


Side note: Joe Johnson, who looks like an all-star to me, for Boris Diaw (who had shown NOTHING at the time) and a couple of first rounders with all kinds of lottery protection....not a rediculous trade at all, though not great.