Religion is a Plague

[Yonivore]

So perhaps the problem is not so much Islam itself as a "defective" religion, but rather the medieval tendencies of contemporary Muslim cultures.

That could be but, I would argue this tendency is so pervasive and so long held as to render the religion as is believed -- a violent one that will accept nothing, from non-adherants, short of conversion, dhimmitude, or death.

There are a billion Muslims around the globe -- most of them in the Arab Middle East and Northern Africa -- and I would challenge you to find any Islamic religious leader, outside the Western World (and, to be sure, there aren't many there either -- and, even fewer willing to oppose this view publicly) that do not hold this view of Islam and preach it from their pulpits at every opportunity.

[Spurminator]

and I would challenge you to find any Islamic religious leader, outside the Western World

See? You keep qualifying the Muslims you're talking about.

If Islam is so pervasively violent, you should be able to show that from a random sampling of Muslims, regardless of wealth or geography.

[Yonivore]

See? You keep qualifying the Muslims you're talking about.

If Islam is so pervasively violent, you should be able to show that from a random sampling of Muslims, regardless of wealth or geography.

That's garbage, over 900,000 of the Muslims live in Northern Africa, Indonesia, and the Arab Middle East. I challenge you to find a moderate among them.

The others (in the West), even though I also stated the "moderates" were a minority there as well, are not a good representation of the religion.

Islam is pervasively violent.

[Extra Stout]

That could be but, I would argue this tendency is so pervasive and so long held as to render the religion as is believed -- a violent one that will accept nothing, from non-adherants, short of conversion, dhimmitude, or death.

There are a billion Muslims around the globe -- most of them in the Arab Middle East and Northern Africa -- and I would challenge you to find any Islamic religious leader, outside the Western World (and, to be sure, there aren't many there either -- and, even fewer willing to oppose this view publicly) that do not hold this view of Islam and preach it from their pulpits at every opportunity.

Most Muslims in the world are in Southeast Asia, not in the Middle East or in Northern Africa. Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim country. And their brand of Islam is much more progressive than what the Arabs practice, because their culture is not quite so backward, repressive, and tribal as that of the Arabs.

[Spurminator]

That's garbage, over 900,000 of the Muslims live in Northern Africa, Indonesia, and the Arab Middle East. I challenge you to find a moderate among them.

Non-Moderate <> Violent.

You've made the claim that Islam is pervasively violent, and your only evidence is a subset of the followers whose violent tendencies could be explained by a number of different variables.

You're contending that rectangles are square because you've seen a bunch of squares that are rectangles. I don't need to show you a non-square rectangle for your argument to be ludicrous.

[Drive Like Jehu]

Forget looking at the followers, and/or subjectifying the various Islamic texts (Qur'an, Hadith, or Sunnah) and look at Mohammed himself.

Mohammed intentionally practiced violence during his life.

[Yonivore]

Non-Moderate <> Violent.

You've made the claim that Islam is pervasively violent, and your only evidence is a subset of the followers whose violent tendencies could be explained by a number of different variables.

All but a couple of armed conflicts worldwide involve a combatant that is comprised 100% of Muslims.

You're contending that rectangles are square because you've seen a bunch of squares that are rectangles. I don't need to show you a non-square rectangle for your argument to be ludicrous.

I was actually saying the vast majority of rectangles (in this subset) are squares, and the others sure look like squares because the portion that would delineate the rectangle is hidden, leaving an object of four equal sides.

Okay, you can put your head back in the sand, I'm not going to bother you anymore.

[Yonivore]

Most Muslims in the world are in Southeast Asia, not in the Middle East or in Northern Africa. Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim country. And their brand of Islam is much more progressive than what the Arabs practice, because their culture is not quite so backward, repressive, and tribal as that of the Arabs.

You're right, I accidentally left them out of the statement.

And, I don't see any voices of Islamic moderation eminating from Indonesia either. In fact, we're fighting al Qaeda there too...it's just not as well publicized.

[Spurminator]

I was actually saying the vast majority of rectangles (in this subset) are squares, and the others sure look like squares because the portion that would delineate the rectangle is hidden, leaving an object of four equal sides.

Which still doesn't change the definitions of squares and rectangles.

Enjoy the bunker you've created for yourself.

[Spurminator]

Forget looking at the followers, and/or subjectifying the various Islamic texts (Qur'an, Hadith, or Sunnah) and look at Mohammed himself.

Mohammed intentionally practiced violence during his life.

Now we're getting somewhere.

[E20]

There are a billion Muslims around the globe -- most of them in the Arab Middle East and Northern Africa -- and I would challenge you to find any Islamic religious leader, outside the Western World

Ehhh I was watching Glenn Beck the other day and he had his rant on Muslims are trying to get us, but then he also did a segment where there are other Muslims in the world fighting the crazy ones and he showed a some religous leaders that were in the Middle East and did do this:

that do not hold this view of Islam and preach it from their pulpits at every opportunity.

[Yonivore]

Which still doesn't change the definitions of squares and rectangles.

Enjoy the bunker you've created for yourself.

But, you have to ask yourself, if so many rectangles are getting mistaken for squares, why aren't they revealing themselves to be rectangles?

Enjoy your dhimmitude.

[Spurminator]

Maybe because the squares will kill them and their family if they do. Maybe their comments are limited to discussions/speeches (or , online forums) and aren't printed in every Western publication. What ratio of vocal objectors to militants would meet your standards?

I can't stand Jerry Falwell but I doubt he knows it. Am I a hypocrite if I don't issue a press release denouncing him?

[Yonivore]

Maybe because the squares will kill them and their family if they do. Maybe their comments are limited to discussions/speeches (or , online forums) and aren't printed in every Western publication. What ratio of vocal objectors to militants would meet your standards?

Then I can't be blamed for viewing their religion in the only manner in which it is publicly manifested -- violence.

I can't stand Jerry Falwell but I doubt he knows it. Am I a hypocrite if I don't issue a press release denouncing him?

You're a coward -- and deserve to be viewed as complicit -- if he successfully incites violence in the name of your religion and you don't stand up and defend it.

[Spurminator]

Then I can't be blamed for viewing their religion in the only manner in which it is publicly manifested -- violence.

I suppose if you're content to be a lazy minded bigot that's your prerogative. Enjoy it.

You're a coward -- and deserve to be viewed as complicit -- if he successfully incites violence in the name of your religion and you don't stand up and defend it.

Good idea, I'll just type up a declaration of opposition and send it to my "Everyone on the Planet" mailing list.

[johnsmith]

Since a majority of prisoners located throughout the United States are of the Christian denomination, does that mean Christians are more inclined to commit crimes?

[Extra Stout]

You're right, I accidentally left them out of the statement.

And, I don't see any voices of Islamic moderation eminating from Indonesia either. In fact, we're fighting al Qaeda there too...it's just not as well publicized.

If you're not hearing voices of moderation out of a place like Indonesia, it's because you have your hands over your ears.

I tend to think you have your mind made up that Islam is violent and are not really interested in hearing otherwise.

[Blake]