Do the Mavs Have Any Weaknesses????

[RonMexico]

actually, the fans have absolutely nothing to do with the team. i find it funny how in every post, all you do is find a way to take a shot at mavericks fans. i just dont see what it accomplishes, other than the fact that it makes you look even more like a ing .

actually, you proved my point exactly. while ignoring the other stuff i wrote: aka "Josh Howard has an at ude that needs to be reined in, and Stack won't go for 16 in the 4th quarter to pull out a win every game," you proceed to attack my most accurate and joking post and then emulate it.

then, you try to act like you're a logical person by writing a few things without the words " ," " ," or "dirk's balls are so nice in my mouth" to try an fool any of us on the board.

lastly, the fans and their bleating homerism (not to mention their blind support of cuban's jumbotron hate against refs, other players, coaches etc at AAC) make this team believe they not only deserved the le last year, but also in 2002 and probably this year again. the fans at AAC are some of the worst in the league, and i have a newfound respect for spurs fans based on the 3 times i've seen suns games at SBC/AT&T. the fans in dallas aren't that great and they do contribute to a negative perception about this team across the league.

if ray lewis were ever epitomized in an nba team, it would be the mavericks: from jason terry's perception that "god makes this team win" to the fact that they get away with murder ("humble" gy PA announcer who yells "defense" at times when he's not allowed to, as stated by the league - and now the mavs get the benefits of the calls thanks to their boss's ing for 4+ years).

i'm also only going to type in all lowercase letters, with poor grammar, so you can understand what i'm trying to say a little bit better.

[mabber]

actually, the fans have absolutely nothing to do with the team. i find it funny how in every post, all you do is find a way to take a shot at mavericks fans. i just dont see what it accomplishes, other than the fact that it makes you look even more like a ing .

I've said as much once to RonMexico guy (w/o the cuss words) but it hasn't stuck yet. The guy understands hoops and is one of the few guys on here that I enjoy talking hoops with but he always feels the need to attack the entire Mav fan base as if a few posters on here represent that fan base Hopefully, eventually he'll figure out that it's best to ignore those few Mav fans and just keep this a basketball forum as it's intended. Since he is one of the few Sun's posters, he really can help to make this a much better hoop's forum by ignoring a lot of the crap that some Mav posters & Spur posters throw at him.

[The Great Fantastic]

the thing is, this team does not have an arrogant mindset. Avery will not allow it either. Flip let the Pistons get arrogant last year, and they have players who are naturally arrogant too. the Mavericks dont.

They might not be arrogant yet, but this is the middle of the season. There's a lot of time left and the media will hype up the mavs. They deserve the hype right now. They Mavs are playing great basketball. I still think they will feel en led when all is said and done. If any coach can keep this team from becoming arrogant, it is Avery Johnson. But that is a tremendous task.

If the Mavs don't encounter any struggles through the rest of the season, they will be in trouble. Adversity will hit hard in the playoffs. Will they be able to keep their cool? Or will the Mavs of old return?

[mabber]

I still perceive the mavs as being rather mentally weak, as displayed by JH's immaturity today. The have a number of other weaknesses such as:
Playing against Zone defense
Defending against a more dynamic passing offence
Trouble with more agile big men(Ala boozer or Amare)
Pick and roll Defense has been their kryptonite for the past 3 years
And as it has been addressed settling for jump shots later in the game generally 3rd to early 4th quarter

Luckily for them I am sure Avery Johnson is aware of all of these things and plans to address them by play off time. They are a great team but they are may have to face up to three teams in the playoffs ( Spurs, Heat , and Suns ) that have given them trouble in the past.

If being immature is deemed to be "mentally weak" then there are a lot of posters in here extremely "mentally weak".

I've heard this about the Mavs on here a few times and don't understand where it's coming from unless it's totally coming from blowing the finals last year to the Heat. "Mentally weak" teams lose games that they're not supposed to lose. The Mavs certainly don't do that very often. Obviously, they have to do it every once in awhile cuz they're favored in every game they play but from the most part they beat all the teams they're supposed to beat.

If they have all those weakness that you mention above (most of them being weak against what the Suns do best) then how do you explain the Mavs being 2-0 vs. the Suns and beating them in the playoffs last year? Luck? I'm not saying that they don't have these weaknesses just trying to understand your thought process.

[RonMexico]

I've said as much once to RonMexico guy (w/o the cuss words) but it hasn't stuck yet. The guy understands hoops and is one of the few guys on here that I enjoy talking hoops with but he always feels the need to attack the entire Mav fan base as if a few posters on here represent that fan base Hopefully, eventually he'll figure out that it's best to ignore those few Mav fans and just keep this a basketball forum as it's intended. Since he is one of the few Sun's posters, he really can help to make this a much better hoop's forum by ignoring a lot of the crap that some Mav posters & Spur posters throw at him.

Alright... you found my weakness: I'm "mentally weak" when it comes to ignoring dumbass Mavs posters. I'm also immature enough to rile them up with posts attacking their fandom. Does that make me a le contender? It's left to be seen

Also, it isn't just posters on here that chap my ass when it comes to Mavs fans, it's also the 2 years of going to bars in College Station as the only Suns fan to watch a WCSF ('05) and WCF ('06) and listening to the biggest s south of the Mason-Dixon line get drunk and spew garbage.

Also, one of my roommates was a Spurs fan, another was a Rockets fan, and the third was a (bandwagon) Mavs fan. You can guess which one the rest of us ganged up on (and subsequently flooded his cell phone with texts of "choke job" last June).

Doesn't excuse me from attacking them on here, but I wanted to let you know that it's more than just posters like Dirk Nowitzki and his "Mavs are sooooo grrrrreat !!!"

[dallaskd]

Their fans

we got the crukest fans in the nba, who cares if were stupid.

[stretch]

I've said as much once to RonMexico guy (w/o the cuss words) but it hasn't stuck yet. The guy understands hoops and is one of the few guys on here that I enjoy talking hoops with but he always feels the need to attack the entire Mav fan base as if a few posters on here represent that fan base Hopefully, eventually he'll figure out that it's best to ignore those few Mav fans and just keep this a basketball forum as it's intended. Since he is one of the few Sun's posters, he really can help to make this a much better hoop's forum by ignoring a lot of the crap that some Mav posters & Spur posters throw at him.

yea, he seems to understand hoops, until he claims that a team with poor defense and rebounding can win a championship. i have nothing more to say about that.

[stretch]

Jerry Stackhouse and Josh Howard seem to have very arrogant personalities. This could especially become a problem for Josh if he falls for all the hype he is getting now adays. It will be interesting to see how he reacts to it and evolves as a player.

having a hot head, or being confident, is FAR different from being arrogant. these guys dont go around guaranteeing victories or anything. its one thing to have a bit of a temper at times, but that doesnt mean they are arrogant. since they have been in Dallas, they have not once said anything arrogant (in terms of basketball) in the media.

[RonMexico]

having a hot head, or being confident, is FAR different from being arrogant. these guys dont go around guaranteeing victories or anything. its one thing to have a bit of a temper at times, but that doesnt mean they are arrogant. since they have been in Dallas, they have not once said anything arrogant (in terms of basketball) in the media.

Except the time Josh Howard used his matchups against D-Wade from college to explain why the two of them "would cancel each other out." As I recall, Josh, one of you won the Finals MVP and the other choked it all away. I guess you can Josh Howard's comments were like someone saying a team that doesn't play defense or rebound will when a le. Like the Colts.

[N4th4n]

If being immature is deemed to be "mentally weak" then there are a lot of posters in here extremely "mentally weak".

I've heard this about the Mavs on here a few times and don't understand where it's coming from unless it's totally coming from blowing the finals last year to the Heat. "Mentally weak" teams lose games that they're not supposed to lose. The Mavs certainly don't do that very often. Obviously, they have to do it every once in awhile cuz they're favored in every game they play but from the most part they beat all the teams they're supposed to beat.

If they have all those weakness that you mention above (most of them being weak against what the Suns do best) then how do you explain the Mavs being 2-0 vs. the Suns and beating them in the playoffs last year? Luck? I'm not saying that they don't have these weaknesses just trying to understand your thought process.

In my mind I view them as mentally weak for a number of reasons:
1. The play offs against the suns two years ago. The main culprits in this series were Dirk and Terry. Dirk was owned by Shawn Marion and took out his aggressions in the press against his team. Terry was just totally defeated after Nash’s 3 in game 5 (6?) and never bounced back from that. Both of these I took as signs of weakness, now let me be the first to say that was a long time ago and things may have changed but that was my take on them
2. The Heat series last year, no explanation is need I think?
3. General action of JH, from his incident with Bruce Bowen this year, to his immaturity the other night to his timeout fiasco. It seems he lets things get under his skin to easily
4. Dampier is scared of Amare

Now most of these weaknesses I have assessed are strengths of the suns, this is most likely because I only get to watch them on nationally televised games and against the Suns. Here are a few explanations.

Playing against zone defenses: The Mavs offence is heavily based on Iso situations, this does not work against the zone. They are great shooters which can bust a zone up fast but if they are bricking shots they aren’t going to go very far. The lack a dynamic passing big man to bust a zone. Josh Howard is their best weapon in this regard.

Defending against a dynamic passing offence: Out side of Diop and Dampier no one on the team is a above average help defender. Harris and Howard may be able to shut down their man one on one, but this is most effective against and Iso type offense.

Trouble with agile big men: What needs to be said? Amare devoured dampier last time he played him at 100% and Diop is not nearly mobile enough to give Amare much trouble

Pick and Roll defense: I think even Avery has admitted this one. It is a deep topic and I don’t realy want to get into right now.

[mavsfan1000]

Except the time Josh Howard used his matchups against D-Wade from college to explain why the two of them "would cancel each other out." As I recall, Josh, one of you won the Finals MVP and the other choked it all away. I guess you can Josh Howard's comments were like someone saying a team that doesn't play defense or rebound will when a le. Like the Colts.

You can shut the up about last years finals. It is basically every post you have about the mavs.

[ponky]

If the Mavs don't encounter any struggles through the rest of the season, they will be in trouble. Adversity will hit hard in the playoffs. Will they be able to keep their cool? Or will the Mavs of old return?

lots of our wins have been struggles, and i like it that way precisely because it brings adversity and doesn't allow the mavs to coast. there is no reason to believe that the mavs of old return. this is not a guarantee that the mavs will win everything in the playoffs but neither will seven other teams, it' doesn't mean that they've somehow reverted to some former stasis

[RonMexico]

You can shut the up about last years finals. It is basically every post you have about the mavs.

Just as every post you have about the Suns is "0-3" or "duhhh, Dirk had 50 last year" or "Tim Thomas blowing kisses = pussy" or "no defense."

[mabber]

In my mind I view them as mentally weak for a number of reasons:
1. The play offs against the suns two years ago. The main culprits in this series were Dirk and Terry. Dirk was owned by Shawn Marion and took out his aggressions in the press against his team. Terry was just totally defeated after Nash’s 3 in game 5 (6?) and never bounced back from that. Both of these I took as signs of weakness, now let me be the first to say that was a long time ago and things may have changed but that was my take on them
2. The Heat series last year, no explanation is need I think?
3. General action of JH, from his incident with Bruce Bowen this year, to his immaturity the other night to his timeout fiasco. It seems he lets things get under his skin to easily
4. Dampier is scared of Amare

Now most of these weaknesses I have assessed are strengths of the suns, this is most likely because I only get to watch them on nationally televised games and against the Suns. Here are a few explanations.

Playing against zone defenses: The Mavs offence is heavily based on Iso situations, this does not work against the zone. They are great shooters which can bust a zone up fast but if they are bricking shots they aren’t going to go very far. The lack a dynamic passing big man to bust a zone. Josh Howard is their best weapon in this regard.

Defending against a dynamic passing offence: Out side of Diop and Dampier no one on the team is a above average help defender. Harris and Howard may be able to shut down their man one on one, but this is most effective against and Iso type offense.

Trouble with agile big men: What needs to be said? Amare devoured dampier last time he played him at 100% and Diop is not nearly mobile enough to give Amare much trouble

Pick and Roll defense: I think even Avery has admitted this one. It is a deep topic and I don’t realy want to get into right now.

1. 2 years ago is a long time and the Mavs have moved on and learned.

2. I can't defend that loss to the Heat as I agree there was a mental meltdown of some degree. Although this team (under Avery) has learned from everyone of it's mistakes.

3. Josh Howard's actions certainly don't effect his play so while he may still have some maturity issues I don't consider it a weakness that will effect anything.

4. Damp isn't scared of anyone He's a beast. He just can't cover Amare

I suppose they're not as good at playing against zone defenses cuz the don't see them very often. It's not like they don't have great outside shooters to beat it. It's really not an issue as they can score against anyone.

They brought in Buckner & George to help their D and thus far they've been great. I can't think of another team that's better than the Mavs on D when the game is on the line at this point so this is kind of a silly subject.

Of course they're going to have trouble with Amare.

Of course they're going to have trouble with the pic 'n roll between Nash & Amare.

That's like me saying the Sun's will have trouble with Dirk or Howard or Stack or Terry

I guess in the end you make some points about what the Mav's will have trouble with vs. the Suns (still not sure about your "mental weakness" arguments).

I guess the Mavs will just have to be happy with beating the Suns in close games & series like they've been doing lately. It's not like I expect them to blow the Suns out or sweep them in a series. The Suns are damn good.

[mabber]

yea, he seems to understand hoops, until he claims that a team with poor defense and rebounding can win a championship. i have nothing more to say about that.

To be fair, he's said over & over that the Suns are playing defense this season. So he's not saying that a team with poor defense & rebounding can win a championship from what I've read.

[RonMexico]

To be fair, he's said over & over that the Suns are playing defense this season. So he's not saying that a team with poor defense & rebounding can win a championship from what I've read.

And there are people who are paid to analyze the NBA saying it as well.... excerpt from John Hollinger's chat on ESPN.com:

"John, for some reason the national media has decided to consider Dallas a "great" defensive team, but consider the Suns a "poor" defensive team. You have a cult following of tens of millions, and they're all here in this chat room right now. Put this myth to rest for all of them please!!!"

John Hollinger: Gladly. Both clubs are primarly offensive teams, ranking 1st and 3rd in offensive eficiency after being the top two a year ago. But they're also neck-and-neck on D -- Dallas is 6th, Phoenix 7th, and the difference wasn't much greater a year ago. The reason people think the Suns don't play D is because they aren't using pace-adjusted numbers, and since the run-and-gun Suns produce much higher scores than the mostly halfcourt Mavs (some people erroneously think of the Mavs as a running team but they're 28th in Pace Factor), it appears to those who aren't paying attention closely that the Mavs' D is much better.

Now, I know a few of you will discredit Hollinger's stats as "B.S." or something of that sort. However, he's one of the few to call the Mavs a half-court team, which is what you Mavs fans have been saying they are this whole year - and I agree. I've read more than a few posts on here that say "we used to play that style before we realized how beautiful it can be to walk the ball up the court." So, could the fact that Hollinger calls the Suns an efficient defensive team also mean that we Suns fans know a little more about our team than the casual observer does?

[Sportcamper]

Do the Mavericks Have Any Weaknesses?
I can think of two...

[mabber]

And there are people who are paid to analyze the NBA saying it as well.... excerpt from John Hollinger's chat on ESPN.com:

"John, for some reason the national media has decided to consider Dallas a "great" defensive team, but consider the Suns a "poor" defensive team. You have a cult following of tens of millions, and they're all here in this chat room right now. Put this myth to rest for all of them please!!!"

John Hollinger: Gladly. Both clubs are primarly offensive teams, ranking 1st and 3rd in offensive eficiency after being the top two a year ago. But they're also neck-and-neck on D -- Dallas is 6th, Phoenix 7th, and the difference wasn't much greater a year ago. The reason people think the Suns don't play D is because they aren't using pace-adjusted numbers, and since the run-and-gun Suns produce much higher scores than the mostly halfcourt Mavs (some people erroneously think of the Mavs as a running team but they're 28th in Pace Factor), it appears to those who aren't paying attention closely that the Mavs' D is much better.

Now, I know a few of you will discredit Hollinger's stats as "B.S." or something of that sort. However, he's one of the few to call the Mavs a half-court team, which is what you Mavs fans have been saying they are this whole year - and I agree. I've read more than a few posts on here that say "we used to play that style before we realized how beautiful it can be to walk the ball up the court." So, could the fact that Hollinger calls the Suns an efficient defensive team also mean that we Suns fans know a little more about our team than the casual observer does?

He didn't say anything that I didn't know. My argument has always been... that the Sun's style of play helps them win a lot of regular season games w/o having to make key defensive stops late in games (cus they've got most games in hand) so there's nothing to draw on from come playoff time. It's really the ONLY reason I believe the Mavs will beat them in the playoffs. I have much more confidence in the Mavs D in late game situations than I do in the Suns. The Mavs style of play (slower) has had them in many more tight games in the regular season and they've almost always made key stops in the 4th quarter to win those games. Odds are, all the Suns/Mavs games are going to come down to the last 5-6 minutes. I've also talked about game 6 last year, where the Suns decided to put forth GREAT effort on defense right from the beginnning...and they played a GREAT defensive first half (it's not like they're not capable) but they weren't used to doing it for long stretches and were spent in the 2nd half from what I could tell. They were really tired which really was the only reason they allowed the Mavs to come back from such a large deficit to beat them. I think this is the one negative from playing that "outscore your opponent with great offense" style of play. Like I said, I'm not arguing that they've improved in their overall defense. As a Mav fan, I've seen this up close. The Mavs used to think they could just turn up the defensive intensity in the playoffs and it never worked.

[mabber]

Do the Mavericks Have Any Weaknesses?
I can think of two...

Wade is definitely a BIG problem for them. Shaq...not so much anymore.

[Shank]

When in doubt, head right for the stats.

[Trainwreck2100]

"15 strong"

[RonMexico]

He didn't say anything that I didn't know. My argument has always been... that the Sun's style of play helps them win a lot of regular season games w/o having to make key defensive stops late in games (cus they've got most games in hand) so there's nothing to draw on from come playoff time. It's really the ONLY reason I believe the Mavs will beat them in the playoffs. I have much more confidence in the Mavs D in late game situations than I do in the Suns. The Mavs style of play (slower) has had them in many more tight games in the regular season and they've almost always made key stops in the 4th quarter to win those games. Odds are, all the Suns/Mavs games are going to come down to the last 5-6 minutes. I've also talked about game 6 last year, where the Suns decided to put forth GREAT effort on defense right from the beginnning...and they played a GREAT defensive first half (it's not like they're not capable) but they weren't used to doing it for long stretches and were spent in the 2nd half from what I could tell. They were really tired which really was the only reason they allowed the Mavs to come back from such a large deficit to beat them. I think this is the one negative from playing that "outscore your opponent with great offense" style of play. Like I said, I'm not arguing that they've improved in their overall defense. As a Mav fan, I've seen this up close. The Mavs used to think they could just turn up the defensive intensity in the playoffs and it never worked.

My comments were more directed towards stretch than you - I think we've developed mutual respect for our basketball knowledge and, likewise, our staunch support of our respective franchises.

[stretch]

To be fair, he's said over & over that the Suns are playing defense this season. So he's not saying that a team with poor defense & rebounding can win a championship from what I've read.

ok. he can say all he wants that they play defense. , i can say that Nowitzki is the greatest player in NBA history, but it doesnt mean a damn thing, nor is it even the slightest bit true.

anyways, if you really watch the Suns... especially against GOOD teams, or teams with very good offenses... they do NOT play good defense. their only defense comes from their offense. but once they start missing shots, teams that know how to exploit those weaknesses, like Dallas and San Antonio, will score at will, because Phoenix can't stop anyone, or win games with defense.

[Sportcamper]

mabber- When Shaquille is healthy & he starts swatting power forwards like little bugs...He is a problem for any team...He certainly showed that against Dirk last year....

[stretch]

And there are people who are paid to analyze the NBA saying it as well.... excerpt from John Hollinger's chat on ESPN.com:

"John, for some reason the national media has decided to consider Dallas a "great" defensive team, but consider the Suns a "poor" defensive team. You have a cult following of tens of millions, and they're all here in this chat room right now. Put this myth to rest for all of them please!!!"

John Hollinger: Gladly. Both clubs are primarly offensive teams, ranking 1st and 3rd in offensive eficiency after being the top two a year ago. But they're also neck-and-neck on D -- Dallas is 6th, Phoenix 7th, and the difference wasn't much greater a year ago. The reason people think the Suns don't play D is because they aren't using pace-adjusted numbers, and since the run-and-gun Suns produce much higher scores than the mostly halfcourt Mavs (some people erroneously think of the Mavs as a running team but they're 28th in Pace Factor), it appears to those who aren't paying attention closely that the Mavs' D is much better.

Now, I know a few of you will discredit Hollinger's stats as "B.S." or something of that sort. However, he's one of the few to call the Mavs a half-court team, which is what you Mavs fans have been saying they are this whole year - and I agree. I've read more than a few posts on here that say "we used to play that style before we realized how beautiful it can be to walk the ball up the court." So, could the fact that Hollinger calls the Suns an efficient defensive team also mean that we Suns fans know a little more about our team than the casual observer does?

in 2002-2003, the Mavs were top 10 in both scoring defense and FG%. they held teams to about 95 ppg, and about 42.9% shooting, and had the highest scoring differential in the NBA, as well as the best offense. but the fact is, despite the improved defensive statisics, they were not able to win game with defense. yea, they learned how to play better defense, to up opposing teams even more with that up-tempo offense they played, but when they played good teams like the Lakers or Spurs, they found a way to exploit their "seemingly good defense", with good transition defense and rebounding, which would end up throwing the Mavs off their game, and they would lose. that is exactly how the Suns lose. they can beat all the ty teams they want. but it dont mean a thing if they cant beat good teams, or win with defense and rebounding. do you honestly think they can win a playoff series in which each game ends with a defensive struggle? because thats what the playoffs turn into, especially against the best teams. if you cant win with defense, you cant win, period. and so far this year, they have proved just about everything, except that they can win close games with defense and rebounding.