Would you trade Tony AND Manu?

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

A smart loser.

Ask Horry... He'd give up all his championships to have Karl Malones career

[AFBlue]

Trading TWO All-star calibre guards for one frontline player means that guy has to be a Championship maker all on his own for years because it would take a long time to replace two top guards.

Well said...

Current combined production is roughly 35ppg, 8rpg, 8apg, and 3spg.

Most comparable to those stats is Dwayne Wade @ 28.8ppg, 5rpg, 7.9apg, and 2.15spg.

So even if Dwayne Wade was offered up (not a chance in ) it wouldn't be statistically prudent to do that deal. And the question your asking is if I'd give up those two for a CHANCE at a guy like Oden or Durant, who MIGHT be as dominant...the answer for me is easily NO.

BTW, of the two I'd take Durant. He could lead the league in scoring, be top 5 in rebounding, and top 10 in blocks & steals. He's rediculously good.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Well said...

Current combined production is roughly 35ppg, 8rpg, 8apg, and 3spg.

Most comparable to those stats is Dwayne Wade @ 28.8ppg, 5rpg, 7.9apg, and 2.15spg.

So even if Dwayne Wade was offered up (not a chance in ) it wouldn't be statistically prudent to do that deal. And the question your asking is if I'd give up those two for a CHANCE at a guy like Oden or Durant, who MIGHT be as dominant...the answer for me is easily NO.

BTW, of the two I'd take Durant. He could lead the league in scoring, be top 5 in rebounding, and top 10 in blocks & steals. He's rediculously good.

Actually, if you are going by that theory, Add in Brent Barry's 10/3/3 (in limited minutes) and it averages out to 39/8/11 and would be statistically prudent to make the trade

[BeerIsGood!]

If he went to college 4 years, he would have been guaranteed a le or come close?

He's a wasted talent because he hasn't won a le?

I don't follow the logic.

And I don't think he is greedy. He gives an incredible amount of money to charity.

Guaranteed a le after 4 years of college - no. Had a better chance of a le if his outrageous contract didn't handicap his team? Yes.

Not only has he not won a le, but his teams are an embarrasment. Only a few decent seasons peaking with a WCF appearance. Other than that his talent has been wasted on horrible teams. I'm not saying that it's his fault, but the size of the contract does negatively impact the team's cap - so it's loosely like trading money for success.

I personally like the guy he's become as he matured during his career. Very outspoken, but seems like a genuinely nice and caring person. Greediness was a bad choice of words on my part.

Call me crazy, but I would take $85 million dollars and three championships over $165 million and nothing to show for it. ANYTHING is bad in excess, and money is no different. $85 million is excess enough for me - even at that figure I'd have to be creative in how I dispersed the money to keep from being corrupted by it.

[Kori Ellis]

Guaranteed a le after 4 years of college - no. Had a better chance of a le if his outrageous contract didn't handicap his team? Yes.

Not only has he not won a le, but his teams are an embarrasment. Only a few decent seasons peaking with a WCF appearance. Other than that his talent has been wasted on horrible teams. I'm not saying that it's his fault, but the size of the contract does negatively impact the team's cap - so it's loosely like trading money for success.

I personally like the guy he's become as he matured during his career. Very outspoken, but seems like a genuinely nice and caring person. Greediness was a bad choice of words on my part.

Call me crazy, but I would take $85 million dollars and three championships over $165 million and nothing to show for it. ANYTHING is bad in excess, and money is no different. $85 million is excess enough for me - even at that figure I'd have to be creative in how I dispersed the money to keep from being corrupted by it.

Well it's not like he went to the NBA because he was greedy and knew that the salary structure was going to change soon and be lower, right? It's not like he could have said, "Hmm.. maybe if I wait a couple years and don't go to the NBA now, then the salary rules will change and give my team some more flexibility". That's why I didn't get you calling him greedy. So I'm glad you re-phrased it.

Not only has he not won a le, but his teams are an embarrasment. Only a few decent seasons peaking with a WCF appearance. Other than that his talent has been wasted on horrible teams

They went to the playoffs eight/nine straight years, right?
So you can't really call his teams an embarrassment. Embarrassments are bottom of the barrel teams, not playoff teams.

[AFBlue]

Actually, if you are going by that theory, Add in Brent Barry's 10/3/3 (in limited minutes) and it averages out to 39/8/11 and would be statistically prudent to make the trade

You're adding a value that already exists in the pre-existing team, so it cancels out. If you're assuming that he doubles his production with increased minutes, then you can add those #'s, but if not...it all comes out in the wash.

I was saying from a purely statistical standpoint, it's not feasible to do. There are several other peripheral reasons why it's not feasible.

[AFBlue]

They went to the playoffs eight/nine straight years, right?
So you can't really call his teams an embarrassment. Embarrassments are bottom of the barrel teams, not playoff teams.

Any team with a talent like Kevin Garnett that is not a perennial contender is an embarrassment.

Having said that, the onus is on the T-Wolves front office for not making the right personnel decisions to surround Garnett with the right players. Letting Cassell/Sprewell go, giving huge contracts to defensive specialists and backup PGs, and failing to draft anyone of note (though 2006 seems successful) have made this team what it is--a fringe lottery team with little opportunity to improve, but with less opportunity to tank the season. It's just a sad situation all-around.

[BeerIsGood!]

They went to the playoffs eight/nine straight years, right?
So you can't really call his teams an embarrassment. Embarrassments are bottom of the barrel teams, not playoff teams.

It's not like we're talking baseball here where only the elite teams make the playoffs. In a league where 1/2 of the teams make the playoffs - making the playoffs isn't that great of an accomplishment. If a team has a superstar and either barely makes the playoffs or now doesn't make them at all - that's an embarrasment.

[BeerIsGood!]

Well it's not like he went to the NBA because he was greedy and knew that the salary structure was going to change soon and be lower, right? It's not like he could have said, "Hmm.. maybe if I wait a couple years and don't go to the NBA now, then the salary rules will change and give my team some more flexibility". That's why I didn't get you calling him greedy. So I'm glad you re-phrased it.

Regarding the salary, he could have been working with the FO on a plan if he were to restructure his salary. Many people in other sports have done so (Troy Aikman) in their quest for success, but it obviously wasn't that important to him.


(I am not aware of anything in the CBA back in the late 90's that would have prevented him from doing so, but if there was disregard this statement).

[AFBlue]

Regarding the salary, he could have been working with the FO on a plan if he were to restructure his salary. Many people in other sports have done so (Troy Aikman) in their quest for success, but it obviously wasn't that important to him.


(I am not aware of anything in the CBA back in the late 90's that would have prevented him from doing so, but if there was disregard this statement).

I think the only thing he can do is exercise an opt-out if he has a player option in the last year or two of his deal and work an entirely new contract. Of course, there are risks with opt-outs like the player joining another team (see: Carlos Boozer and Cavs). Why opt out to take less money and put trust in the T-Wolves when he couldjust as easily join a legit championship contender (Spurs?) for the mid-level exception (a la Karl Malone)?


Bottom Line: While his cost against the cap would be tough to overcome when searching for sidekicks, it's not impossible. It's on the Minnesota front office to make the personnel moves. They offered him $126M, what was he supposed to do...turn it down?

[Oh, Gee!!]

for D-Wade

[BLACKMAMBA24]

D-Whistle