OBAMA " HERO TO Clambake and others

[clambake]

So they don't have a problem with American imperialism being shoved down their throats? Their biggest problem is liberals taunting their women with sexy clothes? Tree huggers or tree huggers and trees? Doesn't surprise anyone that we created Saddam and Bin ladin. Taught them all too well.

[whottt]

So they don't have a problem with American imperialism being shoved down their throats?

American Imperialism?

Check the emmigration rates and investment charts sometime chief, see where most of their money comes from...those mother ers can't get enough Western Imperialism.

No...they have a problem with us turning them into a bunch of sissified s ruled by their women. Seriously.


That is the cultural clash...you naive .

Their biggest problem is liberals taunting their women with sexy clothes?

yes...are you kidding me?

Tree huggers or tree huggers and trees? Doesn't surprise anyone that we created Saddam and Bin ladin. Taught them all too well.

Saddam was a socialist...blame us for Bin Ladin if you want, just know the post Israel Islamic movement was originally bankrolled by the Soviets and Bin Ladin was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.

But basically...yeah, their leaders are just like our Republicans in xenophobia and general hardassedness towards foreigners and liberalism, but unlike us, their liberals have no rights, they don't have liberals getting in their ing way...we got nukes, they got no liberals...they must have got first pick.

We'll give up our nukes when they take the liberal bullet in the ass like we have.

[clambake]

But you sound ready to launch that nuke card. You think there would be any, oh I don't know, ramifications for that?

[whottt]

Um...if we get nuked I am going to be all for pulling the nuke card.

Worked in the cold war. It'll work now...unless the leaders of those countries up and start to believe their own sabre rattling...in which case our problem is going to be their problem. Well that's what I want..

It's called mutually assured destruction and it's the best nuclear deterrent there is. But their leaders, their politicians, their sane ones, have to know they are threatened, and to the average foot soldier death means nothing so other things must be threatened. And none of this works if they think we have a leader that can be pushed...

[clambake]

Ok Whott. We get nuked today. By who? Who do we nuke in return? Do we pull another Iraq that had nothing to do with 9-11? Do we just throw darts at a map?

[01Snake]

Whott in 08'

[ThomasGranger]

Um...if we get nuked I am going to be all for pulling the nuke card.

Worked in the cold war. It'll work now...unless the leaders of those countries up and start to believe their own sabre rattling...in which case our problem is going to be their problem. Well that's what I want..

It's called mutually assured destruction and it's the best nuclear deterrent there is. But their leaders, their politicians, their sane ones, have to know they are threatened, and to the average foot soldier death means nothing so other things must be threatened. And none of this works if they think we have a leader that can be pushed...

If we get nuked by a govt. of course we're going to send nukes back. That's a no-brainer, and I don't think anybody would dispute it. But your "President with his finger on the button" theory doesn't really work when it comes to containment. Just look at North Korea, not to mention Iran.

[clambake]

Whott's not talking about an ICBM. He's talking about a suitcase. Who could argue retaliation if missles were in the air?

[whottt]

Ok Whott. We get nuked today. By who? Who do we nuke in return? Do we pull another Iraq that had nothing to do with 9-11?

Look, this might be a surprise to you but this Islamic movement we face is nothing more than a Muslim social program grown out of control.

It is backed by the governments of Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria...possibly the Chinese and maybe still the Russians. Pakistan formerly supported it and still might...but I personally think Musharraf is just trying to fix his country.

But the fact that they have nukes makes things extremely complicated.

You have to threaten the Saudi Royal Family...albeit with tact.

You have to threaten the hypocritical leadership of Iran, the ones who don't really want to die...

And you have to threaten what means something to a man willing to kill himself for his religious convictions.

Ideally, if you threaten the power brokers they can take care of the foot soldiers themselves.

But that dude in Iran...he's more than just a Sabre Rattler...he's Jim Jones. He needs to be taken out immediately.



As for Iraq...
Saddam needed to go and there are now two countries we have access too that we didn't before. Two ty leaders...gone.

Contrary to whateveryone says here...Iran is not happy with our military surrounding them, the Saudis are not happy about Iran becoming the major regional power.


And whether you want to believe it or not...W scared the living out of every person in authority in the ME. Because I don't think anyone doubts he'd be willing nuke someones ass...it works. It's how the ME leaders stay in power.

[ThomasGranger]

Whott's not talking about an ICBM. He's talking about a suitcase. Who could argue retaliation if missles were in the air?

Got it. (I realized that was probably the case and was editing my post the same time you posted the clarification).

[clambake]

YOu just called it a muslim social program with all those countries lumped together, then at the end you seperated the players. What gives?

[whottt]

YOu just called it a muslim social program with all those countries lumped together, then at the end you seperated the players. What gives?

It literally is a muslim social program grown out of control...well almost out of control. The Rad Islam movement is what I am talking about.


I don't think all muslims are bad...of course not, just the ones in power in Iran, Saudi and Pakistan(not Musharraf but Pak's Mullah's)...the rest are in jail, hiding or over here already.

I separated the players because different things threaten them.

[clambake]

Not that it wouldn't happen eventually, but our WH's ill-conceived plans have acelerated this Muslim reunion based on a common goal. The fools rushed in.

[ponky]

But here are the facts...

He's black, that's a negative.

It would help if you let as many people, particularly black people, in on this fact. The only reason Obama's reception has been lukewarm by blacks is because whites have been so quick to embrace him and blacks are su ious, they see Obama as possibly *whitified*


Anyway the article does nothing for me and the stuff you highlighted is irrelevant to the main theme of the article.

[Extra Stout]

It would help if you let as many people, particularly black people, in on this fact. The only reason Obama's reception has been lukewarm by blacks is because whites have been so quick to embrace him and blacks are su ious, they see Obama as possibly *whitified*

So let me get this straight... black people will only enthusiastically support a black candidate if he does not have widespread support among white people? How is that supposed to work?

[whottt]

It would help if you let as many people, particularly black people, in on this fact. The only reason Obama's reception has been lukewarm by blacks is because whites have been so quick to embrace him and blacks are su ious,

Sounds like those blacks are too caught up in skin color. Which blacks are these by the way? Or are you just speaking for, all of them?

they see Obama as possibly *whitified*

Wow...so basically they're racist.

And because white people like him, they don't trust him?

As opposed to the other 40 something Presidents of the USA?


Let me guess...

You're a liberal aren't you ponky?


Congrats on being elected the voice of the African American btw. I'm impressed with your hipness and how in touch you are with the voice of the minority.




Me personally I remember post 911 they polled African Americans on if racial profiling should be used to prevent terrorist attacks and it was like an 80% yes vote. Maybe the name has something to do with it?

[gtownspur]

It would help if you let as many people, particularly black people, in on this fact. The only reason Obama's reception has been lukewarm by blacks is because whites have been so quick to embrace him and blacks are su ious, they see Obama as possibly *whitified*


Anyway the article does nothing for me and the stuff you highlighted is irrelevant to the main theme of the article.

Translation: Blacks should support real black warriors like Bill Clinton who played the sax on Arsenio Hall. Word to you Motha!

Whoop whoop!! whoop! whoop!

Yeah boyeeeee!!!

[Extra Stout]

If a black candidate isn't like Chris Rock in "Head of State," he just ain't keepin' it real.

[ponky]

So let me get this straight... black people will only enthusiastically support a black candidate if he does not have widespread support among white people? How is that supposed to work?

no, of course not, it's a combination of things right now with regards to obama and the reception he's getting from blacks. some of the more recent polls have suggested that blacks identify more with hillary by way of her husband because they identify with bill clinton's background a lot easier than they do with obama's international background. also, it's not a surprise that many blacks and latinos balk and sometimes INITIALLY mistrust one of their own who is very educated and outspoken, that's all i meant by whitifed. i don't mean to personalize this because there are lots of studies regarding this issue, but as an example, i got teased all the time by my neighborhood kids (latinos) for taking the aim high classes with all the white kids. anyway, i never put it in such extreme terms like *only* as you have, i think you misunderstood. there are several black candidates in politics who have had the support of both blacks and whites.

[Extra Stout]

no, of course not, it's a combination of things right now with regards to obama and the reception he's getting from blacks. some of the more recent polls have suggested that blacks identify more with hillary by way of her husband because they identify with bill clinton's background a lot easier than they do with obama's international background. also, it's not a surprise that many blacks and latinos balk and sometimes INITIALLY mistrust one of their own who is very educated and outspoken, that's all i meant by whitifed. i don't mean to personalize this because there are lots of studies regarding this issue, but as an example, i got teased all the time by my neighborhood kids (latinos) for taking the aim high classes with all the white kids. anyway, i never put it in such extreme terms like *only* as you have, i think you misunderstood. there are several black candidates in politics who have had the support of both blacks and whites.

OK, I get the international thing -- Obama has a very different background from most African-Americans.

I take the view of high achievement by minorities among themselves as "acting white" as a manifestation of cultural self-loathing -- an internalization of the racism they experience.

[ponky]

I'm impressed with your hipness and how in touch you are with the voice of the minority.

considering i am a minority who's gone through all the *you're too good for us because you want an education and yet you're from the hood* b.s., thanks.

anyway, you should calm down and not be so reactionary and assume so much about liberals...just like that idiot g-townspur who assumed that when i was talking about racism i was only talking about white on *insert the minority* racism. yes, i'm liberal but i'm not going to deny that minorities aren't guilty of racism as if they live in the world of lucky charms, seeing all the colors of the rainbows as equal...because they don't. when it comes to racism, minorities don't get a free pass on ignorance just because they've been persecuted in the past. besides, my initial post was based on several recent political polls about the presidential race and minority voting patterns, so it's not really my voice.

[ponky]

OK, I get the international thing -- Obama has a very different background from most African-Americans.

I take the view of high achievement by minorities among themselves as "acting white" as a manifestation of cultural self-loathing -- an internalization of the racism they experience.

yeah i agree. it's the same reason mexican-american kids (2-3 generation born here) balk at speaking spanish or even learning it as a second language. i wasn't trying to turn this into a liberal/conservative argument, just merely commenting on why obama hasn't been warmly received by blacks...although, that gap is closing and it's still early.

[whottt]

considering i am a minority

You are? Not in Texas you aren't.

who's gone through all the *you're too good for us because you want an education and yet you're from the hood* b.s., thanks.

anyway, you should calm down and not be so reactionary and assume so much about liberals...just like that idiot g-townspur who assumed that when i was talking about racism i was only talking about white on *insert the minority* racism. yes, i'm liberal but i'm not going to deny that minorities aren't guilty of racism as if they live in the world of lucky charms, seeing all the colors of the rainbows as equal...because they don't. when it comes to racism, minorities don't get a free pass on ignorance just because they've been persecuted in the past. besides, my initial post was based on several recent political polls about the presidential race and minority voting patterns, so it's not really my voice.

Pretty well said...

Don't sweat my comments...


But don't pretend like you don't enjoy talking and don't do it, and just come here for intelligent discourse.

You were the #1 talking Mav fan during the playoffs last year. I remember when you got here...

[whottt]

yeah i agree. it's the same reason mexican-american kids (2-3 generation born here) balk at speaking spanish or even learning it as a second language. i wasn't trying to turn this into a liberal/conservative argument, just merely commenting on why obama hasn't been warmly received by blacks...although, that gap is closing and it's still early.

You notice I listed black as both a positive and a negative...it's a positive with the media...not necessarily with the public, black or white.

But in terms of historical perspective...it's definitely a negative, and Americans don't exactly have a track record of making radical changes during tumultous times.

First black president is going to be one with a muslim surname, with a muslim background, during a war with radical islam?

It's not going to happen.

And if Obama is as smart as he is alleged to be...he knows now is not his time, all this is about is throwing his hat in the ring so he won't be the unknown next time.

He's not going to win in 08...not in this uncertain climate.

[JoeChalupa]

It doesn't change my mind. I'm still backing Obama.