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Yeah, and I'm not saying Dampier isn't playing better right now than he ever has as a Maverick. But to make that statement really isn't say a whole of a lot.
Gimme Diop in there any day over Damp.
Yeah. He made one mistake all series. That's what I'm basing it on. If i'm being unneccesarily harsh, you're being unneccesarily lenient.
And that's all i need to read. momentarily. what did he do in the other 47 minutes of the game?
In an era where money is such a huge factor of the game, it must be taken into consideration.
Dampier AVERAGED a double-double the year before he signed with the Mavs. If he was doing the same thing here, I wouldn't complain. And really, am I asking too much. At this point, he only needs to average about two more points and two more rebounds for me to be satisfied with him. He can't push himself hard enough to get two more points or two more rebounds? And the whole "Diop is here too" argument doesn't work....because if Dampier was playing here the way he played his last year in Golden State, then Diop would be Mbenga part 2. But Dampier's lack of any drive whatsoever is the reason we now see how good Diop is.
Not even close. If the other players were contributing to this team as little as Dampier, they'd be getting the same criticism. Dirk, Terry, Howard, etc. are contributing significantly for this team, regardless of their contract status or who's backing them up or what they're asked to do....so I can live with the occasional mistake from them.
And watching games all year, I still don't see a guy giving 100%. When I see the energy and intensity Diop brings when he's in the game, versus that which Dampier brings....it's clear that Dampier is still playing tentative and not always completely busting his ass. Which is why I'd always rather have Diop in the game over Damp.
Yeah, and I'm not saying Dampier isn't playing better right now than he ever has as a Maverick. But to make that statement really isn't say a whole of a lot.
Gimme Diop in there any day over Damp.
What happened right after that is Wade getting bailed out by the refs. Hard to put that on Damp.And that's all i need to read. momentarily. what did he do in the other 47 minutes of the game?
The only thing to take into consideration when evaluating a player's performance is A) how much talent does he have? and B) does he give 100% out on the court?In an era where money is such a huge factor of the game, it must be taken into consideration.
What you're doing is playing General Manager and making a judgment about Dampier's contract, which incidentally I don't disagree with you about. You're just conflating the coach and general manager caps.
His last year in Golden State he put up numbers on a ty team because he got lots of looks and touches. Two less points and two less rebounds is not all the surprising given that he's on an elite team now where he's at best the fifth offensive option and Dirk and Howard are both good rebounders.Dampier AVERAGED a double-double the year before he signed with the Mavs. If he was doing the same thing here, I wouldn't complain. And really, am I asking too much. At this point, he only needs to average about two more points and two more rebounds for me to be satisfied with him. He can't push himself hard enough to get two more points or two more rebounds?
Do you know something Avery doesn't? I always thought the reason Dampier got more minutes is because he's a bit better offensively and Diop doesn't have the greatest conditioning or stamina. I think there's a reason Dampier gets 25 mpg and Diop only 16. If Diop were suddenly asked to start playing 30+ a night, I think his effectiveness would go down steeply. As with everybody else on this team, Avery has a way of maximizing Diop's strengths and hiding his flaws and weaknesses.Which is why I'd always rather have Diop in the game over Damp.
LOL okay well if ur in the "the refs screwed us" camp, then I seriously need to question your judgement in anything basketball related.
15 years ago, sure. In the era of salary caps and guaranteed contracts, you HAVE to take money into consideration.
And perhaps that should have been taken into consideration before signing him to an ungodly contract.
It's actually 4 less points and 4 less rebounds. He put up 12/12/2blocks in GS. I just said two and two because that's what he needs to average a double-double right now.
I know it's blasphemy to criticize Avery for anything, but he's got his little pets that he likes to insist on playing no matter what, along with people that are in his doghouse no matter what they do. He stated from the beginning that he was determined to turn Dampier into a great center, and it doesn't matter that Diop outplays him, he's going to keep forcing the issue with Dampier. He does the same thing with Stackhouse. I realize that Stack's done some great things for this team, but there are times where his carelessness REALLY hurts this team alot. And while Marquis Daniels wasn't perfect, there were times in the playoffs last season where this team really could have benefited from having Daniels in there instead of Stack. But Stack is Avery's buddy and Marquis was always in the doghouse, so Stack got to shoot 4 for 16 while Daniels wasted away on the bench.
LOL okay well if ur in the "the refs screwed us" camp, then I seriously need to question your judgement in anything basketball related.
Do you have to choose? How bout both? We screwed ourselves by not showing up at all in Game 4, playing subpar in Game 6 and letting them back into it in Game 3. As for Game 5, I don't see how anybody outside of Miami can deny Wade in particular and the Heat in general were bailed out by the refs. There's three other games in that series that can't be pinned on Bennett Salvatore. There's no doubt in my mind that the team that went back to Dallas up 3-2 was winning the series.
That's not what I'm talking about at all. You're talking about constructing a roster and spending your money efficiently. I'm talking about winning a game tomorrow, or more specifically, winning 16 games starting a month from now. When it comes to the question of "Is Damp leaving it all out on the court and doing enough for us to win a le?" then the answer is yes.15 years ago, sure. In the era of salary caps and guaranteed contracts, you HAVE to take money into consideration.
Stackhouse has an occassional clunker shooting-wise. So does Dirk or Terry or Howard. But what has Marquis Daniels done this year for Indiana? Nothing. Like Dampier, Stackhouse has had his ups and downs production-wise here in Dallas, but he was pretty good in the playofs last year and he's been pretty consistent and pretty good this year as well. And while we're comparing Stackhouse to Daniels, the former is a "heavy" that garners respect all throughout the league and has helped instill a measure of toughness to a formerly soft team. Daniels is a guy who had a few good games as a rookie and has failed to live up to the promise he showed. Who do you think his busting his ass and maximizing everything he has, Stack or the guy carousing out at ty bars until the wee hours of the morning? I'll take Stack over Daniels everytime.But Stack is Avery's buddy and Marquis was always in the doghouse, so Stack got to shoot 4 for 16 while Daniels wasted away on the bench.
Last edited by Findog; 03-24-2007 at 04:19 PM.
It's either the refs screwed us or they didn't. Bad calls are a part of the game. It's bull but you learn to live with it. But the refs didn't have to do with any game of that series.
And I still maintain that Diop does it better. As far as him leaving it all out on the court....I rarely see that out of Damp. No doubt Avery's getting more out of him than any other coach possibly could, but I still see a guy that tries to half-ass it every chance he gets, and occasionally shows up to play.
As far as him being a key to our winning a le - well, didn't you just say that his job was to not be a liability? How does having a guy like that help win les?
And what the does that have to do with ANYTHING? We're talking about what he did in Dallas, not what he's doing in Indiana.
No doubt Stack's helped us. He's also helped us lose a good number of playoff games with his poor shooting and even more atrocious shot selection.
Again, a result of being slotted by Avery. Once Nellie was gone, there was no way Avery was ever going to give Marquis a chance.
Again, this has to do with what Daniels did in Dallas. Was he going to be a strip club frequenter who gets into gunfights if he was still with the Mavericks? His environment in Indiana is causing that.
If we're going to bring that into question, then how about Stack's reputation BEFORE he came to Dallas....remember that? There was talk about him being the worst teammate and biggest locker room cancer in the league. People to this day still try to hold that against him. He was a product of his environment, just like Marquis is right now. What he's doing in Indiana is completely irrelevant, because he is a different person there than he would be if he was still here.
And whenever Stack's shot is falling and he knows his role, I will too. But there have been far too many times where Stackhouse isn't shooting well, and times where he starts thinking he's the star of his team again and begins throwing up the worst looking shots imaginable. In times like that, I would much rather have had Marquis in there. If anything to throw a curveball to the opposing team. But like I said, Avery's got his buddies and his whipping boys, and that won't change.
no you imcompetent . he got more points because he was in a contract year. dont you know anything about sports?
Im convinced that Dampier's play puts Dallas over the edge. right now i would take Dampier over that washed up "has been" in Tim Duncan. Frankly, the current Dallas Dynasty is on a tear that might never be equaled in the current Cenozoic Era.
Damp & Diop both need to be motivated on a regular basis which is ridiculous for a professional athlete. To say (I forget who said it above) that Diop brings it everyday and Damp doesn't is ridiculous. Although Damp still needs to be motivated from time to time, at least he spent a lot of time in the off season working on his game & conditioning. Diop came into camp out of shape and was fairly worthless for the first month of the season. Diop is a better shot-blocker and does a better job defensively against quicker big men but Damp is a better offensive player and rebounder (especically offensive rebounding). As mentioned, both players seem to not be motivated for a few games every now and then. You can always tell when Avery has given each of them a little motivational speech as their increased efforts are obvious.
I think together they work well for what the Mavs need out of that position. They both just need to be more consistent as it would be nice for both of them to be playing really hard at the same time (which is rare).
They say that when it comes to pregnancy, you are or you aren't. They say that when it comes to being a sexual, you're either gay or you're not gay. There's no such thing as in between. But I think there IS such a thing as being between the "We got screwed!" and "Suck it up and stop whining!" camps. We'll just have to agree to disagree on Game Five. It's not just Maverick fans who maintain we were jobbed in that one. Do you recall Maverick defenders being alllowed to body up Wade and aggressively defend him? No, he got a bushel of ticky-tack fouls. Did Haslem and Posey get leeway from the officials to body up Dirk and be aggressive and physical? yes. If it comes down to a missed call here or there, you put yourself in that position by not taking care of business. There's three games in that series where Miami earned a win. Game Five was egregious. Like I said, the team that won Game Five was most likely going on to win the series. Miami was not going to go back to Dallas and win two straight, and it was going to be extremely hard for Dallas to do the same.It's either the refs screwed us or they didn't. Bad calls are a part of the game. It's bull but you learn to live with it. But the refs didn't have to do with any game of that series.
Yeah, he's an upgrade over Bradley, LaFrentz and Scott Williams.As far as him being a key to our winning a le - well, didn't you just say that his job was to not be a liability? How does having a guy like that help win les?
Now that he's been given a fresh start and a chance to start over and show what he can do, he's done nothing with it. Rick Carslisle doesn't seem to be any more impressed with him than Avery.And what the does that have to do with ANYTHING? We're talking about what he did in Dallas, not what he's doing in Indiana.
Again, this has to do with what Daniels did in Dallas. Was he going to be a strip club frequenter who gets into gunfights if he was still with the Mavericks? His environment in Indiana is causing that.
What, you think he all of the sudden turned into a lazy troublemaker in Indy? I have a coworker that is friends with Marquis. Daniels has enjoyed the reefer and late night carousing for quite some time, and this was part of what caused problems for him with Avery.
Well, when Marquis starts contributing on the court and staying into trouble off of it, then I'll agree with you. Stackhouse has already proven his worth and the doubters wrong. Daniels is nowhere near reaching that threshold yet.If we're going to bring that into question, then how about Stack's reputation BEFORE he came to Dallas....remember that? There was talk about him being the worst teammate and biggest locker room cancer in the league. People to this day still try to hold that against him. He was a product of his environment, just like Marquis is right now. What he's doing in Indiana is completely irrelevant, because he is a different person there than he would be if he was still here.
Stick to what you do best: Falsely outing Troy Aikman.
And what does that matter? Just because we've had total dog at center means that all of a sudden we can lower our standards and just accept mediocre because "hey, mediocre is better than total dog !"???? Just because Dampier is better than Shawn ing Bradley doesn't mean he's the best option at center for THIS team. To think that Dampier is our best option at center is one of two things - 1) lazy scouting by the Mavericks (which I highly doubt) or 2) Avery forcing the issue with Dampier.
What fresh start? He's playing on the most dysfunctional franchise in the NBA for a horrible head coach? How is that a fresh start?
LOL. Yeah dude....I've got a coworker who's friends with Marquis as well. He says he was a model citizen in Dallas. This coworker also hangs out with Gheorge Muresan and Sydney Pollack on a regular basis.
If that's the case, I'm sure Avery must have a problem with 75% of his team then. If you think Daniels was the only one enjoying a little weed and partying, you're hilariously mistaken. I believe there's very embarrassing pictures of Dirk's partying ways. But in Dallas, there's at least enough discipline to stay away from sketchy areas of town....not the same in Indiana.
Jesus ing Christ, like i've said ad nauseam, this has NOTHING to do with Daniel's performance this season...it has everything to do with Stackhouse having some supremely awful playoff games, but Avery continuing to play his buddy instead of giving Daniels a chance, especially after a season where Daniels provided a spark and energy for the team for the small amounts of time he was allowed in the game.
Oh yes, a great contribution from the guy who can't write a coherent sentence or any kind of a structured argument, so he responds with lightly humorous pictures. Good job.
dampier sucks.
ANYONE arguing for daniels is doing some pretty selective cutting and pasting together of good games. dampier plays harder night in and night out and is more consistent than marquis. after his rookie year, and even a little bit during it (under Don Nelson, the god-king) he played with his head up his ass more often than not.
he had so much potential that IF he would have worked at it, he would still be here. do you honestly think that if avery saw anything from him he would have traded him away to indiana? and i dont know how you can say that this season is irrelevant. he got a chance on a new team, one with a lot less depth ahead of him and in a terrible conference. and he still cant play. darrel armstrong is seeing more time.
i was a huge quis fan for awhile but his game never grew. he cant hit the corner three like stack, and daniels could never give the mavs what stackhouse is giving them with assists this year.
everyone wants to bag on stackhouse for the last couple years, but honestly this year hes been really consistent and has found some really good ways to help the team. if he doesnt score, he gets assists. sometimes he's even played some decent defense, and every once in awhile, he'll go off with a bang. the difference this year is that when he's not scoring, hes finding other ways to help the team
It took the Spurs 24 years to win their 1st.if the Celtics last won a championship in 1986, how does that stand the test of time? by my count thats 20 years (21 years cause they arent winning this year
How many more years to win 13 more?
Celts 16
Spurs 3
Is your dad also your brother?It took the Spurs 24 years to win their 1st.
How many more years to win 13 more?
Celts 16
Spurs 3
Is your mouth also your asshole?
Your great at insulting people, I wish your basketball IQ was that good.
Celtics 91
Spurs 85
Last edited by Celtic Pride; 03-26-2007 at 06:57 AM.
What playoff games would those be, exactly? I'm wondering exactly which of those 16 playoff losses Stack has been a part of where you would solely put the blame on him.No doubt Stack's helped us. He's also helped us lose a good number of playoff games with his poor shooting and even more atrocious shot selection.
That's funny. Let's flog Dampier relentlessly and then be an apologist for a guy with an at ude problem that can't seem to be bothered with preparing himself for games. If he can't stay out of trouble in Indi-freaking-napolis, how would he fare in a place like Dallas? Whatever happened to expecting people to be professionals, personal responsibility, accountability? If I were a guy like Daniels, and I was struggling to get minutes and be part of the rotation of a ty Leastern team, I'd be a gym rat instead of a strip club rat. He should have the good sense enough to put basketball first. He got that big midlevel deal and he hasn't been the same player since. I think a bit of roster insecurity would do wonders for him if he's up to the challenge, because I DO think he's got promise and potential. But it's ridiculous to put him in the same sentence as Stack. Stack's accomplished a of a lot more in his career and reinvented himself. When Daniels does the same, then we can talk.Again, this has to do with what Daniels did in Dallas. Was he going to be a strip club frequenter who gets into gunfights if he was still with the Mavericks? His environment in Indiana is causing that.
Stackhouse has proven those people wrong. Daniels has had ample opportunities to do the same and can't get it done.If we're going to bring that into question, then how about Stack's reputation BEFORE he came to Dallas....remember that? There was talk about him being the worst teammate and biggest locker room cancer in the league. People to this day still try to hold that against him.
And I'm not necessarily antipot or anti-strip club. I happen to be high right now. Michael Irvin could handle the nonstop partying. He still found time to prepare for the games. If Daniels was producing at a comparable level, he'd get a pass. You're not supposed to a give a guy a pass when he's not producing and he's out at night carousing. You have to earn that slack.
Game 1 of the WCSF, for starters. I'll put it this way - Stack is responsible for more Mavs playoff losses than Dwyane Wade or any ref.
Aren't those one and the same?
You're not getting the ing point. What he's doing in Indiana is completely ing irrelevant. If you're gonna keep harping on this, then you've obviously got no argument. I was talking about LAST YEAR with the MAVERICKS and how a few less 3 for 10 games from Stack and a few more minutes from Daniels would have done this team some good.
Why you keep bringing up what Daniels is currently doing, I have no clue. I don't give a what he's doing for some other team. But he was a solid, if inconsistent, contributor last season, and looking at the way Stackhouse played, I'd say Stack was the exact same thing. Daniels had a different skill set, and he tended to attack the basket a little more. So are you saying that this team didn't need to attack the basket any more than they did in the playoffs last year? That Stack jacking up 20 footers with 2 guys in his face was a better option than possibly giving Daniels a shot at dropping in a few easy buckets?
Ah, the retreat back to the three-point line. You lose as a team and you win as a team. Who had the faulty rotation and left Bowen available for an open three in the closing moments? Stack ed up there, but he wasn't the only one.Game 1 of the WCSF, for starters. I'll put it this way - Stack is responsible for more Mavs playoff losses than Dwyane Wade or any ref.
It's completely relevant because you keep insisting that he got a raw deal here in Dallas and was kept off the court because Avery doesn't make the most astute decisions when it comes to doling out playing time. Now he's on a lesser talented team with a real hole at shooting guard, a much better position to prove that he deserved some of Stack's minutes, and he still can't get on the court or contribute when he does. This season is relevant because it's proved that until he decides to start working harder, he's a spare, and he's going to remain a spare.You're not getting the ing point. What he's doing in Indiana is completely ing irrelevant. .
And he doesn't. How else do you explain Nowitzki getting 41 minutes against ATLANTA while Croshere gets a DNP?
Like I said, I don't care one bit about what Daniels does on some other team. A player can be successful in one system while being a failure in another. How well or poorly he plays in Indiana is not at all indicative of how well or poorly he would have played if given a better opportunity here in Dallas......unless of course you're trying to say that the Dallas Mavericks system is run about as well as the Indiana Pacers.
thank you. his shot selection can be absolutely atrocious at times, and in times like that, the best place for Stackhouse is the bench. But seeing how he's Avery's little buddy, that won't happen. He'll just get to shoot 25% from the field.
As long as Stack is passing as well as he's been doing, and playing decent defense...I think Avery is willing to put up with the times when he's shooting poorly. I think most coaches have to be willing to put up with cold shooting from "scorers" like Stack. Stack is not a "shooter" so you really can't ask him to pick his spots to shoot. I understand that with this thinking you have to put up with some instances where Stack can hurt the team but overall he's a big positive for the team. Everyone has the right to their own opinion but I think you're apparent hatred for him is not letting you see the entire picture. I was and still am not a Stack fan but he's won me over because of his overall value to this team. I can take the occasional bad streaks.
I won't even go into the Daniels comparison to Stackhouse cuz that's just seriously ridiculous to me. Daniels didn't bring anything to the Mavs but an occasional good game. I still don't know if he's an under-achiever or just an inconsistent player but I'm more than ok with him not being on the team anymore. I really had high hopes for him and defended him all the time but he's just turned out to be an average to below-average NBA player.
Sometimes I seriously hate being a Mavs fan in this day and age.
It's funny how eager Mavs fans are willing to on a player as soon as they're gone, forgetting any good that they mave have contributed to this team. Just because he didn't develop as quickly as Josh Howard, suddenly Daniels is total . They forget that the guy made big contributions for this team at times, and always shot at a high percentage. But then again, what else would I expect from a group of fans classless enough to boo Michael Finley.
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