No, it is not that I want an argument...I want a reasoned discussion to find whether or not I might be wrong. I do not wish to hear that we have this system, have had this system, and will have this system in order that you might claim its just nature...I want to know whether or not it was just to have been ins uted in the first place...
No, not even if it is just, but if it is smart. I want to know how you respond to my claims regarding faith and politics.
We have no proof of God, we have no proof of God breaking commandments.
All that we have is the ability to use our measure of reason to see what God could do if "he/she" had specific attributes, and then judge by those whether this idea of God is compatible with our universe.
True True
I dont know. Im not sure.
Your perspective on this matter is rather binding.
We can't judge or decide to end someone's life because humans are not perfect.
The difference is that GOD is.
HE is Supremely Just... and therefore is en led to judge; we on the other hand are not.
So when He decides to end someone's life, He really can do as He pleases, because ultimately He isn't doing it at some whim. There is a purpose behind everyone of His actions... perfection requires it. We simply don't always understand that purpose, nor is it always revealed.
Last edited by Phenomanul; 03-29-2007 at 04:36 PM.
So our definition of being perfect isnt the same as Gods?
NO.
We can't conceive GOD's concept of perfection. It is too simple and yet infinitely complex.
Yes thats right because the Bible version of God does not fit my definition of perfection, justice, or love.NO.
We can't conceive GOD's concept of perfection. It is too simple and yet infinitely complex.
Have you even read the Bible or are you simply basing this on 'what you think you know about the Bible' from some passage you heard here or a fragment read there?
I'm curious to know how you would define said terms.
Yes Im reading it as we speak.
I have read it throughout most of my life. Focusing on the meat and ignoring the geaniologies. 11 years of Catholic school, church twice a week, altar boy, Colombian Squire. The more I learn about organized religion the easier it is to see through it. There is nothing I want more than to live forever but I see that as an empty promise made by men, not God.
My definitions, without going to the dictionary
Love is to do whats best for another.
Perfection, just doesnt have any flaws
Justice, not punishing someone for unfairly or without clear reason
Tell me about yourself holyman.
I gota go buy some Hooks tickets. I live in Corpus to.
And why does God have to be "compatible"? God, as the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, is under no obligation to anyone- it is His benevolence which prompts God to make Himself accessible to humans.
We'll have to continue the discussion later... I'm late for an appointment.
I think you've become entangled amongst your own semantics hegamboa, to say (devout) christians hate the sin, not the sinner, and don't judge gays, is, well
dude you're wrong.
Although my beliefs are almost exactly Christian, I have to agree with this. Christians are the most judgmental people ever, especially the more devout ones. Most of the ones I know shun gay people as well as alcoholics, smokers, druggies, etc., people with problems that are considered sin in the Bible.
God must be compatible with the logical system that he/she instilled.
For instance, if God if perfect, then God cannot make a square circle because to do so would be to lie to manking, which is a self-serving weakness.
Under the same reasoning, God could not go against his/her own commandments.
But aren't you making the assumption that God's and mans' logic need be the same?
God can be perfectly right without making sense to you or me.
Then, even assuming you are right, which is not a given, God would be deceiving us in a manner contrary to the nature supposed of God if we were to be lead to believe that a logical system was universal, when God could break from its use on a whim.
Or maybe our finite brains are only capable of comprehending portions of the universal truth of which God is Master.
There is no shame in God being smarter than you. And He is, whether you ever acknowledge it or no.
or maybe our brains will unlock the secret of God? who knows. neurology is a outstanding and almost and infinite area of work.
I have a question for everyone. If we exactly figured out the science of neurology (EXACTLY) would that bring more case for proof against or for the existence of God???
No matter how great the man or woman, he/she can't outdo God.
I say that as if anyone could even come close.
God, or a Christian God?Or maybe our finite brains are only capable of comprehending portions of the universal truth of which God is Master.
There is no shame in God being smarter than you. And He is, whether you ever acknowledge it or no.
Remember, God hates adjectives.
I dont know.
I fold.
What do you have Phil?
Edit: Derailment withdrawn after further thread reading..
Last edited by Spurminator; 03-29-2007 at 10:05 PM.
The God of the Christian Bible.
It's not like the concept is beyond comprehension.... I thought you were smarter than that. Judgement is cast when one man condemns another for their actions be it literal or in their mind. I have not the right, nor the authority to do either. Am I capable of judging others? Sure, it is an inescapable human attribute that can sometimes occur without much effort. Many times much like an involuntary response. I try not to dwell on such matters, for I've never claimed to be perfect.
Ever heard of the biblical phrase "let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."? Or "don't worry about the speck in your brother's eye when you have a log sticking out of yours"
Well.... that's exactly the topic they refer to... We should avoid casting judgement. So while we have been given the knowledge and spiritual discernment of knowing what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'... i.e. we can identify one from the other.... calling something by its name is not tantamount to passing judgment on it. It's not a matter of semantics. The concept is crystal clear...
Which is why we and other churches take them in and help them break the 'shackles' that have bound them to their vices. I see.... While that may be true for others [being judgemental Christians]... It certainly wouldn't apply to those who have taken JESUS"s ministry to heart - the true Christian calling. But we ought not take glory for this -- that belongs solely to GOD. Again, calling a sin by its name is not tantamount to passing judgment on those who practice it. Nor is having an aversion to the sin tantamount to a rejection of the 'sinner'.
Food for thought - since you consider "christians to be the most judgemental people ever" The world's most notorious dictators and tyrants... Self-proclaimed judges... the likes of Nero, Napoleon, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin.... Yeah... some 'christians' they turned out to be.Oh wait!...... That's right - most of these cruel tyrants ruled with a wanton disregard for life because they lacked the conviction that they would be held accountable to a higher authority. They took it upon themselves to do as they pleased.
Last edited by Phenomanul; 03-30-2007 at 11:35 AM.
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