Is the Suns vs Mavs the best rivalry?

[Findog]

Now if Nash had a problem with the Mavs and talked about "sticking it to the Mavs" then you might have something to start a rivalry, but he has no problem with the Mavs and is on very good terms with the players. He understands that its all business.

Uh, you're dead wrong here. Yes, he's best buds with Dirk, he recalls his time here fondly, but there is nothing he wants to do more than stick it to Cuban. It drives and animates him. He's said many times that he "didn't feel wanted" after his tenure in Dallas and he wants to prove Cuban wrong for not valuing his contributions enough to match Phoenix's offer.

The Suns simply dont bring out the "Hatred" in the fans. Mavs fans still look fondly at Nash

I still like Nash and all, but I HATE the Suns. Don't know why. I think it might be because both franchises are so close to a le and I want the Mavs to get there first. It will sting like if the Suns beat us to it. I'll be happy personally for Nash, but that's about it.

The same isn't true with Finley, he went to the Spurs (our rival) to get a ring. Letting both players go was business, Finley made it personal with where he went afterward.

Give me a break, this is pure horse . As much I loved Finley (hence my handle), I understood it made too much financial sense not to use the Houston exemption on him. And at that point, he owed the Mavericks franchise nothing. The Spurs were the defending champs at the time. There's nothing wrong with going to the place where you think you have the best chance of getting that elusive ring. He guessed wrong last year. He may yet be right though. Loyalty is a two-way street, you can't cut a guy and then get mad at him if he goes to your biggest rival. Minnesota and Denver were hot for him as well. What was he supposed to do, go to a lottery team so he could still get his 40 minutes a night? Time's running out for Finley, and Mavs fans have no right to complain about his destination. This line of reasoning irritates me to no end.

[da_suns_fan__]

Nit picky are we?


Well your assuming wrong on behalf of da_suns_fan, he even said it himself that he wasn't talking about the mav/suns rivalry. I'm going by his logic, as in playoff match ups. Go back and reread his posts. Again strictly by his logic. Besides who the goes by season series when deciding NBA rivalries? For example the games that are to be played with in the next couple of weeks will be meaningless due to teams sitting out their best players. So therefore regular season data wouldn't hold much weight in that regard.


It doesn't matter how you want to look at it. The bottom line is victories were exchanged and regardless if you look at it 3-2 or 14-11 there isn't a wide gap between the two.

I stand guilty of not counting the lockout year...no Phil jackson, shortented season..nothing even worth remembering.

However, during the Lakers run with Phil Jackson, the Lakers were 14-7 against the Spurs in the playoffs.

Thats not a rivalry. Sorry.

Again, the Kings and Lakers had a nice rivalry going around the same time, and they actually had a series worth remembering.

[Dalhoop]

Uh, you're dead wrong here. Yes, he's best buds with Dirk, he recalls his time here fondly, but there is nothing he wants to do more than stick it to Cuban. It drives and animates him. He's said many times that he "didn't feel wanted" after his tenure in Dallas and he wants to prove Cuban wrong for not valuing his contributions enough to match Phoenix's offer.

Your arguement hold little water. It doesn't drive him in game vs the Mavs, if it did he would SAY SOMETHING. Don't you think that in the ESPN age if he came out and said everytime the played the Mavs "I am going to stick it to the Mavs" that it would be reported?

You see the difference is hidden in your own post, He wants to stick it to Cuban, not the Mavs and his buddies on the team. Not liking an owner that doesn't pay you what you think that your worth, is not something that a rivalry can be based on. Its something that happens all the time in the NBA .. Its old hat.

I still like Nash and all, but I HATE the Suns. Don't know why. I think it might be because both franchises are so close to a le and I want the Mavs to get there first. It will sting like if the Suns beat us to it. I'll be happy personally for Nash, but that's about it.

I like Nash too and sense he runs the team, I find it hard to dislike the Suns. Add to that the fact that they play a very intertaining brand of Basketball and its even harder for me to dislike them. Now do I want them to win over the Mavs? No, but the same is true of every team. I may like them, but not that much. The only team that I do not like is the Pistons, I don't like the way they play or some of the personalities on the team.

Give me a break, this is pure horse .

It making sense and me liking it are too different things, its the difference between a rivalry and not. There were only two or three teams that logicaly Finley would have went to, he went to the Spurs. I am sure that it made sense on all fronts, that doesn't mean that, as a Mavs fan, he should still be loved. I do think that his number will be retired in the future and I will honor that (He did some great things for the franchise), but as a player right now, him playing for the hated Spurs and the Spurs being the main road block between the Mavs and a Championship.

He is just on the wrong side.

Loyalty is a two-way street, you can't cut a guy and then get mad at him if he goes to your biggest rival. Minnesota and Denver were hot for him as well. What was he supposed to do, go to a lottery team so he could still get his 40 minutes a night? Time's running out for Finley, and Mavs fans have no right to complain about his destination. This line of reasoning irritates me to no end.

Explain why I, as a fan, cannot be mad at him for playing for a rival? Because it makes sense? So what. Because he didn't want ot play for a lotto team? So what. Players do what is best for themselves all the time, some are good for the team, others not. Do I care about the reasons? No at all.

What does matter is that at one time he was the face of the franchise, now he is playing for the enemy. Explain why I cannot hate him for those simple facts.

[Findog]

that doesn't mean that, as a Mavs fan, he should still be loved.

Considering he carried the franchise for years, yes, he should still be loved. I won't forget what he did for the Mavericks no matter what uniform he wears.

Explain why I, as a fan, cannot be mad at him for playing for a rival? Because it makes sense?

I didn't say you couldn't root against him when the Spurs play the Mavs. Should we meet in the conference finals, I hope he has a ty series, as well as his teammates. And you can be mad at him and "hate" him all you want, you're free to believe and feel as you wish. My point is that Finley himself has done nothing to earn your vitriol. Once a player is kicked the curb by a franchise, he no longer should feel under any obligation to help that franchise out. I suppose it would've been best for the Mavs if he had gone to a lotto team. Well Findog cares more about winning at this stage of his career. Hard to fault him for that.

Explain why I cannot hate him for those simple facts.

I didn't say you couldn't hate him. It's a free country. I just think being mad at him for signing with the Spurs is irrational and unreasonable.

[Findog]

You see the difference is hidden in your own post, He wants to stick it to Cuban, not the Mavs and his buddies on the team.

Really, what is the difference? Mark Cuban IS the Dallas Mavericks. There was a quote from Dirk after the double overtime game, something to the effect that Nash loves sticking it to Dallas. It's a rivalry, just read Jack McCallum's 7 seconds or less book. There's a passage in there when he's writing about the conference finals from last season, and he goes on to enumerate all of the reasons why the Suns players, coaches and front office HATE the Mavericks. They certainly respect Avery and the talent we have, but there is a visceral dislike on the part of the Suns and their fanbase towards the Mavericks. I think Cuban is a wonderful owner and he's resurrected a dead franchise. But he's widely despised around the league for his antics. The Mavericks are widely despised around the league because Cuban has turned the AAC into a WWE-like atmosphere. I think there's a qualitative difference between this rivalry and the one we had with the Webber/Peja Kings. That was more like a sibling rivarly between two teams that played similar styles, had similar iconoclastic owners and had an enormous amount of mutual respect and admiration for one another. The Suns and the Mavs respect each other alright, but there's a dynamic there of loathing -- the Suns graduating to elite status thanks to stealing away our pointguard, a feeling on Phoenix's part that the Mavericks players and staff acted arrogant and took the Suns lightly during the 04-05 semifinals loss. No love lost between these two teams. I get the sense that Spurs-Mavs is all business, there's no real animosity except between the two fanbases.

[Cry Havoc]

I stand guilty of not counting the lockout year...no Phil jackson, shortented season..nothing even worth remembering.

However, during the Lakers run with Phil Jackson, the Lakers were 14-7 against the Spurs in the playoffs.

Thats not a rivalry. Sorry.

Again, the Kings and Lakers had a nice rivalry going around the same time, and they actually had a series worth remembering.

Classic troll post, with the, "Only the games I am old enough to remember as a fan count."

And of course, it discounts the fact that many people around the U.S. consider the Red Sox - Yankees the greatest rivalry in baseball, if not all of sports, despite the fact that the Yankees have until recently have a nearly unblemished record in the post-season against the Sox.

But keep wandering through your own little dreamland.

[Dalhoop]

Really, what is the difference? Mark Cuban IS the Dallas Mavericks.

I have seen this many times. Still don't understand it. I haven't seen Cuban play and don't really care too, he wouldn't make the team, so he is not what he trots out onto the floor at game time.

He had determained the course of the team, but others have steered the path, most resently Avery. Now he does like to be close to the players and take part in non-gametime decisions, but thats only natural concidering that he does own the team.

Explaining why the Suns players hate the Mavs matters very little to me, I mean, who cares if another team doesn't like us. The Suns need a rival, they don't have anyone that they can call that. Now because maybe (I say maybe because it could be a case of a team trying to stur up hatered to form a rivalry) they don't like the Mavs that means that its the greatest rivalry iin the NBA? I don't think so.

Why should I hate the Suns? Because they beat us in the playoffs a few years ago? Because they offered Nash two extra years on a contract?

Why do they hate the Mavs again?

A feeling on Phoenix's part that the Mavericks players and staff acted arrogant and took the Suns lightly during the 04-05 semifinals loss.

They hate the Mavs because they beat the Mavs in the playoffs? Does that make any sense? (Maybe you can hate a team when you loose to them, but when you win .. ?) They hate us because we thought that we should have put up a better fight?

The Mavericks are widely despised around the league because Cuban has turned the AAC into a WWE-like atmosphere.

Do you mean like playing music load and having dancers and entertainment during stopages? All teams do that, Did Cuban start that? Way to go Cubes. Because he understands that after paying you money for a ticket you should be entertained? Because he likes to get the croud loud?

What exactly does that mean?

But he's widely despised around the league for his antics.

And here is that key.

"Widely Dispised" ... Those are big words, how many owners have spoken out about him? How many players have said that he is bad for the league and wouldn't play for his team? How many GM's have said that is a bad owner?

I can understand Fan hatred, they see a good owner that is excited about his team and wish they had an owner that is as interested in the basketball as in the money to be made as owner.

But "Widely Dispised" ... Everyone during interviews say that he is good for the league, a breath of fresh air, a catalist for change, changes that needed to be made.

When word got out that he thought about selling the Mavs after the playoffs the storys were not about "Damn, he didn't get out of the NBA" they were about "His loss as an owner would hurt the NBA"

"Widely Dispised" I don't think so.

[Findog]

The Suns need a rival, they don't have anyone that they can call that.

Ahem. There's a team from Los Angeles whose colors are purple and gold.

Why should I hate the Suns? Because they beat us in the playoffs a few years ago? Because they offered Nash two extra years on a contract?

I didn't say you SHOULD hate the Suns. I said I hated the Suns. I already stated my reasons.

They hate the Mavs because they beat the Mavs in the playoffs? Does that make any sense?

No, of course not, but that's not what I said. I said they disliked the Mavs because of perceived disrespect.

Do you mean like playing music load and having dancers and entertainment during stopages? All teams do that, Did Cuban start that? Way to go Cubes. Because he understands that after paying you money for a ticket you should be entertained? Because he likes to get the croud loud?

What exactly does that mean?

I should have been more specific. I was talking about Humble Billy Hayes.

[da_suns_fan__]

Classic troll post, with the, "Only the games I am old enough to remember as a fan count."

And of course, it discounts the fact that many people around the U.S. consider the Red Sox - Yankees the greatest rivalry in baseball, if not all of sports, despite the fact that the Yankees have until recently have a nearly unblemished record in the post-season against the Sox.

But keep wandering through your own little dreamland.

You want to compare Yankees/Redsocks to Lakers/Spurs and then tell me that Im in "dreamland"?



You still haven't convinced anyone the Spurs/Lakers had anything resembling a rivalry.

Let me ask you something? When was the defining moment of this "rivalry", huh? When did things get REALLY heated?

Surely this imaginary rivalry would have a climax!

[FromWayDowntown]

IAgain, the Kings and Lakers had a nice rivalry going around the same time, and they actually had a series worth remembering.

When, exactly, did the Kings ever beat the Lakers when it mattered? I somehow don't seem to remember that EVER happening. In fact, during the "heyday" of that "rivalry," the Lakers were 11-5 against the Kings in playoff games and 3-0 in playoff series. Given your definition of a rivalry, which seems to require that the teams generally split games (among other things), calling Kings-Lakers anything more than a bad blood matchup is disingenuous.

[FromWayDowntown]

You want to compare Yankees/Redsocks to Lakers/Spurs and then tell me that Im in "dreamland"?



You still haven't convinced anyone the Spurs/Lakers had anything resembling a rivalry.

Let me ask you something? When was the defining moment of this "rivalry", huh? When did things get REALLY heated?

Surely this imaginary rivalry would have a climax!

You'd be a fool to think that the Spurs didn't make every move between 2000 and 2004 aiming to beat LA. And you'd be a fool to think that the Lakers didn't make every move between 1999 and 2004 aiming to beat the Spurs.

Those games didn't create a rivalry in the sense that there was any bad blood between the teams. But it was apparent to anyone who watched those games that there was an unbelievable level of respect between the teams, with each tending to bring out the best in the other, particularly after the 2001 WCF.

If you want a climax to that rivalry, look at Game 5 of the 2004 WCSF. The .4 game. Spurs fans still hurt over that; and Lakers' fans printed t-shirts within hours of that game to celebrate their incredible good fortune. You don't do that kind of stuff if there isn't a significant rivalry going on.

[monosylab1k]

Considering he carried the franchise for years, yes, he should still be loved. I won't forget what he did for the Mavericks no matter what uniform he wears.

Thank you. I've said this alot, but I still think that the most embarrassing, shameful moment in Mavericks history was Finley getting booed in Dallas. Worse than any 11 win season.

[da_suns_fan__]

When, exactly, did the Kings ever beat the Lakers when it mattered? I somehow don't seem to remember that EVER happening. In fact, during the "heyday" of that "rivalry," the Lakers were 11-5 against the Kings in playoff games and 3-0 in playoff series. Given your definition of a rivalry, which seems to require that the teams generally split games (among other things), calling Kings-Lakers anything more than a bad blood matchup is disingenuous.

Hey Junior,

The "heyday" of that rivalry was in 2002, when they met in the western conference finals and had a seven game series where the seventh game went into overtime.


Educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakers-Kings_rivalry

This guy makes all spurs fans look bad.

[monosylab1k]

Hey Junior,

The "heyday" of that rivalry was in 2002, when they met in the western conference finals and had a seven game series where the seventh game went into overtime.


Educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakers-Kings_rivalry

you have to beat a team before it's a rivalry.

[FromWayDowntown]

From page 1 of this thread:

Thats not exactly a rivalry. Teams have to exchange victories for it to be a rivalry.

Again, when exactly did the Kings ever beat the Lakers?

It's your criteria, not mine.

[FromWayDowntown]

The "heyday" of that rivalry was in 2002, when they met in the western conference finals and had a seven game series where the seventh game went into overtime.

Besides, if that was any sort of criteria, then what exactly do Suns/Mavs games have over Spurs/Mavs games? After all, the last time the Spurs and Mavs met in the playoffs, the series went to 7 games and Game 7 went to OT.

[da_suns_fan__]

Besides, if that was any sort of criteria, then what exactly do Suns/Mavs games have over Spurs/Mavs games? After all, the last time the Spurs and Mavs met in the playoffs, the series went to 7 games and Game 7 went to OT.

I also don't believe the Suns/Mavs have a great rivalry going.

They're both great teams, but there's not HATRED there for each other.

[FromWayDowntown]

I also don't believe the Suns/Mavs have a great rivalry going.

They're both great teams, but there's not HATRED there for each other.

So it's not a rivalry until there are flagrant fouls being thrown around AND there is smack running between the teams AND they play great basketball games AND they split results? Is that what you're saying?

That seems to be a ridiculously high standard -- if that's what you think, then you must believe that there are no existing rivalries in the NBA and haven't really been any since Pistons/Bulls in the late 80's and early 90's.

[TonyParkerSux]

Spurs-Mavs for sure. lots of history between the two, they are in the same division, and have been two of the best teams in the league foe several seasons now. they always seem to be battling in the regular season for the best conference record and for SW division supremecy, and they often collide in the post season.

Detroit Miami is pretty good over in the East also...

[da_suns_fan__]

So it's not a rivalry until there are flagrant fouls being thrown around AND there is smack running between the teams AND they play great basketball games AND they split results? Is that what you're saying?

That seems to be a ridiculously high standard -- if that's what you think, then you must believe that there are no existing rivalries in the NBA and haven't really been any since Pistons/Bulls in the late 80's and early 90's.

Great Rivalries since the Pistons/Bulls rivalry:

Knicks/Bulls in the early ninetees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls-Knicks_rivalry

Heat/Knicks in the late ninetees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knicks-Heat_rivalry

Kings/Lakers in the early 2000s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakers-Kings_rivalry

I don't think San Antonio has the persona to create a "great rivalry". They have nothing but nice things to say about everybody. They have super quality guys, but as far as rivalries go....

[monosylab1k]

Great Rivalries since the Pistons/Bulls rivalry:

Knicks/Bulls in the early ninetees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls-Knicks_rivalry

Heat/Knicks in the late ninetees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knicks-Heat_rivalry

Kings/Lakers in the early 2000s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakers-Kings_rivalry

I don't think San Antonio has the persona to create a "great rivalry". They have nothing but nice things to say about everybody. They have super quality guys, but as far as rivalries go....

lol so it's not a rivalry unless wikipedia says so?

Lakers-Kings was NOT a rivalry, it can't be a rivalry when one team always wins.

[Cry Havoc]

Getting your asses handed to you three out of four years without your opponent even blinking an eye isn't a rivalry.

Kings/Lakers in the early 2000s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakers-Kings_rivalry

Any more brazen idiocy you want to share with us in your posts?

[da_suns_fan__]

Any more brazen idiocy you want to share with us in your posts?

Gotta nothin new to add? I take it your done with this "Lakers/Spurs rivalry" garbage?

btw..Kings had more wins against the Lakers in 2000-2002 than the Spurs did.

Spurs only managed....uh...one.

(and you were trying to convince me of a rivalry).

[loveThe23]

lol so it's not a rivalry unless wikipedia says so?

Lakers-Kings was NOT a rivalry, it can't be a rivalry when one team always wins.

It so was. 02-03, that's where it ended. they didn't always win. it's complete zero rivalry now, but it was back then.... we were the true winners, you know..

[monosylab1k]

Gotta nothin new to add? I take it your done with this "Lakers/Spurs rivalry" garbage?

btw..Kings had more wins against the Lakers in 2000-2002 than the Spurs did.

Spurs only managed....uh...one.

(and you were trying to convince me of a rivalry).

yet again, a Suns fan putting huge significance in the regular season. Typical.

did the Kings EVER beat the Lakers in a playoff series? No. Not a rivalry.

did the Spurs beat the Lakers in a playoff series. Yes. Multiple times. and the Lakers did the same to the Spurs. There were players swapping sides and animosity towards each other. Rivalry.

And counting only 2000-2002 is just re ed. i swear, as soon as I start thinking that Suns fans have a freakin' clue, they pull this ...