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Nice take...but what are your thoughts on Khundia?
As SideTrackD pointed out...5 rings in 6 years. That's Auerbachian...without the 7 HOFers Auerbach had annually.
Seriously, I think winning percentages don't lie. Pop is in the top 5. With that said, I think there are other metrics by which to measure coaches, including the ability to lead and then how a team plays together regardless of the role players.
I personally think Auerbach, Riley, Holzman, Jackson, Daly and Popovich were/are all great leaders of men, motivators and built around their talent. There have been some outstanding basketball minds including Motta, Nelson, Larry Brown, Hubie Brown, Jack Ramsay, to name a few. You can't argue with results and Pop is right up there in the results department. He's been fortunate but he's also rotated lots of pieces he's always built and improved the hand he was dealt.
Nice take...but what are your thoughts on Khundia?
As SideTrackD pointed out...5 rings in 6 years. That's Auerbachian...without the 7 HOFers Auerbach had annually.
I dont think he would have.
The Jazz had matchup problems with Chicago. The Bulls had a great post defender to disrupt Karl Malone.
For the Jazz, you had Hornacek and Russell as your wing defenders to face Jordan and Pippen. Hornacek had to guard someone which is something the Bulls exposed.
The Bulls defensive strength was Pippen/Jordan's ability to play passing lanes and lock down creators. This was a good answer to Stockton.
Still, the Jazz faced off with arguably the best teams in the history of the NBA and played them as tough as anyone ever did.
Popovich never had to face a team as good as the Bulls. If I'm facing MJ, I'd rather go armed with Tim Duncan as Pop had than Malone. Plus, Sloan did defeat Pop 4-1 in 1998 with Tim Duncan a Spur.
I dont think Pop would be nearly as effective as Sloan on teams like the current Jazz, who are serious overachievers without a true star.
Defensively, both actually have very similar philosohpies, but Pop just has better personnel. And SLoan is a much better coach of offense than Pop.
And you know that how?pop would do about what sloan is doing
but I want spurs to win les so I want more talent onthe spurs
When has Pop ever been in that situation? Hasn't he actually been quoted as saying when Tim leaves, I leave (which implies Pop wouldnt even want to have to deal with the above scenario).
good point
for me, any argument of PJ being the greatest coach of all time got laid to rest when he pushed the suns to 7 games last year with the roster that he had. Yes, the lakers have been struggling lately, and they did lose the PHX series after being up 3-2, but PJ knows how to expose your weakness
I'd be very interested to see how Pop would do with a team like the current jazz or if he was handed the Hornets
nope.
Maybe!
I will wait a few more year to see what he can do without Duncan.
he'll retire when TD retires
Pop is a fantastic coach, but not quite top five. Here's my top ten:
1. Red Auerbach - the ultimate architect, Red built a dynasty around a defensive player. He saw the value in the transition game twenty-five years before "Showtime" and emphasized conditioning. As general manager, he drafted an entire wing of the Hall of Fame. As a coach, he recognized that the players make the plays, so he didn't demand that Cousy curtail the fancy elements of his game, nor did he demand that Russell attend practice all the time. Small concessions like those create fierce loyalty from players.
2. Phil Jackson - has never been the one to assemble the talent, and he has coached some of the greatest players of all time, but he has done wonders with those rosters. Four of his championship teams have won at least 67 games. Like all great coaches, Jackson insists on great defense and usually gets it; on the offensive end, Phil Jackson has been noted for his use of Tex Winters Triangle offense, which distinguishes Jackson from his peers.
3. Larry Brown - give this man a basketball team and he'll win with it in a few years, if not immediately. Had he stuck around in New York long enough, I have no doubt they would have made the playoffs this season or next. No coach is better at emphasizing the strengths and minimizing the weaknesses of his roster. No bench? Brown rides the starters. Athletic team? Brown picks up the pace. Defensive team? Brown slows the game down. Larry Brown has won with every kind of roster imaginable - in fact, I'd love to see another coach take the 2001 Philadelphia 76ers, win 56 games and reach the Finals with it. I'm doubting that any other coach but Brown could have done that.
4. Pat Riley - Riley has won everywhere he's gone, employing many different styles along the way; four les with the Showtime Lakers, a 1994 Finals appearance in New York, and a fifth le with the Heat over a superior (IMO) opponent. He's won with great players, like all top coaches must, although the 1994 Knicks didn't feature the greatest roster ever.
5. Bill Fitch - turned the expansion Cavaliers into a winner in the 70's, won the 1981 championship with Bird's Celtics, coached the Olajuwon-Sampson Rockets past the Lakers in 1986 before losing to the Celtics in the Finals, even snuck the Clippers into the playoffs in 1997. Like Auerbach, Fitch was a believer in conditioning and his halfcourt offenses were always very precise. Though the Celtics would win two les under KC Jones in 1984 and 1986, Larry Bird said that Fitch was the best coach he had ever known - and for that reason selected Fitch to present him during Bird's Hall of Fame induction.
6. Chuck Daly - Daly's Detroit teams were not cast in the image of their chief rivals, the Lakers and the Celtics. The late 80's Pistons, assembled by GM Jack McCloskey, were not top heavy. While the Celtics and Lakers had more All-Stars, Detroit had more talent 1-9 than their rivals and Daly took full advantage of this. Daly made extensive use of his roster and as a result his teams were fresher than everybody else come playoff time. Also, Daly was primarily responsible for the sort of team defense we see today. Daly's defenses, more frequently than any defense of that era, trapped, switched, double-teamed, and filled the lane. Coaches around the league complained, including Pat Riley, but by the end of the 1990's most coaches played this style of defense. Riley was one of the first to do so after Daly. In fact, it was said that the NBA's adoption of the zone defense was the result of referees having to call the illegal defense violation multiple times, night after night. Coaches enjoyed moving their defenders around, so the league adjusted its rules.
7. Gregg Popovich - perhaps the NBA's greatest proponent of "defense first", Popovich has had the great luxury of going into every contest with the greatest power forward of all time, Tim Duncan, on his team. Despite Duncan's ubiquity, the rest of the roster hasn't always been constant - but the winning has. Popovich inherited an All-Star calibur David Robinson and won a le with he and Duncan in 1999; the same Robinson was relegated to role player status in 2003, but the Spurs won a second NBA le. That 2003 team was a testament to Duncan's greatness on the floor and Popovich's greatness on the bench - the 2003 roster was very old (Robinson, Steve Smith, Danny Ferry, Steve Kerr, Kevin Willis) AND very young (Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Speedy Claxton). Despite such a schizophrenic roster, that team won 60 games, dethroned the three-peat champion LA Lakers, and went on to win the championship. Some may discredit Popovich's accomplishments due to Duncan's presence on the roster, but many players in Duncan's class haven't enjoyed the same sort of sustained success. It takes a sound gameplan and strict attention to detail to win 58 games a year for ten years.
8. Don Nelson - see Larry Brown, although Nelson has an even greater instinct for attacking his opponent's weakness. Nelson's greatest failing as a coach was in never having a good enough roster to win at all, and Nelson himself was, at times, responsible for that state of affairs; he has been his own GM before.
9. John Kundla - he deserves some credit for the great run of the first Lakers dynasty, but I have him rated this low because Minneapolis not only had the best starting five going at that time (George Mikan, Vern Mikkelsen, Jim Pollard, and Slater Martin were the mainstays in that lineup), the rest of the league had no answer at all for Mikan. It wasn't like any other era in NBA history - Mikan literally was in a class by himself in the early 50's. He was averaging 27-28 points per game at a time when only one or two other players would average in the low 20's. Relative to the era, Kundla had the greatest weapon in league history on his side as well as other great players. Kundla did accomplish a lot, but in my opinion he had it easier than any other NBA coach ever has.
10. Hubie Brown - an assistant with the great 1972 Milwaukee Bucks, Hubie Brown won the 1975 ABA championship with quasi-Twin Towers (Artis Gilmore and Dan Issel), and he has coached numerous other franchises into the playoffs. He is noted for incorporating statistical analysis and charts into his preparation, and has long been a proponent of point differential as an indicator of success. He even won 50 games with Memphis. Read that last sentence again.
Bob Hill ranks just above Jerry Tarkanian, Morris McHone, and Vitale, in case you were wondering.
I was wondering if someone was going to mention Larry Brown.....SRJ beat me to it.
Here are some other names:
Jack Ramsey
Motta
Gene Shue
Red Holzman
Cotton Fitzsimmons
Prior to 06 playoffs....maybe
After 06 playoffs.......not even close
pop still hasnt find a way around smallball
pop is cute, pop is good, pop is smart, pop is God
He might be, but he probably isn't.
I would agree with most opinions that Red, Phil Jackson, and Pat Riley are essentially the top 3, although I must admit that I really don't know much about Red Auerbach's coaching style and skill as a leader, motivator, and x's and o's strategist.
As much as he's a drama queen, I have to believe Larry Brown is also one of the greatest coaches ever, simply because he won whereever he went except for the one year with the Knicks. He made it happen with lots of talent and with little talent, and he was always teaching.
That's four right there, and there are very good arguments for guys like Don Nelson as a non-conventionalist strategist, Chuck Daly as a master revolutionary, and Hubie Brown as a teacher. I would rank Pop favorably in this group after the top 4 mentioned. And, it would be a matter of taste who you would prefer. I do think if Pop were able to go deep in the playoffs without Tim Duncan, it would substantially increase the perception of him as a coach. Although, I don't think he is that concerned about his legacy individually as a coach.
he's top 10. not top 5
Agree with most of your list with the exception of Larry Brown, Bill Fitch? and Chuck Daly? ahead of Pop? U R Smokin.
Does that mean you believe Flip Saunders has done a great coaching job the last two years at Detroit? Honest and sincere question. The Pistons winning a great percentage on the road the last two years, is that a credit to Flip Saunders?
i just don't put larry brown that high. he won championships with the aba, ncaa, and nba, but the nba is the highest and he only won once. he can't stick with a team long enough to take them to the next level. even his championship came from taking over a ecf team. i'd put pop over bill and chuck too. he's had 11 teams, only 15 all-star appearances by players, and three championships. and i don't think he's done.
I think 2005 proved that Pop>>Brown.
Brown is a great coach...but his tendency to relocate and inability to sustain a motivating and strong relationship with his players over time, may be his downfall...something which Pop on the hand is great with.
Bill Fitch?
Chuck Daly?
There have been more than 5 coaches in the history of the NBA so I would say no.
So does 2006 prove Avery Johnson>>Pop?
Does that also mean the talent and skill of the 2005 Spurs = talent and skill of the 2005 Pistons? At the time, many if not the majority of Spurs fans thought it was going to be a 4-5 game series in favor of the Spurs between the two teams in the 2005 NBA Finals.
Uhhhh, ask Pop who he thinks is a better coach between himself and Larry Brown.
He would always say larry brown, due to him worshiping the ground he walks on.
Thats like asking Duncan whos the better teammate Parker or Manu.
Roster and coaching.
John Wooden was asked what was his best coaching year.
Surely he would say it was one of the undefeated Lew Alcindor - Billy Walton teams, right?
No. He said a team that was struggling below .500, had a rebirth and finished 16-10. Did not make the NCAA playoffs. Overachieved. Yep, that was his best year.
Pop and roster? Yeah he's won three but has had the cream years of Duncan Manu and Parker. Last year drops him out of any top 5 talk.
Phil J coach of Spurs from 2000-2006? 4 les minimum.
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