MVP Debate Rages On

[LEONARD]

So without using #wins, explain why Dirk is MVP based on 2007 regular season? Do the Dirk supporters think Billups should have won MVP last year? All Dirk-for-MVP supporters just got pwned.

Comparing regular season wins between the top western conf teams and the top eastern conf teams is like apples and oranges...

[Kobulingam]

so what is it then? what he does on the court of what his team does when he's not on the court?

What do you want? What are you asking? Are you asking for ONE criterion for picking an MVP? There exists no such thing.

I am telling you that on court performance matters the most, but how the team is affected when the player is not on the court also gives an indication of how much the team depends on said player. This includes time when the player is resting on bench, or injured. If the MVP was just about picking the best player on the team with the best regular season record, then we don't need this discussion as a computer can do that for us (except for maybe one human input when choice of best player on the chosen team is close).

The performance of the Suns minus Nash in the past two seasons really helped him get those MVP awards. Do you blame the voters for using this info?

[Kobulingam]

ever watched Nash try to play defense?

Yes. Nash is to Billups as Dirk is to Duncan. What's your point? Dirk plays PF and doesn't defend the paint very well. Dirk's defense is more important to his team because of the position he plays.

Nash helps his team more than Dirk does (taking into account all factors like defense). Simple as that.

EDIT:

And who is more clutch? Pwned.


EDIT2:

Nash pwned Dirk in 2 playoff intensity games between the two teams (super clutch Nash). Dirk choked like someone with a loose sphincter in those games.

[Kobulingam]

Comparing regular season wins between the top western conf teams and the top eastern conf teams is like apples and oranges...

I don't even know what you mean.

I am asking whether Billups deserved MVP last year because Detroit was pwning everybody. This year the Suns and Mavs are both 60+ win teams, so should we pick Dirk because #wins(Mavs) > #wins(Suns) ? Or is there some other factor? Explain.

[LEONARD]

I don't even know what you mean.

I am asking whether Billups deserved MVP last year because Detroit was pwning everybody. This year the Suns and Mavs are both 60+ win teams, so should we pick Dirk because #wins(Mavs) > #wins(Suns) ? Or is there some other factor? Explain.

"pwning" everybody in the east isn't the equivalent to doing it in the west...

[Kobulingam]

"pwning" everybody in the east isn't the equivalent to doing it in the west...

"People these days. Sheesh."

[td4mvp21]

"pwning" everybody in the east isn't the equivalent to doing it in the west...

They beat the West teams too, so your point doesn't really matter.

1-1 vs. Dallas
2-0 vs. San Antonio
2-0 vs. Phoenix
1-1 vs. Lakers
2-0 vs. Clippers
2-0 vs. Memphis

10-2 vs. last year's West elite

[himat]

You know, its funny T-Mac has gotten no love this year, he's putting up numbers comparable to Dirks, but no mention of his name.

Plus his team wins when he's in the lineup and loses when he's out of the lineup.

[Shank]

Plus his team wins when he's in the lineup and loses when he's out of the lineup.

And from what I hear, that's a huge arguing point for this debate.

[Kobulingam]

And from what I hear, that's a huge arguing point for this debate.

Not huge. Small. But big enough to put Nash > Dirk since both their teams have 60+ wins so it would dumb to use wins as a tiebreaker.

[monosylab1k]

Yes. Nash is to Billups as Dirk is to Duncan. What's your point? Dirk plays PF and doesn't defend the paint very well. Dirk's defense is more important to his team because of the position he plays.

i'd like that reiterated as Tony Parker goes flying by Nash every time down the court. That somehow PG's dont matter defensively.

and even your fellow Spurs buddies agree that Dirk plays much better defense than he used to. can't say the same for Nash. he's just as awful, if not worse, than he was in Dallas.

Nash helps his team more than Dirk does (taking into account all factors like defense).

LOL taking into account defense....right...

Nash pwned Dirk in 2 playoff intensity games between the two teams (super clutch Nash). Dirk choked like someone with a loose sphincter in those games.

Nash can own Dirk in all the playoff INTENSITY games for all i care. Because last time they met up in actual PLAYOFF games, Dirk was the one doing the pwning.

"oh, but they didn't have Amare"

exactly. Dirk is MVP.

[v2freak]

i don't even care or really want Dirk to win it. just anybody but Nash....please dear God ANYBODY but Nash...if he joins the ranks of Russell, Chamberlain, and Bird, that will be one of the biggest disgraces in the NBA.

Agreed. I don't think he should win it again for the 3rd time in a row. There are so many other deserving players out there

[Findog]

They are 3 and 0 without him this season, and another 3 and 0 when he played 17 minutes or less, so I dont know about that

That's a really small sample size -- they beat Denver on the road when they were missing Carmelo, they beat Sacramento sans Kevin Martin, and Minnesota without KG.

[dirk4mvp]

Yes. Nash is to Billups as Dirk is to Duncan. What's your point? Dirk plays PF and doesn't defend the paint very well. Dirk's defense is more important to his team because of the position he plays.

Nash helps his team more than Dirk does (taking into account all factors like defense). Simple as that.

EDIT:

And who is more clutch? Pwned.


EDIT2:

Nash pwned Dirk in 2 playoff intensity games between the two teams (super clutch Nash). Dirk choked like someone with a loose sphincter in those games.

Who did the pwning here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vy0kI4SMvo

[Texas_Ranger]

Dirk
Kobe
Duncan
James
Nash

[Findog]

Nash pwned Dirk in 2 playoff intensity games between the two teams (super clutch Nash). Dirk choked like someone with a loose sphincter in those games.

Playoff-intensity games? What the is that? Did you watch Game 6 of the Conference Finals last year? Now, I know that as a Spurs fan, you might have lost all interest in the playoffs after your team was eliminated at the hands of a superior team, but it would have been instructive if you had. Do you think Dirk was clutch in Game 7 in San Antonio? Did you watch Nash in Game 6 of the Conference Finals? If ever there was a time to be clutch and step it up, how about when your team is facing elimination on their own floor? Nash sucked in that game, Dirk was awesome.

As for "playoff intensity games," if you mean those games that are worthy of Kenny and Chuck and the Pussycat Dolls screeching "Right Now," the last time the Mavs and Suns met up before March 14th, Dirk nailed a game-winning jumper with Marion in his face at the buzzer. Does that qualify as choke or clutch?

My point is not to denigrate Nash and gloss over Dirk's failings. They've both been counted on by their teams to deliver and they've both succeeded more than they've failed. It's obvious you have the attention span of a child if all you can do is point to a REGULAR SEASON game here or there to back up your case. Great players have the ball in their hands at the end of games. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they don't. Dirk isn't afraid to take the last shot. If you want to be taken seriously, you can't selectively marshall evidence or ignore inconvenient facts that undercut your case. Damages your credibility and makes me call into question your basketball a en. Dirk has missed game-winning shots and free throws and he's made 'em too. I could give a about "playoff-intensity" games in March. Dirk showed he's got big brass ones last May-June. If you wanna throw the Finals in my face, it's fair to question D-Pussy being camped out at the free throw line if it's fair to question the Mavs' intestinal for ude.

I can hear the response now: "How about the Finals when Dirk missed that free throw?" Lemme ask you, what is Duncan's free throw percentage? How many free throws has Duncan missed in crunchtime situations? Would you call Duncan a choker? Wade missed two critical free throws in Game Six of the Finals but his team held on for the win. Guys miss free throws. It happens.

[LEONARD]

They beat the West teams too, so your point doesn't really matter.

1-1 vs. Dallas
2-0 vs. San Antonio
2-0 vs. Phoenix
1-1 vs. Lakers
2-0 vs. Clippers
2-0 vs. Memphis

10-2 vs. last year's West elite

I'm not saying that the Pistons last year weren't a great team...

but they get a bunch of games against HORRIBLE eastern teams...much more so than in the west. Winning 65 games in the west is more impressive than 65 games in the east. And that was the basis for my point (apples to orange).

Let's say that last year the Pistons won 66 games and the Suns won 64. The "best player on the team with the best record" argument shouldn't apply because the Pistons won a couple more games in the weaker conf. You could still argue that the Pistons were the best regular season team because of their record against the top teams in the league, but not by just looking at record (in my opinion).

[whottt]

Ehhh...Dirk deserves it.

He's the best player on the team with far and away the best record, and his numbers are nice and easily MVP level....and it's not like he plays with more All Stars than Nash and Duncan.


I'd say he's the no brainer choice and history is on his side as well.

[whottt]

Although, I agree with the sentiment still that Nash makes his teamates better than anyone. Forget his D...the Suns completely suck when he's on the bench.

Still...the Mavs record is so good, there's just no way you can pass Dirk over this year.

I don't think LeBron and Kobe's teams have been good enough...but there is a precedent for giving it to League Darlings even when they are on a crappy team...they are the only ones with a shot at winning it besides Dirk IMO.



Duncan def isn't winning it, although I do think he has a nice case for DPOY this year....

[mathbzh]

I still don't understand how you can compare a PG to a PF but I must be stupid

I vote for Dirk... But I don't think he is really better than the others.

[LEONARD]

3 of the voters released their picks publically...2 were for Nash, 1 was for Dirk. (source: The Ticket in Dallas...I don't remember the voter's names)

[DarrinS]

Who cares who the regular season MVP is. That award has been a curse for many teams.


I'd much rather have a finals MVP on my team.

[Shank]

3 of the voters released their picks publically...2 were for Nash, 1 was for Dirk. (source: The Ticket in Dallas...I don't remember the voter's names)

Source: Sports Illustrated's website.

We all know the Ticket has been worthless all week.

[mardigan]

And from what I hear, that's a huge arguing point for this debate.

Im just saying that T-Mac getting his team to win 50 plus games while Yao missed 33 and the next best player on the roster is probably Head or Battier is pretty impressive, and I would say MVP worthy

[LEONARD]

Source: Sports Illustrated's website.

We all know the Ticket has been worthless all week.

The Ticket was my source...I didn't mean they were digging up info...

and Compound week is f'n genius...