The Spurs will get a taste of what the Lakers have gone thru all season.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's quite clear that statistics are insufficient to answer his qualitative argument.

Now, his argument is likely bull , but stat-whoring and copping some bad-ass sports geek at ude isn't going to get you anything more than some s.

(OK, he's since gotten himself into trying to support his argument quan atively, which you and armbchang have rightly shot down)

I agree that statistics don't always tell the story. You're certainly right that the better qualitative analysis would involve the development of a slew of facts that aren't readily ascertainable for me.

But in a rather simplified way, it struck me as wholly ridiculous to argue that Kobe could lead the league in FTA and, yet, not get any calls.

[Cry Havoc]

If you want to go into specifics and game by games, I will go into specifics and game by games.
I went through each and every single game Kobe played in in the 2006-07 season, as well as the statistics of all the players, and the following are the findings:

Of the 441 players, there were 195,037 FGA, and 63,834 FTA, which means that for every 3 shots that were taken, there was about FTA. I converted this into a percentage, and it comes out to 33%, calling it FTA/FGA (not very creative, I know).
I then took the top 50 scorers in the NBA, and it gave me a 38% for the FTA/FGA.
The top 20 scorers have the FTA/FGA at 42%,
And the top 10 scorers is 40%.
It does show that top scorers get more FTs, which isn’t a surprise.
I then used these numbers to look at a game to game situation for Kobe.
Out of the 77 games that Kobe played, he had a higher FTA/FGA number than the average for the top 10 scorers 46 times, this means that 60% of the time, Kobe shot more FTA than an average top 10 scorer (including Kobe himself) using FGA as a predictor.
For top 20 scorers, it’s 43 times, or 56%.
For Top 50 scorers, it’s 49 times, or 64%.
And compared to the league average, it’s 57 times, or 74% of the time.

I also compared Kobe’s FTA/FGA to other top players in the league, of the:

Top 10 scorers, Kobe ranks #3
Top 20 scorers, Kobe ranks #8
Top 50 scorers, Kobe ranks #14
All players, Kobe ranks 97 out of 441.

The numbers consistently shows that Kobe gets his fare shake. In other words, you were way off base in saying that Kobe does not get calls.

Amazing work. Major props. I think the argument for Kobe not getting FTs ends with that.

[FromWayDowntown]

If you want to go into specifics and game by games, I will go into specifics and game by games.
I went through each and every single game Kobe played in in the 2006-07 season, as well as the statistics of all the players, and the following are the findings:

Of the 441 players, there were 195,037 FGA, and 63,834 FTA, which means that for every 3 shots that were taken, there was about FTA. I converted this into a percentage, and it comes out to 33%, calling it FTA/FGA (not very creative, I know).
I then took the top 50 scorers in the NBA, and it gave me a 38% for the FTA/FGA.
The top 20 scorers have the FTA/FGA at 42%,
And the top 10 scorers is 40%.
It does show that top scorers get more FTs, which isn’t a surprise.
I then used these numbers to look at a game to game situation for Kobe.
Out of the 77 games that Kobe played, he had a higher FTA/FGA number than the average for the top 10 scorers 46 times, this means that 60% of the time, Kobe shot more FTA than an average top 10 scorer (including Kobe himself) using FGA as a predictor.
For top 20 scorers, it’s 43 times, or 56%.
For Top 50 scorers, it’s 49 times, or 64%.
And compared to the league average, it’s 57 times, or 74% of the time.

I also compared Kobe’s FTA/FGA to other top players in the league, of the:

Top 10 scorers, Kobe ranks #3
Top 20 scorers, Kobe ranks #8
Top 50 scorers, Kobe ranks #14
All players, Kobe ranks 97 out of 441.

The numbers consistently shows that Kobe gets his fare shake. In other words, you were way off base in saying that Kobe does not get calls.

The numbers are certainly interesting, though like Lanier's criticism of our previous use of raw numbers, I'm not sure that even a fairly advanced metric like this one can really tell the story about whether a guy's FTA are congruent with what his expected FTA would be. I'd think that to get that number, you'd have to examine something like the number of fouls called in particular situations on the floor, compare that with a player's activities on the floor, and derive some sort of measurement from that.

One thing that gets me about comparing FGA to FTA is that it necessarily fails to account for the fact that not every FTA can be correlated to the act of shooting the basketball. The quan ative connection, I think, would require parsing the number of fouls called in the act from fouls that are called for other things (loose-ball fouls against a team that is already in the penalty, for example) that result in FTA.

[ambchang]

^ Definitely not going to argue with this, I think using FGA to predict FTA is essentially flawed especially for parsing the top FT shooters in the game, but since this is the criteria outlined by LakeShow, I used it.
There is some merit to the method though, and gives a very rough cut, easy way to look at it. If Kobe was consistently getting about the numbers of FTA based on his FGA when compared to an average NBA player, I would think that is a legitimate case of saying Kobe does not get the respect of the refs, because he is, afterall, one of the premiere slashers in the game, but the numbers clearly shows that he gets a decent number of FTs.
Now if there is a hypothetical player who gets fouled every single time he touches the ball, and the refs only call 60% of the time, his FTA/FGA is not going to reflect that, but I doubt such a player exists.
All in all, every single fan thinks his/her superstar gets shafted.

[Cry Havoc]

^ Definitely not going to argue with this, I think using FGA to predict FTA is essentially flawed especially for parsing the top FT shooters in the game, but since this is the criteria outlined by LakeShow, I used it.
There is some merit to the method though, and gives a very rough cut, easy way to look at it. If Kobe was consistently getting about the numbers of FTA based on his FGA when compared to an average NBA player, I would think that is a legitimate case of saying Kobe does not get the respect of the refs, because he is, afterall, one of the premiere slashers in the game, but the numbers clearly shows that he gets a decent number of FTs.
Now if there is a hypothetical player who gets fouled every single time he touches the ball, and the refs only call 60% of the time, his FTA/FGA is not going to reflect that, but I doubt such a player exists.
All in all, every single fan thinks his/her superstar gets shafted.

Duncan doesn't get shafted. Sometimes he doesn't get the calls he should, and once in a while he'll get tossed for... you know... laughing at Bowen or Mike. Other than that I think he usually gets the right calls. Except in the Dallas series last year.*

EVERY player gets shafted from time to time. Kobe's problem is that now he has the rep. of a fairly dirty player, and he intentionally and obviously tries to draw contact even if the play has passed him by. Wade does the same, but he hasn't drawn the ire of the refs with several dirty plays which he later criticized them for calling.

Kobe gets more than his share of calls.




*Was not, is not, and will never be an excuse for losing. We did that ourselves.

[Sec24Row7]

I will say this,

Kobe's FT/WGR (White Girl Raped) PG avg went way up this year, so good for him.

[Obstructed_View]

The officials will have a new whipping boy in the playoffs. You know that he will not get any calls and it will be frustrating for you to see him have to go thru bull like that. Tim Duncan will take the place of Kobe Bryant, as a superstar who can't buy a call. Good luck with that!

Laker fans is so DUMB!

[LakeShow]

Laker fans is so DUMB!

this coming from an idiot who stated this.

Olajuwon cared about basketball during the western conference finals, and that was only because he felt personally slighted, not because he gave a about basketball, the city of Houston, or his teammates. Hakeem was, for once in his career, brilliant in that series, and David indeed played about as well as anyone could have against him. Hakeem salvaged his career in that series, as he would probably otherwise have been remembered as a seven foot Gilbert Arenas.

[cheguevara]

shouldn't you be concentrating on your team's chances to win it all? oh wait... nevermind

[Obstructed_View]

this coming from an idiot who stated this.

Yet it's still smarter than anything you have to offer. What's that say about you?

[LakerLanny]

I will say this,

Kobe's FT/WGR (White Girl Raped) PG avg went way up this year, so good for him.

Do you honestly believe the face of the NBA has to rape chicks with the spooge of 3 guys already on them to get laid?

From all accounts, said ho attached herself to our young hero within literally minutes of him entering the hotel. Minutes after that, he entered her.

You got to be kidding me if you think Kobe needs to rape a chick who already had sex with 3 other guys in the last 24 hours prior. That makes my lost weekends attending Grateful Dead shows look tame in comparison! (Annie I haven't forgotten you!)

[Man In Black]

I'm just curious if LL agrees with the ambchang's math, that is if he can comprehend it.

oh and this beauty right here:

From all accounts, said ho attached herself to our young hero within literally minutes of him entering the hotel. Minutes after that, he entered her.

Said young hero chose UNWISELY turning himself into the villian with one "entry" move.

[gospursgojas]

Well those two fouls where Manu and Marko Jaric's Face fouled his arm were obvioulsy examples of the NBA picking on Kobe

[Lakerhater1]

The officials will have a new whipping boy in the playoffs. You know that he will not get any calls and it will be frustrating for you to see him have to go thru bull like that. Tim Duncan will take the place of Kobe Bryant, as a superstar who can't buy a call. Good luck with that!

Boo in' hoo!

[LakeShow]

Yet it's still smarter than anything you have to offer. What's that say about you?

Well partner, I hate to be the one to tell you, but it wasn't any intelligence in that post! But that's another topic all together.

[LakeShow]

If you want to go into specifics and game by games, I will go into specifics and game by games.
I went through each and every single game Kobe played in in the 2006-07 season, as well as the statistics of all the players, and the following are the findings:

Of the 441 players, there were 195,037 FGA, and 63,834 FTA, which means that for every 3 shots that were taken, there was about FTA. I converted this into a percentage, and it comes out to 33%, calling it FTA/FGA (not very creative, I know).
I then took the top 50 scorers in the NBA, and it gave me a 38% for the FTA/FGA.
The top 20 scorers have the FTA/FGA at 42%,
And the top 10 scorers is 40%.
It does show that top scorers get more FTs, which isn’t a surprise.
I then used these numbers to look at a game to game situation for Kobe.
Out of the 77 games that Kobe played, he had a higher FTA/FGA number than the average for the top 10 scorers 46 times, this means that 60% of the time, Kobe shot more FTA than an average top 10 scorer (including Kobe himself) using FGA as a predictor.
For top 20 scorers, it’s 43 times, or 56%.
For Top 50 scorers, it’s 49 times, or 64%.
And compared to the league average, it’s 57 times, or 74% of the time.

I also compared Kobe’s FTA/FGA to other top players in the league, of the:

Top 10 scorers, Kobe ranks #3
Top 20 scorers, Kobe ranks #8
Top 50 scorers, Kobe ranks #14
All players, Kobe ranks 97 out of 441.

The numbers consistently shows that Kobe gets his fare shake. In other words, you were way off base in saying that Kobe does not get calls.

I will stipulate that to say that Kobe gets no calls would be wrong. In fact he has gotten calls in some games this season. but FWD, brought up a good point. Kobe shoots all freethrows for the Lakers, thats technicals, illegal defense and other situations should be included. How many of those are those type of situations?

[FromWayDowntown]

I will stipulate that to say that Kobe gets no calls would be wrong. In fact he has gotten calls in some games this season.

Then why start this thread?

[td4mvp21]

Kobe gets his fair share of calls. Maybe you should concentrate on the ty play of his teammates rather than what calls he doesn't get. That might help explain why you lost 40 games.

[LakeShow]

Kobe gets his fair share of calls. Maybe you should concentrate on the ty play of his teammates rather than what calls he doesn't get. That might help explain why you lost 40 games.

We lost 40 games because of injuries.

[td4mvp21]

We lost 40 games because of injuries.

Every team has injuries during the regular season...in the 03-04 and 04-05 season, the Spurs lost Duncan for significant amounts of games. The anchor of everything we do-offensive and defensive. Yet we still won over 55 games because the rest of our cast stepped up...and not all of them were that good either. Parker and Ginobili weren't the players they are now. Our supporting players weren't stellar either but they did what they had to. So why didn't the Lakers supporting cast step up?

[exstatic]

We lost 40 games because of injuries.

Lakers lost 40 games because they aren't very ing good. LA played their worst ball after everyone was back. They damn near made it B2B no playoff years.

[LakeShow]

Every team has injuries during the regular season...in the 03-04 and 04-05 season, the Spurs lost Duncan for significant amounts of games. The anchor of everything we do-offensive and defensive. Yet we still won over 55 games because the rest of our cast stepped up...and not all of them were that good either. Parker and Ginobili weren't the players they are now. Our supporting players weren't stellar either but they did what they had to. So why didn't the Lakers supporting cast step up?

Because the supporting cast was injured as well.

[LakeShow]

Lakers lost 40 games because they aren't very ing good. LA played their worst ball after everyone was back. They damn near made it B2B no playoff years.

what does that say for your team? When healthy the Lakers handled the spurs quite easily.

[mardigan]

what does that say for your team? When healthy the Lakers handled the spurs quite easily.

I wouldnt call 11 combined points easily. I will say that before they lost Odom, Brown, Walton and Radmonovic they looked pretty damn good as a team. Its pretty hard to get everyone back on the same page after you have had so many key injurys

[td4mvp21]

what does that say for your team? When healthy the Lakers handled the spurs quite easily.

Uhh...I think you beat us when we were paying the test basketball of the season. So kudos to you.

Because the supporting cast was injured as well.

Not all at the same time. So why didn't the available ones step up? Still want an answer. Oh, that's right, it's because the Lakers suck ass.