Spurs vs. Nuggets Game 2 - Grades

[xamila rey]

i would like to see Manu penetrating more oftern
and either score or get in the FT line.
i get the sense that he is looking for the free man all the time,
instead of attacking the rim and see what happens..
Hopefully he got some confidence back and we see him playing more agressive in Denver.

[Obstructed_View]

What's annoying about Parker is that on a turnover or long rebound he pulls up when he's got two defenders in front of him, which allows the shot blockers to set up. Then when he penetrates he gets swatted. He's also been clubbed to the ground a couple of times; he'll be even less effective if he gets hurt.

Here's another thing the Spurs haven't been doing, which drives me nuts: When one Spur goes to the hoop both the bigs collapse on him, yet nobody else goes to the front of the rim so the shooter has to try to score on two shot blockers. Anyone else notice that?

[gilmor]

Uh oh, you'll be labeled a Ginobili hater like me

TPark, there is a difference between you and LJ.. Whereas LJ brings solid take and analysis every time, all you do is about Manu and bring some stupid takes that do no more than instigate other to pound on you. That's why you suck and need to GTFO!!

[T Park]

That's why you suck and need to GTFO!!

Look son, ive been posting here since day 1, a little piss ant like you aint gonna run me out.

Second, I say pretty much the same thing LJ says.

LJ and me agree he was playing unagressive and soft in the first half and ever since after the Horry block, he played like the REAL Ginobili.

Suck it up Gilmor Girl.

[gilmor]

Look son, ive been posting here since day 1, a little piss ant like you aint gonna run me out.

Second, I say pretty much the same thing LJ says.

LJ and me agree he was playing unagressive and soft in the first half and ever since after the Horry block, he played like the REAL Ginobili.

Suck it up Gilmor Girl.

Hey Fat , let me you ask you this question.. Since you quit on Spurs a year ago, why do you return to this forum? I remembered very well that you were done with Spurs, why come back at all?

[aaronstampler]

The difference between Parker and Manu for TPark is simple: Any shot Manu misses is a horrible mistake. Any assist he makes is "him not being aggressive." Because you know, passing is a stupid basketball play. Any turnover he makes is him just sucking ass.


Any shot Parker takes, hit or miss and any turnover he makes is "him being aggressive."

[aaronstampler]

I like that it took an LJ grade post to convince TPark that Tony didn't play very well yesterday. Only 24 hours later than it took the rest of us who were actually watching the game.

[T Park]

Hey Fat , let me you ask you this question.. Since you quit on Spurs a year ago, why do you return to this forum? I remembered very well that you were done with Spurs, why come back at all?

It was two years ago.

And because I was asked to stay.

Any other questions kiddo?

The difference between Parker and Manu for TPark is simple: Any shot Manu misses is a horrible mistake. Any assist he makes is "him not being aggressive." Because you know, passing is a stupid basketball play. Any turnover he makes is him just sucking ass.

Not even close, but thanks for playin smartass.

I like that it took an LJ grade post to convince TPark that Tony didn't play very well yesterday. Only 24 hours later than it took the rest of us who were actually watching the game.

I don't remember saying Parker was playing great.


The reason i bag on Ginobili so much is because he can do so much more, but his unagressiveness leaves me dissapointed.

He is the second option and the clutchest player on this team, but him being unagressive kills the team.

Others agreed with me in that he was unagressive up until the Horry block.

[Obstructed_View]

Ever occur to anyone that the guys that are more critical of one player probably like that player more and expect more from him, while they have given up on relying on the other?

[aaronstampler]

Ever occur to anyone that the guys that are more critical of one player probably like that player more and expect more from him, while they have given up on relying on the other?

I tell people this all the time about Tony. When I get on him about not passing it's because I know he can. I don't buy this "he doesn't have court vision" nonsense. Fooey. He has as much as almost any PG except Nash and Kidd.

I seen the boy pass. He had 12 assists in one half against the Clips this year.

[aaronstampler]

The reason i bag on Ginobili so much is because he can do so much more, but his unagressiveness leaves me dissapointed.

He is the second option and the clutchest player on this team, but him being unagressive kills the team.

Others agreed with me in that he was unagressive up until the Horry block.[/QUOTE]

1. He can't do if he doesn't have the ball, and for like 80% of the first half the offense ran pretty much through Tim and Tony.

2. I'm not gonna rip anybody for getting assists.

3. I like to think of him as "the second option" too, but it's mostly wishful thinking. He hasn't ever been that. Tony always averages way more shots. He's either the first option, when he's playing with scrubs, or he's 3rd, if he's out there with Tim and Tony.

The only time he's ever a true 2nd option would be either a 4th quarter of a tight playoff game or if Tony is really having a tough game.

Unfortunately, some people confuse 2nd best player with 2nd option.

[Obstructed_View]

I tell people this all the time about Tony. When I get on him about not passing it's because I know he can. I don't buy this "he doesn't have court vision" nonsense. Fooey. He has as much as almost any PG except Nash and Kidd.

I seen the boy pass. He had 12 assists in one half against the Clips this year.

Yeah, I seriously doubt there are many Spurs fans who are rooting for a guy on the team to do bad so they can come in here and slam on him. There might be guys who are only rooting for the Spurs because one of their countrymen is on the roster. Those folks make themselves visible pretty quickly.

[Kori Ellis]

1. He can't do if he doesn't have the ball, and for like 80% of the first half the offense ran pretty much through Tim and Tony.

2. I'm not gonna rip anybody for getting assists.

3. I like to think of him as "the second option" too, but it's mostly wishful thinking. He hasn't ever been that. Tony always averages way more shots. He's either the first option, when he's playing with scrubs, or he's 3rd, if he's out there with Tim and Tony.

The only time he's ever a true 2nd option would be either a 4th quarter of a tight playoff game or if Tony is really having a tough game.

Unfortunately, some people confuse 2nd best player with 2nd option.

Though I agree with you saying Manu is usually not being the second option when he's on the floor with Tim and Tony. Tony doesn't average WAY more shots than Manu. On the season, Manu averaged 11.3 shots per game in 27.5 minutes. Tony averaged 14.3 shots per game in 32.5 minutes.

That means Manu shot .41 field goals per minute and Tony shot .44 field goals per minute.

Factor in Manu getting to the line more than Tony and it figures that Manu shoots pretty much the same amount per minute on the floor as Tony does.

Anyway, I'm not arguing any of your points other than "Tony shoots WAY more than Manu". Simply not true.

[timvp]

3. I like to think of him as "the second option" too, but it's mostly wishful thinking. He hasn't ever been that. Tony always averages way more shots.

Not true.

If you factor in free throws as attempted shots (FTA/2), Manu shoots more per minute than Tony does.

FGA per 40 minutes
Tim Duncan - 20.8
Manu Ginobili - 20.2
Tony Parker - 20.1

[aaronstampler]

Anyway, I'm not arguing any of your points other than "Tony shoots WAY more than Manu". Simply not true.[/QUOTE]


That's fair. But Manu takes a big chunk of his shots when he's playing with the scrubs and he's the first option. When he plays with Tim and Tony, he doesn't get to shoot a whole lot.

[aaronstampler]

I never said anything per minute this or anything. I just said Tony shoots more and he always has. It's fairly rare to see a game where Manu has more shots attempted on the box score than Tony.

[timvp]

FGA Per 40 Minutes - 2005 Playoffs
Manu Ginobili - 19.5
Tony Parker - 19.0

Was he "playing with scrubs" during this playoff run too?

[Kori Ellis]

I never said anything per minute this or anything. I just said Tony shoots more and he always has. It's fairly rare to see a game where Manu has more shots attempted on the box score than Tony.

Well, I think you have to consider per minute for everything with Manu. He doesn't play as much as Tim and Tony. And even if you don't want to talk about per minute, for most of the season, Manu was shooting around 12 FGA and Tony/Tim each around 14 FGA. So factoring in FT's, there's not much difference between Tony and Manu's shot attempts, per minute or not.

[timvp]

I never said anything per minute this or anything. I just said Tony shoots more and he always has. It's fairly rare to see a game where Manu has more shots attempted on the box score than Tony.

Uh yeah because Manu averages like 80% of the minutes Tony averages. You expect Manu to average more attempts in less minutes to be considered the second option?

[BeerIsGood!]

The only thing I care about is that the ball is going to the open man and that the offense is aggressive and creating solid scoring chances that are converted at a high percentage due to the quality of the shots. As to who is actually shooting the ball - doesn't matter.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm bowing out of this thread. I can't waste my 50,000th post here.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

I'm bowing out of this thread. I can't waste my 50,000th post here.

True.

[timvp]

It's amazing how Manu is always the victim and never responsible for his own play. If he isn't scoring, it's because no one was passing it to him. If he's not playing defense, it's because the matchups were bad. If he's not passing the ball well, it's because everyone else was missing shots. If he's not being aggressive, it's because the players around him aren't good enough.

I've never seen a Spur in my history of Spurs fandom who is as untouchable as Manu.

[aaronstampler]

Not true.

If you factor in free throws as attempted shots (FTA/2), Manu shoots more per minute than Tony does.

FGA per 40 minutes
Tim Duncan - 20.8
Manu Ginobili - 20.2
Tony Parker - 20.1

Your numbers are wrong.

I've got 20.3 for Tony. 1096 + 175 (350/2) = 1,271/2,503 mins = .508 x 40 minutes = 20.31.

854 +186 (372/2) = 1040/2064 = .504 x 40 = 20.15

Or you could just simplify it and look at it my way. Tony took 1,096 shots, Manu took 854. That's 242 shots, a bit more than 3 a game.

If only there was some statistic where you could see how many shots a player averages per game. Alas.

[aaronstampler]

It's amazing how Manu is always the victim and never responsible for his own play. If he isn't scoring, it's because no one was passing it to him. If he's not playing defense, it's because the matchups were bad. If he's not passing the ball well, it's because everyone else was missing shots. If he's not being aggressive, it's because the players around him aren't good enough.

I've never seen a Spur in my history of Spurs fandom who is as untouchable as Manu.

The sooner off you realize that Tim and Manu have immunity for life, the happier you'll be. Tony's not there yet. Perhaps one day. ::knocks on wood::